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[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] Jon 3 but actually Jon 1

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Is there some pressing reason why Craster and his baby factory have to die now? If there isn't, it's probably still more convenient for them to have him producing and giving over sons. And sheep, I suppose, without a fight. Why do they need them? Who knows. Craster's wife Ferny seemed to believe the sons [i]became[/i] Others, though that could well be wrong.

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[quote name='urizen' post='1317822' date='Apr 17 2008, 02.48']Does anybody have an idea as to how Craster managed to make his deal with the Others? How does he communicate with them? What's stopping the Others from simply swoop in and kill everybody at Craster's, sacrifice or no?[/quote]

Presumably nothing's _stopping_ them. But if they need babies for whatever reason, they have to offer something in return. Nobody would help them if they thought that their household would still be attacked.

Anyway, it seems like a relatively smart decision. Sending wights on baby-stealing raids seems like it would be costly; babies are more likely to be with the rest of the clan, and hence relatively well-defended, and who knows if you'd end up with a live baby at the end of it. (I assume too that Craster isn't the only one to come up with this plan either, and there are other baby factories out there.)

I assume that the sheep serve as a token of loyalty--"I am giving of my own flock, taking food out of my own mouth, in order to show that I worship you"--and a kind of implicit promise that the next time a son comes around, they'll be getting it. Edited by The Fat Man

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[quote name='Ran' post='1317842' date='Apr 17 2008, 02.18']Is there some pressing reason why Craster and his baby factory have to die now? If there isn't, it's probably still more convenient for them to have him producing and giving over sons. And sheep, I suppose, without a fight. Why do they need them? Who knows. Craster's wife Ferny seemed to believe the sons [i]became[/i] Others, though that could well be wrong.[/quote]
Maybe you can create only wights from dead people, but it takes live ones to create Others? And not surprisingly, most adults aren't willing to go along for that particular ride?

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[quote name='Sansa' date='AGoT']Frog-faced Lord Slynt sat at the end of the council table wearing a black
velvet doublet and a shiny cloth-of-gold cape, nodding with approval every
time the king pronounced a sentence. Sansa stared hard at his ugly face,
remembering how he had thrown down her father for Ser Ilyn to behead, wishing
she could hurt him, wishing that some hero would throw him down and cut off
his head. But a voice inside her whispered, There are no heroes [...][/quote]

Someone send a raven to the Vale, please - the hero Sansa wished for is her own 'bastard brother' :thumbsup:.

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[quote name='LugaJetBoyGirl' post='1294125' date='Mar 31 2008, 10.31']'Take him to the wall,' Jon says, 'and hang him.'

Slynt freaks, yelling, struggling, kicking as they throw him into the cage and start lifting. 'I have friends, if Tywin Lannister were alive you would never...' His voice fades away as he is lifted to the top. The rope they found was a hundred feet long but the wall is seven hundred feet tall. They hear his neck crack as he hits the end of the rope.[/quote]


YAY! Finally, someone who died deserves it.

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Wow, that is awesome, Jon is one of my favorite characters and this just made him so much more badass. I just hope that GRRM doesn't really 'kill the boy' in Jon, I like how he isn't quite grown up yet and I wouldn't like to see him lose his inner child so completely and so quickly. Oh and just a side note, when Samwell goes to Oldtown in the end of AFFC and meets the other novices, he meets Pate, but wasn't he killed by the alchemist? Or was he just knocked out? I was thinking maybe that alchemist was a faceless man, b/c he matched the description of one of the men Arya had met.

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Welcome to the board Capoeirista13 :)

And good call: the Pate we meet at the beginning is not the Pate we meet at the end.

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[quote name='LugaJetBoyGirl' post='1294264' date='Mar 31 2008, 00.20']He also had Long Claw strapped across his back, which is one of the reasons Thorne backs down. And I don't think it is Jon's habit to wear that thing to breakfast :) He knew there might be a fight coming.[/quote]

:drool: awesome!!! i can't wait to see more of jon with Longclaw..hope he has improved as a swordsman.But,what a chapter!!
And its great news that Jon is gonna be a grey character from now on..he has so much bad-ass potential,that it is impossible to bring it out unless he steps out of Ned's shoes and stop the whole honour BS(atleast to some extent).

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[quote name='LugaJetBoyGirl' post='1294125' date='Mar 31 2008, 06.01']They hear his neck crack as he hits the end of the rope.

Jon glances back at Stannis. Stannis nods, then turns and goes back inside.[/quote]
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!
JON YOU FUCKN KILLED HIM! (The Boy)

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What about what's going to happen with Robb's last will and testament? Making Jon his heir? Wouldn't the situation be like Brandon and Eddard? Wouldn't Jon marry Jeyne and raise his kid as his own and rule the North?

