Mafia Game 48- It's over

[House Tyrell]

See, you don't think that Martell could possibly be partners with Tully because they did with Tully what Daed did with Gert. Why the fuck not? This is the exact reason why someone could pull it off two games in a row. "Why would anyone be dumb enough to do it two games in a row?" Because it would be more unexpected than not. Why would an evil Martell defend an innocent Tully?

nope, i dont. most FMs dont take huge risks like that and trying to pull of something that failed miserbly last game is a huge risk. it could be true but its not likely so im not going to focus on it.

You've been playing an interesting game here Bolton, I get the feeling you are trying to go along with this questioning of Martell but you seem to be holding back some. Questioning some things that I'm not sure deserve it.

good feeling. I am holding back because i think you guys are focusing on the wrong thing. Martells focus on the mob is interesting cause he wanted to focus on the mob exlusively. chances are if hes guilty, his partenrs werent on the mob. i find some of his responses stupid so i question them. he could be guilty, but i dont thin khes guilty with tully, nor do i think hes guilty cause he called tully a she.

[House Dayne]

imm going to vote for martell. ive stated my reasons, and over and over he/she has just given me reason to believe my suspicions.

[House Thorne]

uh, he did. you said Tully wasnt your sister/lover/wife. you then said you call everyone he.

Oh, that. It was quote from my favorite novel, "Golden Calf". And this quote was addressed to a male, in original.

[House Dondarrion]

It is day 1.

17 players remain: Arryn, Baratheon, Blackwood, Bolton, Crakehall, Dayne, Frey, Greyjoy, Lannister, Manderly, Martell, Reed, Stark, Swann, Tully, Tyrell, Westerling.

9 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

3 votes for Baratheon (Manderly, Tyrell, Frey)

3 votes for Tully (Crakehall, Stark, Bolton)

3 votes for Martell (Greyjoy, Baratheon, Dayne)

1 vote for Dayne (Reed)

1 vote for Stark (Tully)

1 vote for Frey (Martell)

1 vote for Swann (Blackwood)

4 players have not voted: Arryn, Lannister, Swann, Westerling.

[House Tyrell]

imm going to vote for martell. ive stated my reasons, and over and over he/she has just given me reason to believe my suspicions.

and im moving my vote to you dayne. i dont agree with your reasons against Martell and i think youre looking for an easy lynch. i didnt like your reasoning against tully then claiming it wasnt your reason but others. nor did I like your comment removing your vote on tully about the post count as that had nothing to do with anything.

Also why not put your vote down before baratheon? you had ample time in the past few hours.

Oh, that. It was quote from my favorite novel, "Golden Calf". And this quote was addressed to a male, in original.

makes sense to me. hopefully this puts the gender issue to rest.

[House Wythers]

So the main points I see against Martell are -

his defense of Tully

- not so out of the ordinary, innocents do it all the time. WIFOM at best

His assumption that most of the FM would be on the lynch mob

- After re-reading, I think that was a misunderstanding and not so strange after all

His gender slip

- not a reason to base a case on

I'm not really all that suspicious of Martell after this intense grilling. And I'm going to move my vote to Baratheon. In my mind Martell is looking more and more innocent and just as I am coming to that conclusion, Bara jumps on him. Looks opportunistic from my point of view. Voting for someone that people have expressed major suspicion on and trying to spur a vote momentum.

I'm not allowed to continue to pressure someone and vote for them but you are? I would agree with you if I voted and pushed my vote after Martell had already left, however I did it while discussion was still going on. I have not been simply parroting other people's arguments, I think there is merit in suspecting Martell. I am a bit suspicious of Bolton because they seem to be trying to play both sides and ultimately defend Martell; however, in Martell's last few responses they seem to be overwhelmed, not altogether surprising, but that has alleviated some of my suspicion. I still think lynching either Tully or Martell would give us more information than any random person, however it is still too early to make that decision.

good feeling. I am holding back because i think you guys are focusing on the wrong thing. Martells focus on the mob is interesting cause he wanted to focus on the mob exlusively. chances are if hes guilty, his partenrs werent on the mob. i find some of his responses stupid so i question them. he could be guilty, but i dont thin khes guilty with tully, nor do i think hes guilty cause he called tully a she.

