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Linda

DISCUSS: Player wiki

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I haven't had a chance to figure out how to setup account creation yet. :)

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I'd like to see if we can nail down the types of entries we will have, so that we can determine a format for each type.

So far, I have:

Profiles - For staff & player pages, OOC rather than IC information. These would be categorized as current staff, former staff, current players, former players.

Characters - For character pages, with information that is not in the CDB. Not sure how to categorize these. Per region?

Other than that, I am not sure what types of pages to have. However, we have more suggestions for content.

Player-created resources, for example (like maps), where should they go? And what about IC quotes? Should they just go on the character pages?

So, what I need help with is suggestions for specific types of entries, so we can nail down the types of templates we need, as well as suggestions for what sort of content will go within each type of entry.

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If you would like an account for the wiki, +mail me on the game with the name & password you want and the email to register you with. I'll get the accounts setup and +mail back login info.

But before people dive in and start adding things, I'd like to work out the details mentioned in the previous post, so make sure to consider those questions. :) I am not very used to working with wikis myself, so I am feeling a bit uncertain about how to approach the structure and how to make it easy to keep the content looking similar from one entry to another. :)

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Is there still any interest in this? If so, we really need to try to figure out a structure. Just adding things without a plan seems like a recipe for quite a mess. Some feedback on each of the points below would be very useful. :)

1) As far as I can see, there seems to be no interest in player profiles, so we will scrap that idea. The staff profiles will probably go too. However, I've seen it mentioned elsewhere that people like knowing something (from the website, that is) about who are staffing on a certain game. What's the thought of this? Should we have staff presentations somewhere? Or just a list somewhere on the front page and maybe a command on the MUSH showing more information about a specific member of staff?

2) If the player profiles go, we don't have to worry about name conflicts with the character profiles. I am thinking we'll need to use name and housename to name these, to make sure they're clear enough. But how should we organize them (alphabeticall, region, anything else?) and what sort of default 'fields' should a page have?

3) The only other thing I have on my list is player resources. This could be links to player pages, uploaded player resources (like maps) and other things. Any further thoughts on what could fit in here? I don't think it needs much of a structure, it looks like it won't be too many pages.

4) Currently, it looks like the wiki will have two main sections, Character Profiles and Player Resources. Is there anything else you'd like to see? If so, where does it fit in, or does it need another section?

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Is there a character wiki? Because I clicked the link and apparently dragons ate it :(

Coming from a forum-based rp, I strongly support the creation of a player wiki. I for one (being new) find the MUSH challenging to ask for character information etc. Furthermore a wiki enables members to create full character biographies which contain links to other character pages or locations. From my personal experience I can say it's a very synoptic and clear way to provide information to one another.

I believe family-trees and relationship diagrams are also easily implemented.

It's also accesible for anyone who has internet connection.

Moreover, a wiki is a very user-friendly system. Apart from a few basic coding-format which you would have to know or at least have access to, text is easily added, edited or removed.

My final argument is that members can upload images to it, which would greatly add to the esthetic of your page.

Sorry for necromancing this thread.

Just my opinion :).

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Oops, looks like the link was wrong all this time: http://www.westeros.org/BoD/Profiles/

However, I guess that shows the lack of interest, unfortunately. This doesn't seem to be anything most players have any real desire for, I am afraid.

Part of the problem, no doubt, is that some of the things you suggest cannot be done for Blood of Dragons:

1) The wiki could not contain the same kind of information that is in the CDB on the game because its already a heavy workload for the Admin to make sure that is kept updated. Having similar information duplicated in the wiki would mean even more checking for us. When we approve someone for a character, we want to be able to easily grab all relevant information from the CDB, and not have to worry about also sending them to the wiki.

The wiki was intended as a complementary resource to the CDB, but not a way of updating your history there instead of on the game, for example. And family trees we already have at http://www.westeros.org/BoD/Houses/ :)

2) The wiki has proven hard to use for players because its not Media Wiki based.

3) The issue with images is that it often leads to content with copyright issues, such as actor photos or copyrighted art.

So, all in all, I am not sure it is going anywhere, unfortunately. We may try to setup some more example profiles, to show how we expected it to be used, and see if it creates any more interest.

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Huh! I wasn't even aware that we had a page like this, and I'd thought myself fairly well researched. And as usual, Luthor is 3 steps ahead of me. Time to play catch-up. ;)

It does look like this page would be an incredibly useful roleplay resource, for when you need to know what kind of hook will be necessary to play with someone, or in crafting a scene for multiple people, to decide where it would be plausible for all of them to meet...or just to generally not be completely icly knowledgeless of another person even though their history is well known or at least marginally discussed.

The only problem with that, of course, is that without a big number of folks on the list, the resource falls by the wayside. I'll at least chip in my two cents, though.

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What we had hoped was that the wiki would act as complementary to the CDB, allowing a one-page presentation of a character with some more fun!quirky options for things to note down. More...social, I guess. The CDB can still provide everything in terms of history, relations, etc, but of course it is not on the web.

