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Mexal

AGOT Mafia 46.5

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Re: Above: Where did I claim to be a vigilante?

Hello Comrades..

I am Elesham, I from Russia. I come Africa for hunt large animal, kill ..how you say.. rye-nose-rus with large gun. Brochure say no kill animal, but kill animal in Elesham blood. Elesham see we have bad mans in safari. Elesham look foward killing bad mans with hands or large gun.

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I count a symp clue and a vigilante clue in one post, neither disguised. It's hard to change my mind when something screams "lynch me" that loudly.

I stand by my theory that he is either an FM, a symp or a vigilante. All three are dangerous to us, so I'd rather not have to worry about him.

1) If he is an FM, then your point against Elesham is pure WIFOM.

2) If he is a symp, we ain't got any symps, so nevermind that.

3) If he is a vig, then I am pretty sure that no matter his stupidity (if any), he won't randomly kill somebody in the night just because he feels like it. If he's an FM fake-claiming vig... well, that's mind-boggling, and also poorly done. Regardless, if the FMs think he is a vig, then the FMs will kill him. In your mind, we would be losing a dumb innocent, and saving ourselves the effort of lynching him.

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That's a stretch. "Oh no, he talked about guns and bad guys and killing, he's obvious an FM and a vig and a guard and ..."

I will repeat one last time that I have not claimed any role or coded any hint of one prior to and including this post.

If you are still so absolutely angry at my existence, please feel free to continue your barrage of inane logic in another room, Prester. You're far too eager to get some bloodshed, and over what amounts to nothing.

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So you didn't realise that you was claiming to not only be an FM, but also a symp and a vigilante? Are you really telling me THREE role clues were RANDOMLY included in the post?

One i can take. Two, maybe. Three?

Well, as Ele has said there is no symp, so that's out. Could be he was mafia, but it's not nearly enough for me to say that he's a viable lynch. I just wanted him to drop his horrible RP. Which he did.

Elesham: Really, though, it's not a good idea to do RP the way you did. It really, really helps nobody when you don't read the scene or the role PMs before jumping in with stuff that sounds like killer RP.

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Why would we think he's innocent?

Why wouldn't we? As I said, attracting attention from the beginning of the game isn't something I find too suspicious.

And you said so yourself:

So we either lose an innocent idiot, an FM, or an idiot innocent with the ability to then kill another innocent by mistake. It'll take a lot to make me move this vote.

You just said "innocent idiot" rather than innocent.

And even if he is, we have the possibility of a vigilante. Aren't you at all worried that this guy may be able to kill someone at night, whatever side he's on?

The vigilante role is rarely given to FM because augmenting their number of kills-per-game is ususally balance-breaking (plus, this is supposed to be a very vanilla game). This means that, even though it might back-fire, it can be useful in many end-game situations, provide us with VPIs, etc. I consider an innocent player with the vig role an asset and wouldn't lynch someone I thought was the vig.

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Caron, why is this even important? There aren't any symps, and an FM partner doesn't need to signal their own partner, or so I would hope.

If you're really curious to know, I hit "Add Reply" and wanted to pick a random person to vote, and scrolled down to see this:

It is day 1.

14 players remain: Ambrose, Caron, Elesham, Hasty, Inchfield, Jast, Lake, Lefford, Norcross, Prester, Sarsfield, Sunglass, Uller, Upcliff.

Guess who comes first in that list, hm? And now I know my ABC's, next time won't you sing with me?

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Why would an FM kill the vigilante, unless they were clearly hating on one of the FMs? They are, after all, equally likely (if not more so) to kill an innocent.

Personally, if i was a vigilante, the only person i'd ever consider killing is anyone who role revealed as vigilante. Unless of course we were left in a position where a vig kill was the only mathematical chance at winning.

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Your RP was classy, or your symp clue was classy?

Is Terry Pratchett the FM?

glad someone got it ;)

There's only one way to tell. Capital letters in the morning scenes.

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Elesham not symp, Elesham good guy. Big boss say no symp on Safari, yous no read?

I checked with the mods, and Elesham is correct. There aren't any symps in this game. The rules leave it a bit ambiguous, in my opinion - the part where Targ lists roles that could be aligned with either good or evil had me thinking that either 1) there could be a symp in this game, or 2) the FM could have a second role, or 3) both. But now Targ has cleared it up for us, so anybody who was looking for symp clues can stop now.

Of course, that does also mean that the FM could have a second role, in addition to being Hunters. :unsure:

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I consider an innocent player with the vig role an asset and wouldn't lynch someone I thought was the vig.

See, that's where we differ. I see it as a suicide bomber, an unpredictable role i'd rather not have on my side, unless it was being filledby someone i trust.

And at the moment, I wouldn't trust him with it.

