Randyll Tarly

[A wilding]

I doubt that what pre-Watch Sam became, despite his father's pressure, could be called a victory for anyone. ...

It was a kind of victory for Sam, if a pyrrhic one, in that he forced his father to give up on him.

... Even exile and total immersion in a warrior culture had no immediate effect. ...

After how Randyll has mentally crippled him, Sam is never going to be a fighter, total immersion in a warrior culture or no. Yet having got away from his father, we see him making groping steps towards becoming an effective person. It is interesting to consider that while he still considers himself a complete coward, he has managed to achieve a fair amount, and an outside perspective on him might well give a somewhat different impression.

[Hot Pie Targaryen]

Randyll doesn't strike me as evil, necessarily. He strikes me as more of an Archie Bunker type. Or even a southern conservative like Haley Barbour or Jesse Helms (younger of course). A jerk perhaps, self-righteous and narrow-minded, but not really evil. That aside I do find him to be one of the less likable characters.

[Kate Poem]

Maybe Randyll Tarly is'nt evil, but did evil things. He chained his son to wall by hand and leg in his dungeons; he said his son "I'll kill you and I'll lie to your mother about your death on hunt if you'll not go to Wall" and it was'nt joke.

Then in my eyes Randyll Tarly is/was very evil father. I think he was hurting not only Sam, but all family. Lady Tarly saw everything, the girls and little Dickon too. They were'nt blind and deaf.

[HighwayStar]

He may not be evil as Gregor or Ramsay Bolton, but he's definitely a very unpleasant character. Besides his treatment of Sam (which traumatized the boy big time, creating a vicious cycle of self-loathing), the way he behaves to Brienne is quite disgusting too - telling her that her father does not deserve to be cursed with a freak like her. Good military leader he might be, but I see him as a worthless human being, as well as a terrible father.

[Pallantides]

I think this quote by Yamamoto Tsuentomo is quite applicable to Randyll Tarly.

"A person who is said to be proficient is like a fool. Because of his foolishness in concerning himself with just one thing, he thinks of nothing else and thus becomes proficient. He is a worthless person".

[Black Amethyst]

No, I think Randyll Tarly is a complete dick. There really isn't any excuse for his behaviour. Cold and cruel. And he doesn't even make sense. Sending your son off to the wall to truck with a bunch of rapists, thieves and murderers? How is that better?

How does that make him better in the eyes of other noble houses? Not everyone is cut out to be a warrior. That's life. So Sam is fat. He's hardly an idiot. He could easily have had some kind of academic career at home. And if I am not mistaken, Sam is not the only son either. I believe he has a younger brother. Dickon or something? Wait for him to grow old enough to train. I can't imagine what Tarly would be like if he'd only had daughters. (which happens plenty) He should be ashamed of himself, not of his kids.

[Nihilist]

Great character that made some tough choices. Either you stick with a complete weakling and fool like Sam as your heir or you try to find someone worth his salt. He tried to toughen Sam up, and failed miserably. Could his methods have been better? Certainly, but I have no doubt that Sam would have remained the coward he was when he was sent to the wall no matter what Randyl did.

Frankly, kicking Sam's ass to the wall has worked out nicely for all parties.

So I don't find him evil at all. Just a Lord looking to keep his lands and not have his lineage get annihilated because his heir is an utter weakling.

[djhdjh]

Try looking at this from the character's POV rather than your own. He's a tough military leader in a tough military society. Your heir is showing no aptitude or inclination to carry on your line. Sam had to be got rid of to maintain the security of his lands. Threatening to kill him was harsh since Sam was so pathetic he would have agreed to go to the wall anyway. It's easy as a reader to see that he showed some worth on the Wall. We get no sense that he showed any worth at all before he got there. I don't think we know anywhere near enough about Tarly to make a judgement on him - he just seems a particularly tough general with all that this entails rather than a fleshed out character.

[chuck norris 42]

I hope Randyll Tarly meets more women that show the slightest hint of being independent, His serious belief that independent women can have sense " raped" into them is so ridiculous by our modern standards it is hilarious.

[Kate Poem]

Sam would have remained the coward he was when he was sent to the wall no matter what Randyl did.

