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House Targaryen

AGOT MAFIA 47

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I'd agree that Jast jumping onto you after Uller and I pressed is a bit opportunistic. Doesn't help that he went for the case I presented and thus looks more sympish, making me look more guilty (if you buy into the hiding in plain sight thing).

Your explanation seems perfectly reasonable Upcliff, however it is removed from the incident and that lessens it's impact. An FM could easily plead time constraints at the moment, then come back with a finely crafted response.

And I'm sure if I had immediately retracted that would have been FM-like in some other way. I'm not knocking you, I knew I screwed up big-time and I knew that no matter what I did someone was going to think that option x looks more guilty than if I did option y. If I get lynched for it, well, so be it, but maybe I can use it to illuminate those jumping on the bandwagon.

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It is day 1.

16 players remain: Ambrose, Caron, Elesham, Hasty, Inchfield, Jast, Lake, Lefford, Norcross, Oakheart, Prester, Sarsfield, Sunglass, Uller, Upcliff, Wynch.

9 votes are needed for a conviction or 8 to go to night.

night: 1 vote (Ambrose)

Prester: 3 vote (Uller, Oakheart, Hasty)

Upcliff: 2 vote (Prester, Jast)

Sarsfield: 3 vote (Sunglass, Wynch, Norcross)

Lefford: 1 vote (Lake)

Wynch: 1 vote (Caron)

Caron : 1 vote (Lefford)

Jast: 1 vote (Sarsfield)

3 players have not voted: Elesham, Inchfield, Upcliff.

You have about 29 hours left.

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Hi. I'm back. And I'm still keeping my vote on Sarsfield.

Look at this post. He says he's suspicious of 5 different players. Two of them are voting for him, and the reasons he gives are atrociously bad. He suspects me because I'm middle-of-the-roadish (???) and Norcross because he's not convinced by his n00b routine...

Finally he removes his vote, for total maneuverability.

Actually I've been wavering on switching my vote over to Uller for some time now. I currently find him more suspicious than Upcliff who I presently have my vote on. Other's I'm considering are Lake and Sunglass - for being middle-of-the-roadish and Norcross whose n00b routine doesn't fully convince me.

At any rate, I'll remove my vote for now.

And then here he comes and votes for a completely different person. He doesn't even give us a tangible reason (something he said, a case other player made...), but puts it down to some abstract "general behavior" nonsense.

Coming out of left field a bit, but I'm going to cast my vote for Jast. I don't have much of a case really, but going back and re-reading his posts I thought I caught a whiff of scum for a second. It's not really any post in particular that gives me this impression so much as general behavior - not really at the forefront of things but not on the sidelines either, generally friendly demeanor, gives a few names for suspects but not saying anything so controversial as to provoke the ire of said suspects. You know, the usual things that could indicate a FM, or just a normal player whose not totally insane ;)

I really don't buy the cases that look at interactions between players because there's been so much playful banter in this game as to make it confusing and misguiding. As I said, I'm also not sure there's a symp. If we haven't got finders or a CF then the mods must have loaded our guns with something (hopeful thinking: innocent witch-hunter?).

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Sort of random comments on posts since I'm late to the game and I need to go to bed. Sorry, had a busy day.

Hey guys, just checking in for now. Not much to say until more people show up or I'm directly accused of something...

Oh also, there's a code in this post. Can you spot it? ;)

Who's a ho? (HO!)

I said that you's a ho.....

That was it, right? :unsure:

Hi everyone, I am back. It seems that the game goes on pretty well. I still have my suspicions. Wynch...I think I'll vote Wynch again.

Seriously, what is UP with you, Caron? You're bizarre. Quit it. I have a slight suspicion of Wynch too that I don't really want to elaborate on until day 2, if we make it that far, but surely your reasons are different from mine. Shall we do a one-way collaboration? You show me yours and I'll...consider not voting you off as a symp?

I'd like you to properly represent what I said. I never said that either Prester or Sarsfield were evil. I did say that their antics could be seen as killer-like. I also never voted for anyone. Like Prester said, I'm just stirring here.

Now what's bothering me more is that you keep harping that Prester is evil, but you keep voting on Sarsfield. Smacks a little of misdirection, though, doesn't it? My Jury is still out on Prester's guilt or innocence. And to be honest, the sooner Prester is lynched, the sooner I can stop looking at that ugly-ass av (sorry Pres, luck of the draw and all). But for the meantime, I think a vote on Uller is a good start.

