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Dorne is renowned for having their sand-horses and their special recurved bows. This is why Dorne is supposed to use hit'n run tactics with horse archers (the imported the doble curved bow to Westeros) and mounted lancers.

Well Dorne is known for its excessive use of spears. Yes they have horse archers, but most of their forces were spear oriented. Dorne also uses the longbow, because several longbows are refered to as being Dornish yew in the books.

To me Dorne had a Moorish unit type for the Sandy Dorne, and a more traditional European background for the Stony Dorne units. But that was just my interpretation.

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Aren't the Tully colors red and blue? Maybe you could use the Russians instead of the French as a base for the Tully's. I'm pretty sure the Russian colors are red and blue in Medieval 2.

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Greyjoys should definitely have longbowmen. Theon was an excellent archer and I think they use bows quite a lot (for example when they ambushed young Tallhart). Also I think if they have no cavalry they should have at least some good missile unit. Exclude Tyrells and Martells.

House Greyjoy will be one of the harder factions to play since they lack cavalry and strong spear units. Theon is in my opinion an exceptional 'ironman' since he received his weapon training in Winterfell. It still stands though that the ironmen counted archers among their ranks (I believe your reference to ACOK is correct). For gameplay purposes they really need some ranged units. I will give them the 'Norse Archers' units (like Inda proposed). Their range can be adjusted so it matches the longbowmen range.

IMO, the Reach has the heaviest cavalry of Westeros (house Arryn has a heavy one too) while Iberian (Spanish and Portuguese) medieval armies hadn't that heavy cavalry. They were more like a mix between arabish and european ones as result of being mixed for around 700 years. So on, the Spanish yellow&red colour pattern of the game would suit good for Dorne banners. However, those Iberian armies used more infantry than cavalry and Dorne should have really few infantrymen.

Dorne is renowned for having their sand-horses and their special recurved bows. This is why Dorne is supposed to use hit'n run tactics with horse archers (the imported the doble curved bow to Westeros) and mounted lancers.

Spain = Renly and Moors = Martell. I have given the Tyrells the most powerful unit and heavily armoured cavalry unit in the game. They will only be able to build it in Oldtown and only Tyrell can recruit them. For Arryn, I don't have anything special for them but I'll buff up the stats of their cavalry a bit.

About longbowmen, neither Iberian armies nor arabish ones used it cause there weren't longbows (like english ones) in Iberic Peninsulae, and if they had, longbows hardly could be fired from horseback. Dornish army style (again, light but fast units) needs a good ranged infantry unit (IMO), but crossbows have a slow fire rate. So, would it be possible to create a unit called something like "Dornish archers" with same stats of longbowmen?

Dorne should have good archers, that's true. I haven't done their unit roster yet because the Moorish roster is a mess. The range of the archers can be adjusted, that's no problem but finding a unit that resembles a Dornish archer regiment is. For horse archers I can give them Mamluk Archers (Egypt), Sipahis (Turks), Turkomans or Turkish Horse Archers. Which one would fit the role as Dornish horse archer best? (Stats don't matter but graphics do).

But I think that a faction without cavalry and bows (even if the had crossbows) would be really hard to fight with only javelineers (even if they were Iberian almogavars). Instead of giving them longbows, you could give them that Danish unit (nordic archers?)... it isn't as good as longbowmen at ranged attacks but still pack a punch for melee.
The Ironmen will have good axemen (only recruitable in the Iron Islands), a very small variety of archers and some generic units like spear militia. No knights except for the general's bodyguard. Yeah, it will not be easy to play as them. And I haven't even added in religion which would make it even more harder, hehe.

Aren't the Tully colors red and blue? Maybe you could use the Russians instead of the French as a base for the Tully's. I'm pretty sure the Russian colors are red and blue in Medieval 2.

Problem is that I would need to delete the entire Russian roster, change their faction religion, make a lot of extra changes in modelsdb and the voices would be russian as well (don't know yet how to change that). Right now I'll let it be as it is... wait... maybe I could just copy/paste the russian strat model skins over the french ones. That could work. Thanks for the suggestion.

