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[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] "New" POV 1 - Spoilers for ADwD

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Hum. That sample is way shorter than a usual chapter, yet the begining and ending do look like the real ones. I wonder what is missing ? Description ? That would make a lot of description.

Maybe a flashback/account of the immediate afterfall of Winterfell. Like Theon's arrival to the Dreadfort.

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[quote name='Ibsen's Crawfish' post='1441733' date='Jul 16 2008, 00.21']Hum. That sample is way shorter than a usual chapter, yet the begining and ending do look like the real ones. I wonder what is missing ? Description ? That would make a lot of description.

Maybe a flashback/account of the immediate afterfall of Winterfell. Like Theon's arrival to the Dreadfort.[/quote]

I think it's just a very short chapter. The next Theon chapter should be more interesting and informative.

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Theon, my poor baby! I feel a bit like I'm reading the fantasy equivalent of a Lifetime movie, I have to admit...

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_70104465_1?ie=UTF8&docId=1000194603&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_s=special-offers-3&pf_rd_r=01JZFXDJP8Y08EF5BX2E&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=201833191&pf_rd_i=0002247399"]Here's[/url] the sample, if people want to know.

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Poor Theon. What did they do to him?

When he said 'Sansa was the pretty one. He remembered a time when he had thought that Lord Eddard Stark might marry him to Sansa and claim him for a son, but that had only been a child’s fancy.' it really cut me up. Theon was once innocent and naive.

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[quote name='Night Watchman' post='1448744' date='Jul 21 2008, 05.00']Theon was once innocent and naive.[/quote]
Yeah. And pretty :smash: I suppose we ought to be grateful Ramsey didn't test him out or anything when he first came to the Dreadfort. I mean, that we know of :devil:

No seriously, I love Theon. Poor boy. :( Edited by Joanna Nox

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[i]What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger.[/i]
Great chapter again, and I hope Ramsay is skinning Theon's ironborn skin away, and even more so I hope that underneath it, there is Starkisch direwolf pelt that will eventually turn against his Boltonic masters.

Some advise for potential readers of the spoiler chapter:
Finish your lunch first!

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[quote]I suppose we ought to be grateful Ramsey didn't test him out or anything when he first came to the Dreadfort.[/quote]

What do you want to bet [i]that's [/i]the part that was left out of the sample? -_-;

[quote]No seriously, I love Theon.[/quote]

There are more of us than I would've expected. Someday we'll take over and turn ASoIaF into a proper fandom. Then Theon will have Mary Sues, leather pants, and a harem of "Saltwives" on the astral plane. ^_^


[quote]When he said 'Sansa was the pretty one. He remembered a time when he had thought that Lord Eddard Stark might marry him to Sansa and claim him for a son, but that had only been a child’s fancy.' it really cut me up.[/quote]

And of course, we never heard about this in any of his ACoK chapters, when he was insisting that he only saw Eddard as the guy who laid waste to his homeland. Theon tends push away whatever thoughts and feelings seem incompatible with his current environment or course of action, like how he suddenly decides that ruling the Iron Islands wouldn't be so great after all when taking the black looks like his only way of getting out of [s]the Alamo [/s]Winterfell alive. It would've been difficult for him to live with the Starks as his only family for ten years and never wish that Eddard could become his real father, especially considering that his real father is...well, Balon. That kind of bond never formed, though. Eddard can seem cold until you get to know him, and Theon found him so intimidating under the circumstances that he wasn't inclined to look deeply. He seems to have wanted obvious signs of approval, a few more smiles or that Sansa marriage offer.

On Eddard's part, I figure that if he regarded Theon as anything close to a son, we would have heard something about it in one of the chapters we spend inside the guy's head. As far as I recall, the only mention of Theon in Ned's chapters isn't even by name. It's something along the lines of, "Wow, Robert's sure put on weight since Balon's Rebellion, when we kicked Ironborn butt and I took Balon's son as a ward/hostage." I wish we knew more about his feelings, since it seems kind of uncharacteristic of him to spend so little time thinking about a kid he was supposed to be raising, especially since he'd been so close to his own foster father. Maybe they could've gotten past the personality differences if it weren't for the hostage situation and vice versa, but things were what they were. Although, I wonder if Theon would have had nicer thoughts about the Starks if we'd gotten his POV when he was still with them instead of when he was trying to fit in on the islands. He acted as though he wanted to impress Cat back in AGoT, which makes me think he hadn't quite given up even then.