Here you are looking at the weakest part of the 'case' on Martell. You don't think Martell is guilty because he called Tully a she, well that is great..guess what? Nobody else does either. Both Frey and I have noted that it was a bit suspicious simply because of its presence in the grand scheme of things. It is by no means the basis of the case, as you seem to point out here.

I would like you to tell me how you think Martell could be guilty but Tully is innocent.

[House Frey]

I could go Dayne as well for the quick vote, but I'm staying with Baratheon for now. He's been around on and off for much of the game, but has added very little before his post voting for Martell. Mostly one liners and quoting other posts only to add a short line. Seems like he's trying to avoid attention or controversy while appearing to be active and helpful.

[House Tyrell]

Here you are looking at the weakest part of the 'case' on Martell. You don't think Martell is guilty because he called Tully a she, well that is great..guess what? Nobody else does either. Both Frey and I have noted that it was a bit suspicious simply because of its presence in the grand scheme of things. It is by no means the basis of the case, as you seem to point out here.

I would like you to tell me how you think Martell could be guilty but Tully is innocent.

and you arent reading my posts or if you are, youre taking from them just what you want.

ive addressed all aspects of the case on martell. i disagree with 2 points. 1. i dont think hes defending tully. 2. i dont think he made a gender slip. the only other point that ive seen is his indignation which i agreed with. so please, what am i missing in the case? how am i looking at only the weak part?

i never said tully is innocent. i said i dont think they are partnrs together. do not misrepresent what i said.

[House Dayne]

and im moving my vote to you dayne. i dont agree with your reasons against Martell and i think youre looking for an easy lynch. i didnt like your reasoning against tully then claiming it wasnt your reason but others. nor did I like your comment removing your vote on tully about the post count as that had nothing to do with anything.

never have i seen a more nonsensical reason to vote as disagreement on a topic. whatever floats your boat, though. i had said i wasn't seriously voting for tully. i had no reason to remove my vote, regardless of what others thought of my case. i removed my vote because it was just.. a joke vote. im not even sure what the last sentence means - i remember mentioning last game... but if this has nothing to do with anything, why are you basing your vote for me on it?

Also why not put your vote down before baratheon? you had ample time in the past few hours.

im running a windows xp computer on a '97 motherboard with onboard video and 64 megs of ram... i was slogging through typing the post up and waiting for my computer to recognize i had submitted the post. im not going to argue this though. you can assume whatever youd like to about me.

[House Frey]

I'm not allowed to continue to pressure someone and vote for them but you are?

You are allowed to do anything you wish, just as I am allowed to view the game from my point of view. From where I'm standing, you look a bit shady. The burden is on you to convince me you're not.

And you kind of are parroting others' ideas - with just enough commentary to make it seem like you're contributing original and independent thought.

[House Tyrell]

never have i seen a more nonsensical reason to vote as disagreement on a topic. whatever floats your boat, though. i had said i wasn't seriously voting for tully. i had no reason to remove my vote, regardless of what others thought of my case. i removed my vote because it was just.. a joke vote. im not even sure what the last sentence means - i remember mentioning last game... but if this has nothing to do with anything, why are you basing your vote for me on it?

you removed your vote and claimed post counts had nothing to do with anything, like your reason for removing your vote was based o nthe fact the case was on post counts. it made no sense. as for nonsensical? how?

im running a windows xp computer on a '97 motherboard with onboard video and 64 megs of ram... i was slogging through typing the post up and waiting for my computer to recognize i had submitted the post. im not going to argue this though. you can assume whatever youd like to about me.

im supposed to believe you waited the last 3 hours to drop a vote 15 minutes after baratheon did because of your computer? ok.

[House Frey]

im running a windows xp computer on a '97 motherboard with onboard video and 64 megs of ram... i was slogging through typing the post up and waiting for my computer to recognize i had submitted the post. im not going to argue this though. you can assume whatever youd like to about me.

That took you hours?

[House Wythers]

I could go Dayne as well for the quick vote, but I'm staying with Baratheon for now. He's been around on and off for much of the game, but has added very little before his post voting for Martell. Mostly one liners and quoting other posts only to add a short line. Seems like he's trying to avoid attention or controversy while appearing to be active and helpful.

