Asshai/Wall relationship (aDwD spoiler)

[Guest Other-in-law]

I think it is quite likely that both the Light of R'hllor and the Darkness of the Great Other are just two extremes of the same force which is not particularly benevolent toward humanity.

This, maybe?

[Jakob Lightbringer]

This, maybe?

Sure... maybe. I was thinking maybe something more along the lines of THIS.

[Spring Bass]

Doesn't one passage describe slightly luminescent "ghost" grass in the Shadow? I'm inclined towards the "magical meteorology" theory myself for it, in which the Shadow (which can be passed under) is basically a giant cloud of ash and dust that at least partially blocks out the sun and casts the land beneath it into permanent twilight, and which stays where it is due to a combination of magic, local supplies (considering that dragons like it hot and volcanic, perhaps the shadow area is volcanic as well, with lots of smoking vents), and possibly terrain as well (perhaps the shadow is a depressed region, like a bowl, that is lower than the land around it - possibly even below sea level).

[Jakob Lightbringer]

Doesn't one passage describe slightly luminescent "ghost" grass in the Shadow?

Yes, good call. The Dothraki talk about it all the way back in a Game of Thrones. I would be surprised if this wasn't some sort of supernatural phenomena related to the presence of the Shadow. An interesting property of luminescent grass might be that it could create the appearance that anyone standing on it casts no shadow.

[Guest Other-in-law]

here's the original passage for ghost grass:

"Down in the Shadow Lands beyond Asshai, they say there are oceans of ghost grass, taller than a man on horseback with stalks as pale as milkglass. It murders all other grass and glows in the dark with the spirits of the damned. The Dothraki claim that someday ghost grass will cover the entire world, and then all life will end."

That thought gave Dany the shivers. "I don't want to talk about that now."

It's interesting that it gives Dany the shivers, like Renly's shadow assassin made him cold a moment before he died. Another supernatural phenomenon from the Shadowlands associated with cold. Moreover, the "pale as milkglass" has been repeatedly used to describe the Others (and the great-sword Dawn for that matter). And that business with the 'ending all life' is certainly on the apocalyptic side, just like the Others leading their armies of the dead to sweep across the world.

All tenuous, to be sure, but I think it adds some cumulative weight to a connection between the Shadow and the Others when added together.

I also have to wonder about the extreme height of the grass, and if there's any connection between ghost grass and Dany's vision from the House of the Undying of a white lion running through grass taller than a man. That's usually held to be either the Hrakkar that Drogo slew for her (which would be a boring letdown), or Jaime (who is the white lion of the KG) or pale blond Tyrion, who might be running through grass of normal height, which just looks tall to him in comparison.

Also does anyone recall any mention of ghost grass growing in Westeros? I vaguely recall something about a maester using it for something, but I don't have the e-books to search for specific words. Aside from the Shadowlands and the western Dothraki Sea, it was growing in the Garden of Gehane in Qarth, and was interpreted as being an omen of the resurgence of magic by the Qartheen.

[Spring Bass]

Interesting. We seem to have a lot of magical white-colored plants in the Martinworld.

[Spilt Pea Soup]

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but two pieces of evidence:

1) When Dany is arranging Drogo's funereal pyre in aGoT, she aligns the sticks "north to south, from ice to fire"

and

2) When MMD is dancing in tent to save Drogo's life, Dany sees the shadow of a being burning in fire.

Perhaps in the South, there are "Others" made of fire correlated to the ice "Others" in the North. It might also be the case that Asshai has erected a chasm of fire, volcanic masma, whatever, to hold back these creatures, and the smoke emitting from the chasm or the creatures creates the "shadow" that covers the landscape.

Just as in the north, giants, grumpkins, and etc. reside in the north beyond the wall, so in the south, dragons, fire-beings, and other creatures reside beyond Asshai in the shadow.

[The SmilingKnight]

Fire consumes, Ice preserves.

They both can resurect people after they die and use them onward. While Rhlorrs "zombies" can retain their personality (Baeric, catelyn) we dont see something like that with Others wraiths, except single case of ColdHands.

[A wilding]

At least some wights do appear to keep something of their former personalities though. The evidence is the two at the end of AGoT, who apparently remembered enough to target the two key members of the NW.

[The SmilingKnight]

We cannot be certain that they were not directed to do so.

tw, apologies for spelling Rh`llor wrongly thus far.

[A wilding]

It is possible, but they were on the south side of the Wall, which appears to block magical communication. So this implies that, even if they were following programmed orders, they were still displaying some initiative.

[The SmilingKnight]

Well sure, but so far Other wraiths seemed more like almost mindless zombies compared to almost human Rh`llor resurrected ones.

[wolf spider]

Interesting thread!

I don't have much to add except that, as far as grasses go- the size of the ghost grass is not unusual for a tallgrass prairie. Big bluestem can get over 10ft tall if it has enough water. There are a lot of old reports (diaries, letters, etc) of people moving through the midwestern US (when it was still largely prairie) about how tall the grasses were, and about being able to tie the grass in a knot above their saddles.

[EnergeticCrab]

In this thread, it is theorized that ghost grass is actually snow. Who likes this idea?

[Ororo727 Jon Snow Fangirl]

In this thread, it is theorized that ghost grass is actually snow. Who likes this idea?

I thought of that recently watching season 1 when Ser Jorah said it.