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Of course, that does also mean that the FM could have a second role, in addition to being Hunters. :unsure:

This is supposed to be a vanilla game. FM with extra abilities are extremely unlikely to appear (and mostly unbalanced anyway, except in all-roled games).

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Why would an FM kill the vigilante, unless they were clearly hating on one of the FMs? They are, after all, equally likely (if not more so) to kill an innocent.

Personally, if i was a vigilante, the only person i'd ever consider killing is anyone who role revealed as vigilante. Unless of course we were left in a position where a vig kill was the only mathematical chance at winning.

Great, now our vig, if we even have a vig, has your opinion on the fine art of playing a vig. Since Elesham can't be a symp, he is, by your theory, either an FM or an innocent. Sorry, but probability claims he's just an innocent. Probability also claims that the chances of a truly stupid FM that botches the show only a few hours after the game's begun is awfully low. You're welcome to push his lynch until the end of time if you'd like, but let's not become to fixated on our boy Elesham here, shall we?

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I checked with the mods, and Elesham is correct. There aren't any symps in this game. The rules leave it a bit ambiguous, in my opinion - the part where Targ lists roles that could be aligned with either good or evil had me thinking that either 1) there could be a symp in this game, or 2) the FM could have a second role, or 3) both. But now Targ has cleared it up for us, so anybody who was looking for symp clues can stop now.

Of course, that does also mean that the FM could have a second role, in addition to being Hunters. :unsure:

Okay, in that case 1/3rd of my argument is down. I'm willing to remove vote, but not remove suspicion. I'm willing to go with the idea that ANY vig is better than no vig, and equally like the idea that if nothing else, he sort of serves as a meat shield, incase the FMs agree with me that he made a vig clue, but disagree with me as to the value of a vig :-p

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I checked with the mods, and Elesham is correct. There aren't any symps in this game. The rules leave it a bit ambiguous, in my opinion - the part where Targ lists roles that could be aligned with either good or evil had me thinking that either 1) there could be a symp in this game, or 2) the FM could have a second role, or 3) both. But now Targ has cleared it up for us, so anybody who was looking for symp clues can stop now.

Of course, that does also mean that the FM could have a second role, in addition to being Hunters. :unsure:

A symp's vital ability is that he knows who the FMs are. None of the listed roles make any mention of knowledge of the FMs. I'd be fairly irritated with Mr. and Mrs. Mod if they left that little detail out.

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Great, now our vig, if we even have a vig, has your opinion on the fine art of playing a vig. Since Elesham can't be a symp, he is, by your theory, either an FM or an innocent. Sorry, but probability claims he's just an innocent. Probability also claims that the chances of a truly stupid FM that botches the show only a few hours after the game's begun is awfully low. You're welcome to push his lynch until the end of time if you'd like, but let's not become to fixated on our boy Elesham here, shall we?

Prester is hellbent on saying I'm the vig and I'm an idiot so I should be lynched because I can't be trusted to have a kill in my own hands. Oh, or I'm an FM and should be lynched because yeah, FM. It's just melodramatic and over the top and unnecessary. No me gusta, as they say in Mother Russia.

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Prester is hellbent on saying I'm the vig and I'm an idiot

For the record, I agree with the latter on basis of your fabulous RP.

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It is day 1.

14 players remain: Ambrose, Caron, Elesham, Hasty, Inchfield, Jast, Lake, Lefford, Norcross, Prester, Sarsfield, Sunglass, Uller, Upcliff.

8 votes are needed for a conviction or 7 to go to night.

1 vote for Sunglass ( Ambrose)

1 vote for Elesham ( Lefford)

1 vote for Prester ( Elesham)

1 vote for Caron ( Sunglass)

1 vote for Ambrose ( Sarsfield)

1 vote for Sarsfield ( Caron)

8 players have not voted: Hasty, Inchfield, Jast, Lake, Norcross, Prester, Uller, Upcliff.

You have roughly 43.5 hours remaining

Mod note:

There are no symps. Period.

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This is supposed to be a vanilla game. FM with extra abilities are extremely unlikely to appear (and mostly unbalanced anyway, except in all-roled games).

I think the game is vanilla in terms of being 1 team of FM, not all roles, not using mercenary rules, no converter, etc. I don't think giving the FM a power would go against being vanilla.

I also don't think giving the FM a role would necessarily make the game unbalanced.

Most importantly, I look at the rules, and I see that the mods took the time to make it clear that anybody assigned the Vig, Guard, or Coward role could be innocent or guilty. So I'm not going to entirely dismiss the possibility at this time.

That said, I do think that it's somewhat unlikely for the FM to be given either one of the Vig or Coward roles. Guard is more realistic, if they have do have a supplemental power. Anyway, this is all idle speculation. The point is that they could have an extra role, according to the rules.

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