The map is done for 95% I think. Dorne was a pain in the *ss to make but eventually I'm kinda pleased with result. Martell's family tree, religion, buildings, generals, etc. are all done (except the traits). The Martell and Joffrey battle map banners are also finished (took me quite some time). Diplomacy is ready but the faction standings could use a bit of finishing up.

Yesterday I was playing as Joffrey and it was fun to attack Bitterbridge and slaughter Willas Tyrell and Horas Redwyne (see pic). And then I invaded the Stormlands and slew Renly when he sallied forth. It's amusing to see the campaign come to life and I can only wonder what will happen when I place the starting armies of the books and incorporate the upgraded AI.

Joffrey army versus Tyrell one

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Just because longbows might be made of Dornish yew doesn't actually mean Dornishmen use longbows. It just means that people who do use longbows like having them made of Dornish yew. Note that Spanish yew was popular for longbows made in England, even at times when Spain didn't really use longbows to any real degree (this, BTW, is obviously where George got the idea for Dornish yew as being the wood of choice -- Spanish yew grows straighter and taller than English yew, possibly because of subspecies issues, or possibly because of the drier climate).

That said, I imagine there are Dornish who'd use a longbow, particularly among the stony Dornish, but I don't expect it'd be common.

Dorne's horse should have almost nothing really heavy (ala knights in full plate). The stony Dornishmen were raiders and reavers, and likely adapted to attacking quick and fast. Horse archers should me somewhat less common than cavalry with throwing spears/javelins, I expect. The latter would probably require less training and cost (composite bows were, really, high technology).

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I'll fire up Medieval 2 tonight and check out the Moor units again. What kind of "look" were you going for? I'm guessing less of the middle eastern facial hair style and more of a clean cut look.

Also, one aspect I'm curious about is the pre-battle speeches. How is that done on the backend? I imagine they're "built" based on several possible lines that are chosen based on general traits/enemy. Are they easy to modify/use? I think it would be really neat to have some westeros flavor in the battle speeches.

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Just because longbows might be made of Dornish yew doesn't actually mean Dornishmen use longbows. It just means that people who do use longbows like having them made of Dornish yew.

I didn't mean Dorne had to use longbows, just a good archer unit. I propossed longbowmen cause they are the best archer unit. Something like the "norse archers" could be done here. Dornishmen don't use longbows, but I think they use double recurved ones (sorry, don't know the exact name in English). So, a unit could be created and given some stats to fit those light archers with recurved bows.

Dorne's horse should have almost nothing really heavy (ala knights in full plate). The stony Dornishmen were raiders and reavers, and likely adapted to attacking quick and fast. Horse archers should me somewhat less common than cavalry with throwing spears/javelins, I expect. The latter would probably require less training and cost (composite bows were, really, high technology).

Those Dornish sand-horses remind me a lot the "Andalucia" ones (Spanish horses wich came from Muslim ones) or the Arabish ones. Back to topic, this is what I tried to say: Dorne shouldn't have heavy cavalry (full plate knights).

Why don't give Iberian light cavalry ("riders" unit, those mounted javelineers) to stony Dornishmen and Arabish cavalry (horsearchers) to sand Dornishmen? After all, a horsearcher doesn't need a composite bow, a shortbow is enough (horsearhcers units are more nasty skirmishers than a heavy firepower unit).

About their look. I have no idea. I think I read somewhere that Dornishmen used Bronze scaled armor and conical half-helms (covering half head and chainmail protecting the neck and ears)? Spahi wore chainmail if my memory doesn't betray me. The chapter about Oberyn&Gregor duel could bring some light.

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Well then, first post after my long (long...) hiatus. First off, I'm really, really glad that the mod is back in action, and even gladder that progress seems to be going so well. I'm more than willing to keep going on my summaries if you still need that done, and any other clerical work as well. This time, I hope, it actually gets done.

Expect summmaries for Lannister and Greyjoy within a day or two, and then one every couple of days after that, as long as things keep on rolling. I'm also perfectly happy to rewrite any unit descriptions that may need to be done, or anything else along those lines.