Hmm, I don't think so. When your parent looks at you with hatred and disapointment, when your parent repeats you again and again "you are worthless, pig, coward etc. etc", you'll begin think that about yourself. You believe in the words of most important person who you know.

Great character that made some tough choices. Either you stick with a complete weakling and fool like Sam as your heir or you try to find someone worth his salt. He tried to toughen Sam up, and failed miserably.

Randyll Tarly personally was very, very little.

Sam was'nt fool. He was reading and writing without troubles, am I right?

Randyll did'nt try toughen his boy up. He made him weaker day by day. Little Sam lived in constant fear before his daddy. How, on Seven Hells, could he to be stronger in these circumstances? Every his own idea was crushed. For example: Citadel (dungeons, chains, no food).

He. Could. To. Love. His. Son. It's all.

So I don't find him evil at all. Just a Lord looking to keep his lands and not have his lineage get annihilated because his heir is an utter weakling.

I said earlier, maybe he is'nt evil. I am sure HE IS EVIL FATHER. Maybe he is good husband, good wassal, good military commander etc. etc... I don't know. But he is evil father.

He had Dickon. He has'nt any reasons to believe Sam will be fight with Dickon for Horn Hill and his sword. He has'nt any reasons to believe Sam did'nt love Dickon and want take something from his younger brother.

/sigh/

I am curious, why did he do what he did. "I'll kill you if you'll not take black." and I have'nt answer.

[Crannog Man]

I initially looked at this thread to try and find out where Horn Hill is because it's not on the Westeros maps in the books and also why Randyll is near Duskendale. Found out where Horn Hill is, 100 miles NE of Olde Town, and from reading here I understand that He was dispatched to the East to track down Glover's host? I am about 300 pages into AFFC and don't remember his moving accross the continent. Must've missed it in ASOS.

[Tammy]

I said earlier, maybe he is'nt evil. I am sure HE IS EVIL FATHER. Maybe he is good husband, good wassal, good military commander etc. etc... I don't know. But he is evil father.

He had Dickon. He has'nt any reasons to believe Sam will be fight with Dickon for Horn Hill and his sword. He has'nt any reasons to believe Sam did'nt love Dickon and want take something from his younger brother.

/sigh/

I am curious, why did he do what he did. "I'll kill you if you'll not take black." and I have'nt answer.

For Randyll, it's all about propriety. By rights, because Sam is the oldest son he inherits Horn Hill. But, as far as Randyll is concerned he isn't prepared to inherit Horn Hill. He can't fight, can't inspire loyalty, can't dispense justice - as far as Randyll is concerned. I think the only way to disinherit a son is if he joins the Kingsguard or the NW because they're forbidden to hold lands. And for Randyll it's all about propriety; he wants to make sure the son that he has deemed fit inherits and he wants it done legally and properly.

[Winterfell is Burning]

I don't know if it was mentioned here, but his wife is a Florent, and, with her father and brother attainted, would have been the one legally to inherit Brightwater Keep. Combined with Tarly's own lands, they would become one of the most powerful couples in Westeros.

Instead, it was given to Garlan Tyrell. I can't imagine him being too happy about that. Surely this could be a factor for him joining

Young Griff ? Maybe he's one of the "friends in the Reach

[cripples and broken things]

A great military commander he may be, a great person he is not. Let's face it: Tarly's an asshole. It may be my opinion only, but if your only redeemable characteristic is that you're good to have around in war-time and you're weak, and narrowed minded in everything else....that actually doesn't day much for you. And he is pretty evil to people that don't fit into the neat little box he thinks they should be in. The fact that he seemed to actually prefer Brienne to get raped than to see her return unscathed after slaying her attackers was almost as disturbing if not more than when he chained Sam in a dungeon for three days. All because it wasn't fitting into his ordered, cookie cutter mold of how people and things should be.

Unwittingly, the best thing he ever did for his son was send him to the wall. Not because it would make Sam a good warrior, but because it got Sam the hell away from him. Trust me, Sam irritates me to high heaven sometimes but can you imagine growing up in that house never feeling like you were worth anything because your Dad could not get it through his thick skull that you were just NOT GOOD AT what he wanted you to be good at.