Around on and off? I posted that I was checking in and would try and get on later...then I have been on the last couple hours. That's life and that is the reality of how I've been posting. I'm not sure why you believe this is somehow pertinent to your case, but as I've said your assumption is incorrect regardless. I have added very little? You could say that for about 12 players here, I have made attempts to add to the discussion and many times I crossposted with you making the same point. Somehow when I say it there is less value? I have been thoughtfully questioning Martell and the whole situation as much as anyone else involved in the last hour or so. Your description is rather true of Dayne, however, if you are still considering using this line of attack on someone. Simply cut and paste, then change your vote to Dayne. I am more than happy to have attention and controversy focused on me, I generally don't notice it. I did not even realize until the update that your vote was the 3rd on me. Nice so you've jumped on Tully as the 5th vote and now me as the 3rd?

I understand your attempt to place suspicion on me and I do see how one could see it. It is easy to jump on and continue the questioning of someone that is already reeling from attacks by others...however, what if I really was suspicious of Martell? What should I do, defend them? At this point, as I said, I am a bit less suspicious of Martell, although my suspicion remains somewhat because of Bolton's attempts to defend them recently. Bolton continues to attack the merits of the case based on a part of the case (gender slip) that is the most minor aspect of it. Frey pointed out that the issue is not so much that there was the gender slip, but that Martell lied about having done it (or so it seemed at the time). Of course, now it is clear that Martell just didn't understand that it was considered a gender slip, but Bolton is not pointing this out and I'm not sure why.

and you arent reading my posts or if you are, youre taking from them just what you want.

ive addressed all aspects of the case on martell. i disagree with 2 points. 1. i dont think hes defending tully. 2. i dont think he made a gender slip. the only other point that ive seen is his indignation which i agreed with. so please, what am i missing in the case? how am i looking at only the weak part?

i never said tully is innocent. i said i dont think they are partnrs together. do not misrepresent what i said.

YOU've addressed all aspects of the case on Martell? Why not let Martell do that?

I was not saying that you thought that Tully was innocent. My other issue with you is that you said that you thought Martell might be guilty, but that Tully could still be innocent. I am asking you to look at that dynamic and tell me what the fuck you are talking about. He has been clearly defending Tully, I don't think that is really something that can be argued. Why would an FM defend an innocent and get themselves into the trouble that Martell had been in.

[House Dayne]

That took you hours?

obviously the second i make a case im completely behind it and will not wait to confirm my suspicion! no, my vote has to come with the case!

it was confirming my vote that took hours, not the vote itself. honestly, i couldnt care less about bars vote, nor anybody elses. i agree with my case... if anybody else agrees, they can vote that way. if they dont, they shouldnt. if they do at first and change their minds, let them. bars welcome to vote however hed like. i maintain that his vote his completely unrelated to mine. believe what you will.

[House Wythers]

You are allowed to do anything you wish, just as I am allowed to view the game from my point of view. From where I'm standing, you look a bit shady. The burden is on you to convince me you're not.

And you kind of are parroting others' ideas - with just enough commentary to make it seem like you're contributing original and independent thought.

Of course I am allowed to do whatever I want. Remove vote, vote Frey. I am allowed to do that. However, I am discussing 'allowed' with respect to the fact that you assume that my vote was made with the intent to lynch and not to pressure. On the other hand, your votes (both on myself and Tully) are merely for pressure and your intent is not to lynch. I see contradiction and I am pointing it out to you.

I am 'kind of' parroting ideas, but giving my commentary...I have not come up with anything earthshattering, but what I have brought up has merit in my opinion, or at least enough that I think it will continue to pressure whomever I chose. My addition of commentary should make you happy. I am giving my thoughts on the matter so that people can understand where I am coming from and why I behave as I do. Is this not acceptable? Would you rather I not give my own commentary so that you have no idea what I am thinking? Maybe you would because it would make me an easier target for you.

im supposed to believe you waited the last 3 hours to drop a vote 15 minutes after baratheon did because of your computer? ok.

Good point here, despite any misgivings I've had about what you've said before. I am going to look back at a few things, one of which is that I recall thinking that Dayne was opportunistic before (likely with Tully, but I don't remember) so this could possibly be common behavior by Dayne.

[House Frey]

If you want a reason why Martell could be guilty and not alligned with Tully, just look to the last game. Ser Spider the SK was lynched because of his defense of an 'innocent' (Gertrude).

Bara - you have NOT added much to the discussion. You are parroting and quoting and posting on inconsequential things (clarifying roles, pointing out that I did quote the gender slip, etc). es, I made the same points, but I also made a bunch of other points.