Also, in keeping with the way things are portrayed in the books, it may be a good idea to set up some events based on character death, particularly in the case of Renly and Stannis. Having Renly's faction break off into Stannis or vice versa when said leader dies isn't particularly difficult, IIRC. Might also be good to have Jofffrey/Lannisters work the same way.

Also: Realistically, if Dorne is giving you trouble, leave it out of the first release. I don't think anyone here is expecting (or even wanting) a full-blown, one release mod. Give us the basics so we can get to work on balance and bug chasing, then expand from there.

Keep up the good work!

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I had another idea......... :stunned:

I was wondering about the possibility of adding some religous fanatics to the game in the form of drowned men/ sparrows. Just a thought.

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I had another idea......... :stunned:

I was wondering about the possibility of adding some religous fanatics to the game in the form of drowned men/ sparrows. Just a thought.

I'm not sure how they would work. They couldn't really be rebels, because that doesn't really make sense. They can't act like heretics because that doesn't make a lot of sense either. I guess they could act like region-specific inquisitors.

Still, it probably makes more sense to work on the basics, and then expand on things like the Sparrows etc later on.

As for Dornish cavalry, you'd probably want to use Grenadine Lancers or Arab Cavalry. The Dismounted Arab Cavalry also seem like a solid unit for Dorne...those long spears would look good with the Sun and Spear banner.

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I'll fire up Medieval 2 tonight and check out the Moor units again. What kind of "look" were you going for? I'm guessing less of the middle eastern facial hair style and more of a clean cut look.

I'm not an expert on Dornish clothing or armour. They haven't got much description time in the books and I don't know how representative Oberyn's outfit is. You might want to download the FUSIL file. It's a .pdf with all the units and stats of the various factions. This way you don't have to run M2TW every time you want to check a unit out (although you still need to do that if you want the battle map image).

http://files.filefront.com/the+FUSIL+v12/;...;/fileinfo.html

Expect summmaries for Lannister and Greyjoy within a day or two, and then one every couple of days after that, as long as things keep on rolling. I'm also perfectly happy to rewrite any unit descriptions that may need to be done, or anything else along those lines.

Hey Daedalus, thanks for the offer. Since I didn't get a fast reply earlier on I enlisted another guy who has written all the faction descriptions. I don't need any help in that regard anymore but I will require a lot of descriptions for the units (especially the Dornish ones). But first I'll need to know of which units their roster will be comprised of.

Also: Realistically, if Dorne is giving you trouble, leave it out of the first release. I don't think anyone here is expecting (or even wanting) a full-blown, one release mod. Give us the basics so we can get to work on balance and bug chasing, then expand from there.

That was my initial plan but I decided to give it a go and now it's already incorporated. The map didn't feel right without them because I wanted the Tyrell-Martell animosity to be a part of the game.

lso, in keeping with the way things are portrayed in the books, it may be a good idea to set up some events based on character death, particularly in the case of Renly and Stannis. Having Renly's faction break off into Stannis or vice versa when said leader dies isn't particularly difficult, IIRC. Might also be good to have Jofffrey/Lannisters work the same way.

I will leave that out for the first release. I think it would require a lot of difficult scripting and so forth.

Also, I'm sad to announce that progress will stall on the mod for the next weeks. I have two papers to hand in soon and afterwards my dreaded exams arrive. Real life takes precedence of course (although I'd rather work on the mod). When that's over I'll return to modding once again. Even if I lose my motivation I'll just upload the whole thing to filefront and then it's up to you to do with it what you like. However that's not the case for now, don't despair. ;-)

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I think we can wait a few more weeks, considering how long there was no progress being made (i.e. the last half year, give or take some amount of months).

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I'm not sure how they would work. They couldn't really be rebels, because that doesn't really make sense. They can't act like heretics because that doesn't make a lot of sense either. I guess they could act like region-specific inquisitors.

They are not rebels, at least for the Greyjoy's. The drowned men would be a part of the normal faction roster.

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Didn't drowned men only use wooden items taken from the beaches? I think 60 unarmored men with staffs don't make a good unit.