As for speculation, I don't think Ramsay would've mentioned the "task" in front of those lords if it was something shady like assassinating Roose or checking for fake Aryas. I do think Jeyne's identity will become an issue. This chapter takes care to show us that Theon has a very clear mental image of Arya. The "ride to war" comment, however, suggests that Theon's purpose involves getting past Mount Cailin, although I can't imagine how. The Ironborn don't want him back, they probably don't see him as enough of a threat that they'd give up the North to see him dead, and I doubt they'll be easily intimidated. Asha has heard about the fall of Mount Cailin in her chapter, though, so it sounds like whatever the Boltons are planning will work, unless that was one of those telephone game screwy reports.

Asha believes that Dagmer Cleftjaw will give them a harder time at Torrhen's Square. I think that if Team Bolton is going to run into Stannis/Asha or some other trouble, it'll happen there. Dagmer was Theon's teacher and one of the few people who actually seemed to like him, so something might come out of that. In the long run, Theon's subplot is most likely heading toward (a) somehow deposing Euron before he gets the Islands wiped off the map, and (B) making the Ironborn somebody's useful ally, most likely Stannis if the Dany plan falls through. I just hope that they get the land they need, and that they have some role to play in the War for Dawn so that Theon stands a chance of surviving the Book Six POV massacre Martin has been hinting at.

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[quote name='Kaede' post='1452176' date='Jul 23 2008, 12.23']What do you want to bet [i]that's [/i]the part that was left out of the sample? -_-;[/quote]

I thought this business of Theon wanting to be Eddard's son is kind of a weird point to bring in this far into the series and despite your convincing attempts, Kaege I'm not fully persuaded that it works on a human level. Edited by grinachu

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[quote name='Kaede' post='1452176' date='Jul 23 2008, 05.23']There are more of us than I would've expected. Someday we'll take over and turn ASoIaF into a proper fandom. Then Theon will have Mary Sues, leather pants, and a harem of "Saltwives" on the astral plane. ^_^[/quote]
Alas that's the sort of thing that needs fanfic to fester, and ASOIAF is not that kind of fandom, sadly enough. God knows the horrors I would unleash upon the world if it was...

[quote name='grinachu' post='1453745' date='Jul 23 2008, 19.38']I thought this business of Theon wanting to be Eddard's son is kind of a weird point to bring in this far into the series and despite your convincing attempts, Kaege I'm not fully persuaded that it works on a human level.[/quote]
Yeah, how can Theon want to be Ned's son when he's already his sweet daughter? :drunk:

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[quote]I thought this business of Theon wanting to be Eddard's son is kind of a weird point to bring in this far into the series and despite your convincing attempts, Kaege I'm not fully persuaded that it works on a human level.[/quote]

Do you think it’s something Martin added to justify a change of direction from what he`d originally planned? He`s probably been doing a lot of that lately, due to the unTimeskip mess. I suspect Cersei`s prophesy was one example that didn`t turn out very well. Still, when I read that line, I thought it fit the way Theon’s mind works. There`s that time he wonders what Eddard would have thought about his “paying the iron price” and then has to remind himself that Eddard meant nothing to him. I also seem to recall a line...first AcoK chapter, maybe...where he says something about how the Starks made sure/saw to it that he never became one of them, which left me thinking he would’ve been willing to do so if he`d thought they wanted him. It`s still a couple weeks before I come back from Japan and get to see my books again, so I`m not sure. At the end of the day, though, what “works” in a story is pretty subjective. That said, I'll start rolling my eyes if Theon decides to run off and die heroically for some Stark. If Martin's not going to let us have Harry Potter-style fanfiction, we shouldn't get Harry Potter-style redemption cliches either. ^_-