I get why Tarly wanted Sam to be good at the manly man stuff, hell, I see why he needed it. But a million dollars will not appear because I need it to happen. The smart thing to do would have been to let Sam hone the skills that he was good at and then send him on his way to be a maester. Then Dickon could still be Lord of Horn Hill and do (presumably) what he's good at. But no. Sam doesn't fit into the box. So Sam must disappear or die.

[Damar]

That's a good question. Sam probably wasn't born weighing several hundred pounds, if Randyll really wanted, couldn't he have told Sam to.. do something?

He did. He tried everything, from hiring a dozen different men-at-arms to instruct Sam, to having him sleep in armor, to having him bathed in blood by necromancers. Nothing worked, Sam remained fat and a self-admitting coward.

[the Scorpion Knight]

A great military commander he may be, a great person he is not. Let's face it: Tarly's an asshole.

let's agree on asshole with principles and honesty.

on the otherside he's the one who told brienne about the bet. and DOESN'T call her kingslayer or cheater.

(i think his problem with brienne is that she's a woman out of her place in society)

... to having him bathed in blood by necromancers. Nothing worked, Sam remained fat and a self-admitting coward.

considering what sam is doing now my bet is that the Quarthian Warlocks worked a little bit late but it worked

[idreamofpikas]

Sam was educated, clothed, fed and looked after, given music kittens and books to spend his time with till he was an adult and then told to leave. In this day and age that is a fair upbringing in medieval times that was probably considered being spoilt. I bet the 95% of his black brothers(even Jon) would have gladly swapped their childhood for his.

Had he not been 1st born or female I'm sure Randyll would have shown him more affection and tolerance but as irst born the Tarly name lives with him. Its not about being a warrior but a competent leader, which clearly he showed no sign of. Sam's a nice guy and had hidden depths of courage but as a Lord he'd useless and would be jeopardizing Randyll's grandchildren and great-grandchildrens inheritance.

Jaime is a much much worse father than Randyll, Craster is a genuine evil father while even Ned abandoned his two youngest children(one on his crippled deathbed) and sent another to the Wall for a life of servitude and misery..

[Tammy]

Sam was educated, clothed, fed and looked after, given music kittens and books to spend his time with till he was an adult and then told to leave. In this day and age that is a fair upbringing in medieval times that was probably considered being spoilt. I bet the 95% of his black brothers(even Jon) would have gladly swapped their childhood for his.

Had he not been 1st born or female I'm sure Randyll would have shown him more affection and tolerance but as irst born the Tarly name lives with him. Its not about being a warrior but a competent leader, which clearly he showed no sign of. Sam's a nice guy and had hidden depths of courage but as a Lord he'd useless and would be jeopardizing Randyll's grandchildren and great-grandchildrens inheritance.

Jaime is a much much worse father than Randyll, Craster is a genuine evil father while even Ned abandoned his two youngest children(one on his crippled deathbed) and sent another to the Wall for a life of servitude and misery..

I totally agree. I think that Sam could eventually become a good lord, but only after having been forced to do things he'd rather not do in the NW has he started to show any potential for that. There wasn't even a tiny indication of this while he lived at home with his father.

[Damar]

even Ned abandoned his two youngest children(one on his crippled deathbed) and sent another to the Wall for a life of servitude and misery..

I'm pretty sure Jon himself wanted to go to the Wall, with several characters trying to make him think otherwise including Benjen Stark.

[Tammy]

I'm pretty sure Jon himself wanted to go to the Wall, with several characters trying to make him think otherwise including Benjen Stark.

Jon did want to go to the wall, and when it was initially brought to Ned's attention as Catelyn was refusing for him to stay in Winterfell and he knew he couldn't bring Jon with him to KL, Ned didn't want Jon to go to the wall. He said it might be fine for him later in life after he had a chance to live, but ended up relenting, after being nudged by the maester, and allowed him to go to the wall anyway.

Catelyn was the one who convinced Ned to go to KL anyway as she was certain if he didn't go, Robert would take that as a sign that he was reaching for the throne himself and might fight him. Then especially after they had the letter from Lysa, they didn't think there was any way around him going.