Good idea that one about Sparrows, they could spread as rebels and move towards the big cities as did in the novels. So on, would be possible to replace rebel armies' label by "Broken men" one?

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Didn't drowned men only use wooden items taken from the beaches? I think 60 unarmored men with staffs don't make a good unit.

Good idea that one about Sparrows, they could spread as rebels and move towards the big cities as did in the novels. So on, would be possible to replace rebel armies' label by "Broken men" one?

Yes the drowned men used driftwood cudgels. No it wouldn't be an effective unit, but would be cheap. I thought of adding them more for keeping with the novels than any real combat effectiveness.

Hmmmm. The broken men idea sounds pretty cool.

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For the broken men, is it possible to make them spawn more in areas where battles take place? Like a trigger, that if theres a large battle theres a chance to create a small army of rebels?

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For the broken men, is it possible to make them spawn more in areas where battles take place? Like a trigger, that if theres a large battle theres a chance to create a small army of rebels?

Hmmmmm. I'm not sure about that. I bet there is a way to code it. But I have no idea how to mod myself. It mght be alot of work to get it to work though.

If its possible it would be a cool thing though.

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For the broken men, is it possible to make them spawn more in areas where battles take place? Like a trigger, that if theres a large battle theres a chance to create a small army of rebels?

No, not based on M2:TW's engine. Simply put, the only way to have rebel armies form like that is to have a faction get destroyed. Otherwise, it simply can't happen, IIRC. I've consorted with a few M2 mods before (not that I have any ability myself...) and basically, it's impossible to really set rebel spawns based on player-controlled events, aside from specific circumstances. They'll just have to show up like rebels always do in TW, unless you want to have our modder waste a bunch of time making undreds and hundreds of events which will never get used.

Re: Religious fanatics. Really, this isn't much keeping with the books. The Drowned Men never left the islands in the first place, and certainly never ended up in battles. I really doubt that unarmed, unarmored men would even be considered suitable for a raid with the Ironmen, much less be pressed into service like you seem to be suggesting. It's really not a great idea, and doesn't much stay true to the books. The Sparrows certainly are capable of fighting, but I don't really see them taking any side but their own, so it's kind of hard to imagine how that would work.

Gampie: Sure thing, just tell me what units you need new descriptions for and I'll get to writing. It should be really simple anyways, considering how little we'll have to work with for most of the units. Most of the descriptions should be pretty generic, since there's no such thing as a history of every military formation in Westeros.

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Hmmmmm. I'm not sure about that. I bet there is a way to code it. But I have no idea how to mod myself. It mght be alot of work to get it to work though.

If its possible it would be a cool thing though.

There are religious units for crusades in M2TW that are only available to a crusading army.

They're unarmored and weak but are like.. 100 gold to recruit and almost nothing to maintain. They also fit the description of drowned men pretty well, robes and clubs.

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Broken men: as Daedalus says → nigh impossible to make and I have my doubts if it would actually improve the gameplay. I think it would rather become a nuisance to defeat those small stacks of broken men after each big battle.

Sparrows: this is something tricky :-) I won't add them because they do not exist in AGOT. Basically in the mod you are rewriting the history of Westeros, it's an alternative course of events. If you play with House Lannister and pull all your forces (including Gregor) away from the Riverlands and attack the Ironmen then the terror and havoc that partially caused the rise of the sparrows will never have happened and they shouldn't spawn. Writing scripts for the slim chance that the events in the mod roughly follow the the books and that this should spawn some sparrow rebels would consume too much time, imo.

Daedalus, with which mods did you consort?

I've been working on the mod today.

Here is the updated campaign map

(about 70 provinces)

Notice that Dorne is now in.

And here is another screenshot of The Fingers, Longbow Hall and Gulltown. Gulltown is empty as indicated by that particular symbol. I haven't done all those symbols yet.

Gulltown, Longbow Hall

I also changed the portraits of the septons. No more priest portraits with those pointy hats (don't know the English word, lol).

A riverland septon

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I am definitely looking forward to the first release.

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