What's wrong with having multiple suspects?

I don't actually suspect Upcliff that much, for the record. I just don't get this argument, maybe because I've carried multiple suspects in the past.

I should probably vote for someone, but here are some other thoughts first:

1. Inchfield's a symp. His harping on Uller rings like deliberate confusion to me. I just don't know who he's symping FOR. Obviously not Uller.

2. Jast. Er, I'm getting the same gut feeling argument based in rock-solid logic vague uneasiness about him, mainly because I thought his vote against Norcross seemed opportunistic out of place for the rest of the way he's been playing. To put it more bluntly: Jast clearly has an idea of mafia history and the way the game is played here. Norcross, by later admission, does not. But that was pretty clear from his posts. I expected more from Jast.

Hmmm.....

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Looking at the cases on Sarsfield, I can see how he's keeping all his options open. I wouldn't mind lynching him, but just to balance things out a little, and because I trust my own feelings more than groupthink (whether or not anyone luvs my metareasoning) I'm going to risk seeming like a Sarsfield fan instead.

Mr. Vote, meet Mr. Jast

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If we haven't got finders or a CF then the mods must have loaded our guns with something (hopeful thinking: innocent witch-hunter?).
This was my thought, I'll admit.

Still not an ideal situation to be in as they are a once every second night type role and can kill innocent or guilty players. I just remember the last no finder of any type game we played which was very hard for the innocents as there was never any concrete results to base future play from so the FM didn't really have to bother with a lot of the strategies that often resut in them being caught out. So, hopefully we have something. :unsure:

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Small clarification: Blue Rose doesn't mod this. She wanted, but I heard nothing from her till January. So I am on my own.

I'll try to find a companion, but can't promice anything.

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Seriously, what is UP with you, Caron? You're bizarre. Quit it. I have a slight suspicion of Wynch too that I don't really want to elaborate on until day 2, if we make it that far, but surely your reasons are different from mine. Shall we do a one-way collaboration? You show me yours and I'll...consider not voting you off as a symp?

Everybody here is bizarre, don't you think? I'm keeping my vote and no, I am not a symp, believe it or not. Poor Targaryen, alone at home...

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Ok, I'm still as pretty much uncertain as I've ever been on day 1, but here goes. There were two situations that got my hackles up so far.

Hasty made a baffling, far-reaching case that Uller, who has done his best to sew confusion, finds clever. He picked on nearly everyone else, but that he finds clever? Sure, it was the day's first attempt at a real case, but...I like to consider myself intelligent, and I couldn't find a shred of logic in it. Just highlighted parts of posts and a random conclusion. Maybe I'm just biased because I see searching for symps early day 1 in a no CF game rather worthless. They wouldn't even have had time to connect themselves to their masters very well. Since Uller strikes me as a pretty logical person, despite being a deliberate ass, I'd like to know just what the hell he finds clever in there, especially since he got so worked up about my comment to him.

The other was how quickly Norcross was forgiven. I remember being new and confused, but, well, being new doesn't disqualify someone from being a killer. And I'm not completely sure I buy that he's a new player. It seems a tad forced, but I'm just cynical. Maybe he'll make good on the promise to take a magnifying glass to the thread.

My last question I won't direct to anyone in particular yet, and while I hate role-spec, do you think if there's a witch hunter, they'd actually be on team innocent? I like to think our mods wouldn't unbalance us with an innocent role that might kill our own actually useful teammates, like a healer, vig, or gaurd.

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Coming out of left field a bit, but I'm going to cast my vote for Jast. I don't have much of a case really, but going back and re-reading his posts I thought I caught a whiff of scum for a second. It's not really any post in particular that gives me this impression so much as general behavior - not really at the forefront of things but not on the sidelines either, generally friendly demeanor, gives a few names for suspects but not saying anything so controversial as to provoke the ire of said suspects. You know, the usual things that could indicate a FM, or just a normal player whose not totally insane ;)

Hey, Pot. I'm Kettle.

2. Jast. Er, I'm getting the same gut feeling argument based in rock-solid logic vague uneasiness about him, mainly because I thought his vote against Norcross seemed opportunistic out of place for the rest of the way he's been playing. To put it more bluntly: Jast clearly has an idea of mafia history and the way the game is played here. Norcross, by later admission, does not. But that was pretty clear from his posts. I expected more from Jast.

Noted. Next game, I will fake being a noob so as to avoid setting the bar too high for myself.