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[quote name='Vendetto' post='1580771' date='Nov 7 2008, 05.59']What about what's going to happen with Robb's last will and testament? Making Jon his heir? Wouldn't the situation be like Brandon and Eddard? Wouldn't Jon marry Jeyne and raise his kid as his own and rule the North?[/quote]

I have a feeling Jajne and her child wont last that long ...
Anyway, I wondered something about that sample chapter MArtin posted on his site:
<"This is my place as it is yours, and soon enough you may have grave need of me. Do not refuse my friendship, Jon. I have seen you in the storm, hard pressed, with enemies on every side. You have so many enemies. Shall I tell you their names?"
"I know their names."
"Do not be so certain." The ruby at Melisandre's throat gleamed redly. "It is not the foes who curse you to your face that you must fear, but those who smile when you are looking and sharpen their knives when you turn your back. You would do well to keep your wolf close beside you. Ice, I see, and daggers in the dark. Blood frozen red and hard, and naked steel. It was very cold."
"[b]It is always cold on the Wall."
"You think so?"
"I know so, my lady."
"Then you know nothing, Jon Snow," she whispered[/b].>

Ok, so Melisandre is obviously talking about wall, she repeats exact words Jigrrite used to say, and she mentions warmth on the wall... does she know about Jon and Jigrrite?

And i dont want her near JON, evil *****!!!!!

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Wrong Jon chapter... Edited by Odie

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Certainly adds some new dimension to his character, actively making decisions and living with the consequences and whatnot. I look forward to Jon's growth, for better or worse.

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Must have missed something, but when did Jon threaten to kill Gilly's baby? I see it repeated a few times in the thread, but from the first post, it seems that Jon forced Gilly to flee south with Mance's baby to save the babe, and he promised Gilly that her child would be safe when they revealed it was not Mance's baby. In AFFC, it was implied (if I remember rightly) that Jon forced Gilly to go with Mance's baby, but it also wasn't stated that it was through the threat to the life of her own.

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Sooth,

After the initial chapter posting, other listeners added some details for the chapter (The details are scattered through the first couple of pages of this topic). A summation: "Jon promises Gilly that if she won't leave with Mance's baby then on the day that Mance's baby is killed, hers will die the same day. He makes her stick her hand in the candle flame to feel how much worse it would be to die by fire. She has no choice about it so she runs from the room."

Hope that helps.

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Thanks. Misread that part of the post. I thought she was commenting about the initial post, and not adding to it. :blushing:

Edited by sooth

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Just had a small thought about the wall based off reading the earlier posts in this thread. Could definately be wrong with it but here I go..

The wall was originally hundreds of feet shorter than it is currently. Every Lord Commander until "recently", and I am not certain how recent that is, has tried to leave the wall taller than when they became Lord Commander. To my thought process that means so much of the wall above a certain point is just normal stone and ice with no warding magic whatsoever. This means that if you brought the corpses, wights, others, wargs, Melisandre, or even Stannis's sword up high enough there would be no leftover magic from Bran the Builder and the Children to ward their magic away.

Then again I cannot remember how near the wights got on the south side to opening the gate, nor do I remember if the Lord Commander's tower is above the original portions of the wall or under and behind it..

As far as John hanging Slynt? Good enough, but I'd much rather see John proclaimed King of the North and Mance as Lord of the Gift being his hand. North would steamroll the south if given enough time to train all the wildlings with a little a "Southern" discipline.

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Guest Other-in-law

The wall was originally hundreds of feet shorter than it is currently. Every Lord Commander until "recently", and I am not certain how recent that is, has tried to leave the wall taller than when they became Lord Commander. To my thought process that means so much of the wall above a certain point is just normal stone and ice with no warding magic whatsoever.

Or the nature of the spells means that they infuse the entire structure, including new additions. Since they were adding to it from the earliest years, that seems likely. Or that the spells involve something like a force field (to use scifi terminology) estending up into the sky. Somehow I don't think they can be circumvented by simply not touching the material infused with the spell; if so the wights could batter through the gate just by wearing boots and gloves.

Then again I cannot remember how near the wights got on the south side to opening the gate, nor do I remember if the Lord Commander's tower is above the original portions of the wall or under and behind it..

All of the buildings of Castle Black are south of the Wall, save maybe a warming shack at the top for the men operating the winch.

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Or the nature of the spells means that they infuse the entire structure, including new additions. Since they were adding to it from the earliest years, that seems likely. Or that the spells involve something like a force field (to use scifi terminology) estending up into the sky. Somehow I don't think they can be circumvented by simply not touching the material infused with the spell; if so the wights could batter through the gate just by wearing boots and gloves.

All of the buildings of Castle Black are south of the Wall, save maybe a warming shack at the top for the men operating the winch.

I'm not so much of a fan with the forcefield spreading itself over additions, but I do agree it's plausible from your points considering my theory uses it to a more minor extent. As for my ignorance on remembering where the Castle Black buildings are.. bugger my ignorance and theories.

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