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Hmm, I stumbled on here - yes, I think it would do much good if everyone who's playing updated information on their character (like simple copy+paste into the needed places on the page from the +CDB). I believe it would help a lot the new players who still don't exactly grasp all the intricate links and webs of familiarity and blood-ties.

For me, the best would be two things:

- a (once every x-time) update of the Houses pages - they still give most of the information about the situation in the Kingdom and since they were left almost untouched since the beginnign of the game (158AL) the current situation does not exactly match (162AL).

- a more newbie-friendly compendium of knowledge. I.E. I started to wonder who's in the Kingsguard at the moment - and I only found that information after half an hour of digging through files and pages, on the Houses page and... there are only 4 living members named (another 5 deceased). Does that mean that the Kingsguard only has 4 members at the moment or there were some added, but they were still not updated on the page?

Unfortunately the information is scattered around the BoD page, the BoD in-game database (which is not easily accecible for... let's say people who have some time at work, but a blocked port or a couple which make it impossible to - you catch my drift), and eventually on different Wiki's (Citadel, AWOIAF, etc.). And sometimes it is hard to keep track of it all. I know this probably was discussed before and I understand that this is just some newbie's voice from down below pouting at things that are hard to do (or cannot be done). I believe I just needed to vent myself. Though one way or the other - I still believe that it shouldn't be -that- hard for the players to update their profiles, so that people like myself could at least have an understanding who's taken, who stands where in the King's Landing/Dorne web of intrigues, who can a new character know and whom not, etc.

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We'd love to do what you suggest, but there simply isn't time enough to do it. Balerion does most of the work on the game as it is and updating the family trees would take an enormous amount of time.

That said, we do accept suggestions for specific updates such as for deaths, betrothals/marriages, additions of children and changes in position (squires becoming knights, etc).

As for the Kingsguard -- yes, its lacking members since Baelor hasn't appointed new ones to cover those killed in Dorne. It will happen once he is well enough.

I definitely agree that some way of presenting crucial information in one place would be great, but I just haven't come up with a good solution. Which information do we select and where do we put it?

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I think we should somehow make this a "four-pronged" attack:

One - a comprehensible and simple guide to commands in BoD. The "newbie path" show only a really small amount of information and a lot of help files in-game are hard to access or find (the commands needed are sometimes convoluted and user un-friendly). A couple commands of the pose/@emit/page type. Fighting (melee/joust). +CDB accessibility, looking through the char sheets and information. A compendium of things now scattered around a couple helpfiles, articles and some in-game help info (especially ones not too obvious, like the combat,etc.).

Two - also a compendium of knowledge, but this time BoD realm and time only. Merging of the more general (King's Landing overview, Organizations, Geography, etc.) with the in-game specific (who holds the positions in King's landing, what is the status of the organizations and who leads them, where exactly are we playing, etc.). Maybe a sort of Profiles-lite page, where there could be updated information of which characters are taken, what titles do they hold, etc? A sort of easier to follow profiles page, with little information, but allowing for a general overview of the characters and their ravailability...

Three -the aforementioned Profiles. As I proposed before - if only people would just copy+paste the information from the +CDB. maybe all they actually need is a little motivation? Maybe if you announced that every player that updates their character's profiles page receives 1XP (or 3, I dunno) that would make them think if it's worthwhile? Just a suggestion, really.

Four - the Houses, yes. I know it's probably tedious work and whatnot, but maybe there's a way people could help, contribute? Even I sometimes have an hour or a half during worktime, when I could help with filling out some information (since I can't log onto BoD due to port blocking). And I'm sure there'd be others who would gladly help having a minute or twenty of free time. I don't know, of course, how difficult this is and maybe such freelance work would not be possible, but maybe it would?

I don't know if this is any help or anything that hasn't already been discussed a lot or maybe it's just impossible to do, but I (for now, of course, with barely a week and a half behind my belt) like this game and can clearly see that it's a tad difficult for the newcomer, especially one who hadn't played MUSHes (or even MUDs), so a relatively comprehensible, simple and accessible of such almanachs of information (both solid in-game mechanics as well as solid in-game knowledge) would be mutually beneficial, methinks.

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1) We can look at this (though not before this season ends, most likely, and then we may be too busy with the "World of Ice and Fire), though I would note that we'd never put any combat commands in a newbie guide -- it would give the wrong impression :)

Where should this guide be, though? On the game? On the website? You have +help newbie on the game, for example.

2) Have a look at http://www.westeros.org/BoD/Articles/ -- doesn't that cover it?

3) The profiles are not really setup to be just a CDB copy. It does have History and Persona, so yes, people could copy that, but the rest of the fields don't match to CDB stuff. So it would take a bit more work. But we might consider XP rewards for it, yes. :)

4) Unfortunately, doing much with the houses is really difficult for anyone outside of myself and Balerion. The best we can do there is accept suggestions for changes and updates to make.

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