Gabriele Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Because I always wanted to start one of those threads. :) You know the rules, fellow lemmings: 1. No personal attacks. 2. No trolling. 3. No feeding the yeard. Enjoy the thread! Thanks to Moosicus for the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Sweet. A bit premature though, we were only half way through the last thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriele Posted March 21, 2008 Author Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Moosicus' post='1283621' date='Mar 21 2008, 19.35']Sweet. A bit premature though, we were only half way through the last thread.[/quote] Oops, I thought 20 pages was the turning point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diabloblanco18 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Gabriele' post='1283637' date='Mar 21 2008, 10.44']Oops, I thought 20 pages was the turning point.[/quote] It is. Well, 400 or so posts, to be exact. Good job, though. You chose death by abandoning the thread when it's time had come. Moose's concerns, however, are life-choosing, and we all know where [i]that[/i] leads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 D'oh! I completely forgot that I changed my settings to show 40 posts per page. I was looking at the thread and it only showed 10 pages where it would normally be 20. I wasn't looking at post-count. Silly me. As an act of contrition I will now insert a parasitic earwig into my brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Well, while I love the randomness of the thread. I'm going to make some observations. * I'm actually enjoying the books. * Part of the fun of the books is the juxataposition of Objectivism over its Quasi-Medieval worldview. I can't get too honestly worked up over the matter because, even at his most barbaric, Richard is actually fairly lenient by real world standards. It's the great irony that Richard is in a "standard fantasy world" and is a ruthless and brutal protagionist. Except, if Richard was dumped into Westeros, the characters bizarre personal quirks aside, the guy wouldn't stand out AT ALL. Whiny as she may be, Kahlan isn't that different from Cate Stark. * I don't much care for the moralizing within the Sword of Truth. I guess, bizarrely, one of my big problems with the books is that Terry Goodkind drapes the book in sexuality but never really has any payoff. Richard is surrounded by his bevy of harem like ladies but focuses on the distinctly unlikable Khaleen. Richard's prudishness got old after Book 1. Maybe I'm too used to James Bond and Conan. * I'm only to [b]Soul of the Fire[/b] and another trouble I have is the fact that I don't get what sort of economic system or statements that Terry Goodkind is really trying to make. Too much of it feels contrived and unlikely to really be understood. Otherwise, I've so far enjoyed the world he's created despite its weird modern politics and social values. * I appreciate the books are largely self-contained, which is something I'm pleased at after so many books where the plot seems to stop at the end of the novel rather than actually go any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foreverlad Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Charles, By Soul of the Fire, Goodkind was only just starting to 'speak up' against the specifics of our own world. Take a look at the names of the leader and his wife. The initials are that of Bill and Hillary Clinton. Most of us don't care that Tairy has an opinion on something. What gets us to despising is the way he manages to turn his opinions into supposed 'moral truth'. Tairy has a specific plan for each book, so if he needs an uneducated populace to make a bad decision, he sets it up with the same silly argument that becomes prevalent after the book after SotF. If/when you reach Faith of the Fallen you'll see a huge departure from his old formula. Faith of the Fallen begins his new 'old formula' that he'll maintain until the series comes to a close with Confessor. Thing is, after his first 3 books, people caught on to just how similar Tairy's ideas were to that of Robert Jordan's. From there on out you'll see a lot less 'creative fantasy' and a lot more philosophical masturbation. After all, Tairy needed something to fill those pages with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Gabriele' post='1283613' date='Mar 21 2008, 14.30']Because I always wanted to start one of those threads. :)[/quote] That's choosing life! :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diabloblanco18 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Triskele' post='1283778' date='Mar 21 2008, 13.20']Foreverlad, as you have bravely read the whole series, here's a question: Does TG's writing get any better? And by that, I don't mean his philosophical ramblings...I mean his prose. I have laughed out loud at times reading WFR at how amateurish he is. I would have thought that if he presented WFR to someone, they would say "I don't think writing is your thing." More fool I. Instead he presented it to someone and became a multi-millinaire author.[/quote] I don't think the prose itself gets any better. If it did, we wouldn't be getting gems like "coiled fury." However, I myself stopped noticing as much absolutely horrendous dialogue after WFR. Maybe I just got used to it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Charles Phipps' post='1283677' date='Mar 21 2008, 15.21']Well, while I love the randomness of the thread. I'm going to make some observations. * I'm actually enjoying the books.[/quote] No one's ever said one wasn't allowed to enjoy reading. [quote name='Charles Phipps' post='1283677' date='Mar 21 2008, 15.21']* Part of the fun of the books is the juxataposition of Objectivism over its Quasi-Medieval worldview. I can't get too honestly worked up over the matter because, even at his most barbaric, Richard is actually fairly lenient by real world standards. It's the great irony that Richard is in a "standard fantasy world" and is a ruthless and brutal protagionist. Except, if Richard was dumped into Westeros, the characters bizarre personal quirks aside, the guy wouldn't stand out AT ALL.[/quote] I really don't agree. There truly seems to be no real rhyme or reason to anything Richaard does. Even when the characters of Martin's world are being thier most brutal or honest, there seems to be logic to it. This isn't something I can find in GK. Especially later GK. [quote name='Charles Phipps' post='1283677' date='Mar 21 2008, 15.21']Whiny as she may be, Kahlan isn't that different from Cate Stark.