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[quote name='Kaede' post='1454199' date='Jul 24 2008, 12.41']Do you think it’s something Martin added to justify a change of direction from what he`d originally planned? He`s probably been doing a lot of that lately, due to the unTimeskip mess. I suspect Cersei`s prophesy was one example that didn`t turn out very well. Still, when I read that line, I thought it fit the way Theon’s mind works. There`s that time he wonders what Eddard would have thought about his “paying the iron price” and then has to remind himself that Eddard meant nothing to him. I also seem to recall a line...first AcoK chapter, maybe...where he says something about how the Starks made sure/saw to it that he never became one of them, which left me thinking he would’ve been willing to do so if he`d thought they wanted him. It`s still a couple weeks before I come back from Japan and get to see my books again, so I`m not sure. At the end of the day, though, what “works” in a story is pretty subjective. That said, I'll start rolling my eyes if Theon decides to run off and die heroically for some Stark. If Martin's not going to let us have Harry Potter-style fanfiction, we shouldn't get Harry Potter-style redemption cliches either. ^_-[/quote]

I think it is something that he's put, not necessarily to change a plot point, but to change a character. I never spent much time reading Robert Jordan, but it always seemed all the antagonists in the book acted as they did because they were pissed off at the sheer awesomeness of Rand and couldn't match up or become his lover or what have you. If GRRM does the same with Ned Stark, I'd be very disappointed. Stannis' unwillingness to ally with the Starks has already been attributed in some part to his jealousy of Ned. Not to mention the fact that Ned suffered the most from Balon Grejoy's decision to avenge the war he and Robert waged.

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Could it be that Ramsey is taking Theon with him, because he came to some sort of an understanding with Asha ?!

About him helping her take over Iron Islands, and her helping him dispose of his father, supporting each other afterwards ?
.
.
.
Me neither... :leaving:

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Where can copies of SpectraPulse be found? Is it online? Edited by GRoll

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[quote]Could it be that Ramsey is taking Theon with him, because he came to some sort of an understanding with Asha ?![/quote]

Asha hasn't gotten anything from Ramsay besides a creepy letter by the time she runs into Stannis, and this chapter almost certainly takes place before that one, so no. I don't think the Boltons have any intention of making friends with the Ironborn when they have a lovely chance to show off their authority as the new rulers of the North by crushing said Ironborn. I'm guessing Ramsay sent that letter for pure intimidation effect rather than "Hey, I'm flaying your brother! Wanna negotiate?".

[quote]Where can copies of SpectraPulse be found? Is it online?[/quote]

Joanna Nox posted the link to the Reek chapter above. I don't think anything else from the magazine has ended up online.

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Hm... an interesting point I noticed in the sample... Theon prays to "the gods", not the Drowned God.

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That's the full chapter from Spectra Pulse, nothing has been taken out of it at all.

I remember reading the Cersei sample chapter from AFFC and thinking it wasn't long, but it takes up a decent amount of pages in the novel. The difference in perceptions of size between reading something on the screen and in a book is quite surprising.

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Yeah the chapters are the same, but I am sure that the cover of Spectra Pulse said that the chapter was an abridged version.

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[quote name='Loras' post='1460388' date='Jul 29 2008, 13.05']Yeah the chapters are the same, but I am sure that the cover of Spectra Pulse said that the chapter was an abridged version.[/quote]

* reaches over to pile of copies *

Nope. But I do recall GRRM saying the chapter was 'slightly abridged'. I remember the sample chapter of ACoK in the back of AGoT was called 'slightly abridged' and all that was missing was the last two paragraphs (the sample ended with Balon saying he was going to carve himself a kingdom as Urron did 5,000 years ago; the full chapter had Theon's "You're mad!" and Balon laughing at him just after that), so whether that's the case or the full chapter is significantly longer remains to be seen.

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The two lords sitting with Ramsay. One is a Karstark, but the other one:

[quote]One was gaunt, with flinty eyes, a long white beard, and a face as hard as a winter frost. His jerkin was a ragged bearskin, worn and greasy. Underneath he wore a ringmail byrnie, even here at table.[/quote]

It's not Jorah Mormont, is it?

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No. He's quite a bit younger, and half a world away besides.

It's almost certainly Whoresbane.

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