As for opportunism, notice that I voted Norcross when he seemed content to sit back and not do anything, and again for Upcliff when he did the same. People not even pretending to play the game annoy me enough to warrant a vote, especially on Day 1.

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Hasty made a baffling, far-reaching case that Uller, who has done his best to sew confusion, finds clever. He picked on nearly everyone else, but that he finds clever? Sure, it was the day's first attempt at a real case, but...I like to consider myself intelligent, and I couldn't find a shred of logic in it. Just highlighted parts of posts and a random conclusion. Maybe I'm just biased because I see searching for symps early day 1 in a no CF game rather worthless. They wouldn't even have had time to connect themselves to their masters very well. Since Uller strikes me as a pretty logical person, despite being a deliberate ass, I'd like to know just what the hell he finds clever in there, especially since he got so worked up about my comment to him.

The case itself isn't clever. What would be clever is if Jast was a symp of Prester and that the case was based on truth.

Jast says, "I would be the worst symp ever if I did that."

I say, "you wouldn't be the worst symp, I find that clever."

It's the fact that they were responding to each other and situations using the same words. I never said I found the case true, just that if Jast was a symp and that was their goal, it was a clever way of going about it instead of it making him the "worst symp ever."

Get it yet?

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Why does Oakheart only have one post?

Clearly his car was run over by a jaguar and now he's in the hospital suffering from PTSD, and only has five minutes a day of internet time. Alas, Oakheart, we miss ye.

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It is day 1.

16 players remain: Ambrose, Caron, Elesham, Hasty, Inchfield, Jast, Lake, Lefford, Norcross, Oakheart, Prester, Sarsfield, Sunglass, Uller, Upcliff, Wynch.

9 votes are needed for a conviction or 8 to go to night.

night: 1 vote (Ambrose)

Prester: 3 vote (Uller, Oakheart, Hasty)

Upcliff: 2 vote (Prester, Jast)

Sarsfield: 3 vote (Sunglass, Wynch, Norcross)

Lefford: 1 vote (Lake)

Wynch: 1 vote (Caron)

Caron : 1 vote (Lefford)

Jast: 2 vote (Sarsfield, Elesham)

2 players have not voted: Inchfield, Upcliff.

You have about 19 hours left.

In fact, less, since most of you will sleep during last several hours.

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Ok. Yep, I misremembered. Came from too much skimming and not enough reading.

I did not immediately retract it for a couple reasons. First, more often than not, when somoene gaffes like that, then tries to retract, it makes them look more guilty, trying to cover your mistake, like. Second, I was busy doing other things for a while, and I wanted to do some reading and thinking before I opened my mouth again. I'm still busy, and I'm still reading.

Well, I don't think I'd find anything suspicious about someone correcting their mistake. When it's proven wrong, backpedaling is expected. That's different then you saying "Jast is guilty" but not voting until someone calls you on not voting.

Third, and most importantly, I was getting "attacked" (probably the wrong word, but who cares) from both you, Prester and Uller. And it seemed a bit odd that after sparring all day (and I admit that Uller sparred with more than just you) the two of you coincidentally zero in on me at the same time. So I wanted to shut up and play the wounded gazelle for a while and see who bit. Jast did, and I'm looking into that.

Uh, I think you kind of "misremembered" the sequence of events here. You attacked me. I defended myself and proved where you were wrong. You might have been "attacked" by Prester for going after easy targets (I think it was Prester who said that anyway) but I didn't attack you. I defended myself. Didn't much like the pressure did you?

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Everybody here is bizarre, don't you think? I'm keeping my vote and no, I am not a symp, believe it or not.

Wtf nobody said you need to change your vote but how about giving us a reason for it

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I was hoping to see pages and pages of stuff to comb through and enlighten me.

*sigh*

Sunglasses last post bumped him up on my suspicions list. He voted early for Sarsfield during the first flurry of non-jokey voting, and now he's finding (weak) reasons to justify keeping the vote there. He may truly have suspicions, but it looks more like a fear of flip-flopping to me.

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I directly accuse you of not trying hard enough Sarsfield, and of laid back, wait-to-see-what-happens, reactive FMish play-style. Oh, and I hate codes.

Went back to see why else I should vote for Sunny and saw this. I laughed a little because this is exactly how Sunglass is playing this game. Other than that - not a whole heck of a lot. Even if he's not an FM, there's not much lost by cutting this deadweight.

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