[/quote] No. Even if one thinks of Catelyn as "whiny", something I don't know that I agree with, she's a broadly drawn and developed character with motivation and reason. Catelyn is possibly the best written character in all of ASOIAF. Kahlan? Not so much. [quote name='Charles Phipps' post='1283677' date='Mar 21 2008, 15.21']* I'm only to [b]Soul of the Fire[/b] and another trouble I have is the fact that I don't get what sort of economic system or statements that Terry Goodkind is really trying to make. Too much of it feels contrived and unlikely to really be understood.[/quote] See, you do get it! When TG figures outhow that stuff is supposed to work, maybe he'll let us know too. :P [quote name='Charles Phipps' post='1283677' date='Mar 21 2008, 15.21']Otherwise, I've so far enjoyed the world he's created despite its weird modern politics and social values.[/quote] Why though? It's because you accept the world as a somewhat pedestrian, somewhat cliched fantasy world. Too bad that isn't at all what TG wants you to think about his "master work"... Oops. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigoTheCarpathian Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Triskele, I've finished all the books, and his writing does not improve. It stays pretty mediocre up until Pillars of Creation, which because you do not have Dick/Klan to follow, dissolves into a sort of trudging dumbness as you follow around a retarded killer and a goat-loving ignoramus. Also, once you hit NE, his "veiled" moralizing dissolves into injecting major fragments (speeches, analogies, and dream sequences) of straight Objectivist crap into the book, with no story progression to back it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 Pillars of Creation is pretty pointless, however it does give some more unintentional comedy. Tairy attempts to show how disturbed Oba (retarded killer) is, but it's pretty hilarious instead. Not "evil chicken" kind of hilarity, but funny nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.T. Phipps Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote]No. Even if one thinks of Catelyn as "whiny", something I don't know that I agree with, she's a broadly drawn and developed character with motivation and reason. Catelyn is possibly the best written character in all of ASOIAF. Kahlan? Not so much.[/quote] I disagree. I find her an annoying shrew with almost zero political ability, but that's neither here nor there. [quote]Why though? It's because you accept the world as a somewhat pedestrian, somewhat cliched fantasy world. Too bad that isn't at all what TG wants you to think about his "master work"... Oops. lol.gif[/quote] I'm not one who really accepts "cliche" as a valid offense. I'm a great fan of Star Wars and that was a archetypal story. oh well, I'll accept everyone's words it goes down from here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Charles Phipps' post='1283845' date='Mar 21 2008, 17.23']oh well, I'll accept everyone's words it goes down from here.[/quote] Like a toilet flushing, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted March 21, 2008 Share Posted March 21, 2008 [quote name='Moosicus' post='1283801' date='Mar 21 2008, 12.42']Pillars of Creation is pretty pointless, however it does give some more unintentional comedy. Tairy attempts to show how disturbed Oba (retarded killer) is, but it's pretty hilarious instead. Not "evil chicken" kind of hilarity, but funny nonetheless.[/quote] Pillars of Creation was easily the best book of the series. Probably because Big Dick wasn't in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 [quote name='Myshkin' post='1283983' date='Mar 21 2008, 19.49']Pillars of Creation was easily the best book of the series. Probably because Big Dick wasn't in it.[/quote] It should have ended with Oba killing Dick, then the rest of the series could have followed Oba on his adventures. The speeches would have been more interesting, and the slaughter of innocent people would make sense in light of the fact that Oba is insane. Far easier to justify than anything Ol' Dick has done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myshkin Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 [quote name='Moosicus' post='1284068' date='Mar 21 2008, 16.08']It should have ended with Oba killing Dick, then the rest of the series could have followed Oba on his adventures. The speeches would have been more interesting, and the slaughter of innocent people would make sense in light of the fact that Oba is insane. Far easier to justify than anything Ol' Dick has done.[/quote] I would totally read that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosicus Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 [quote name='Myshkin' post='1284073' date='Mar 21 2008, 21.12']I would totally read that![/quote] I can see an entire chapter devoted to Oba raping Betty. He would justify it by claiming that Betty is a whore who was asking for it by enticing him with her sexy bleating. "Oba laughed, Cara slapped Betty on the ass and laughed, all the men laughed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
respectabull Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 I'm not going to lie. I enjoyed them while I read them. My brain enjoyed living at a lower level than it is used to.... kinda like a mental vacation. I swear, there must have been pages in NE that I just stared at and eventually flipped the page. I don't think I even really tried to read the speeches... lol. Anyways, I enjoyed the Chainfire Arch... it got very annoying with the whole "No one believes me, but I'm going to do things my way no matter what." I actually felt that the contrived situations were all right, and I enjoyed seeing characters disagree with Richard and tell him "I think you are wrong." The end? doo doo on a stick. oh, MY FAVORITE PART OF THE WHOLE SERIES SPOILER: Confessor when the prelate gets blown up in the Palace of the prophets. But yeah, no more Tairy for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Maid Posted March 22, 2008 Share Posted March 22, 2008 [quote name='Charles Phipps' post='1283677' date='Mar 22 2008, 03.21']Whiny as she may be, Kahlan isn't that different from Cate Stark.[/quote] Not a Catelyn fan myself (I do think she's one of the best written character in ASoIaF though, but I'm not overly fond of her. Mommy issues, I guess), but I think Cait is WAY, WAY far above Kahlan. For one thing, Cat has not had her own sister gang-raped (who had been previously gang-raped) because she refused to join in their cause. Kahlan did that to her half-sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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