You're pretty defensive, but then go all reasonable saying that you can see how I might think you're guilty, but wouldn't Dayne be a better choice? wink, wink. Your defense is not making me feel better about you.

[House Wythers]

obviously the second i make a case im completely behind it and will not wait to confirm my suspicion! no, my vote has to come with the case!

Yes, generally when you believe in a case you make you vote. Otherwise you are letting others do that dirty work for you so there is less of a connection between yourself and a lynch.

honestly, i couldnt care less about bars vote, nor anybody elses.

..also, Remove vote, I meant to do that at the end of my post but forgot. I was just making a point.

[House Tyrell]

YOU've addressed all aspects of the case on Martell? Why not let Martell do that?

he has. you are telling me im looking at weakest part of the case. thats not true. once again, youre misrepresenting the situation like im answering for martell when I'm clearly saying that Im not focused on the weakest part of the case but that i discussed everything.

I was not saying that you thought that Tully was innocent. My other issue with you is that you said that you thought Martell might be guilty, but that Tully could still be innocent. I am asking you to look at that dynamic and tell me what the fuck you are talking about. He has been clearly defending Tully, I don't think that is really something that can be argued. Why would an FM defend an innocent and get themselves into the trouble that Martell had been in.

i dont think hes defending tully. if he's guilty, hes acting like what he thinks an innocent would act like. 6 votes are put on someone for no reason and hes 3 votes from a lynch with potentially 4 or more evils. then he makes a comment that evils are on the mob but not really off. That to me, means hes defending the random lynch as innocents would do and then telling us to look at the lynch for our evils.

ETA: even more so, if Tully gets lynched like Gertrude was last game and flips innocent he looks good for defending the mob. its taking your WIFOM and using it against you. those are ways he could be guilty and tully innocent.

i already told you why i dont think they are partners. you just disagree. thats fine.

Bolton continues to attack the merits of the case based on a part of the case (gender slip) that is the most minor aspect of it. Frey pointed out that the issue is not so much that there was the gender slip, but that Martell lied about having done it (or so it seemed at the time). Of course, now it is clear that Martell just didn't understand that it was considered a gender slip, but Bolton is not pointing this out and I'm not sure why.

you are realling getting on my nerves. i never said Martell cannot be guilty because he didnt make the gender slip. i said i dont think he is guilty CUZ of it. get it? two completely different things and once again, youre twisting shit to your needs.

what am i not pointing out that im supposed to?

i'm gone for a bit

[House Wythers]

If you want a reason why Martell could be guilty and not alligned with Tully, just look to the last game. Ser Spider the SK was lynched because of his defense of an 'innocent' (Gertrude).

Fair enough, but I would have liked that to come from Bolton.

Bara - you have NOT added much to the discussion. You are parroting and quoting and posting on inconsequential things (clarifying roles, pointing out that I did quote the gender slip, etc). es, I made the same points, but I also made a bunch of other points.

I'm adding to discussion now though aren't I? At least a discussion between you and I.

You're pretty defensive, but then go all reasonable saying that you can see how I might think you're guilty, but wouldn't Dayne be a better choice? wink, wink. Your defense is not making me feel better about you.

I don't really view it as defensive, I am merely explaining the contradiction that I see in one of your main points. I suppose any kind of 'defense' would look 'defensive', no? I think it is pretty reasonable throughout, sadly I, of course, am not you. Dayne is a better fit for the reasons you've placed suspicion on me, I don't think that is something that you disagree with. I have not, yet, jumped on Dayne as a method of defending myself. They are, literally, a better fit for your attack than I am, you are welcome to see that and then choose to stick with me or with Dayne. It tells me a little bit more about you and what you think about Dayne. I am going to go back through the thread now, but will try and check up here to respond.

[House Dayne]

Yes, generally when you believe in a case you make you vote. Otherwise you are letting others do that dirty work for you so there is less of a connection between yourself and a lynch.

i was suspicious at first. those suspicions were confirmed over time. i never said i was wholly behind my own case. i don't mind being linked to a martell lynch. i personally believe right now that a martell lynch would give us the most information, as this is a cf game after all. of course, we havent seen posting from a good few of the other players, so this might change, but right now... i see no compelling reason to change my vote. most of what ive seen in rebuttal to what ive said is 'i dont agree.' thats not a rebuttal, really.