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[Pre-ADwD Spoilers] "New" POV 1 - Spoilers for ADwD

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[quote name='Ran' post='1461741' date='Jul 30 2008, 01.39']No. He's quite a bit younger, and half a world away besides.

It's almost certainly Whoresbane.[/quote]

I don't know. Jorah might have aged, and wouldn't Whoresbane wear his house's heraldry. Something Jorah might not be willing to do at this time. Also, didn't Barristan seem to find Danny fairly fast. In the same respect it's possible that Jorah got back to Westeros.

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[quote name='RWHamel' post='1461745' date='Jul 30 2008, 03.54']I don't know. Jorah might have aged, and wouldn't Whoresbane wear his house's heraldry. Something Jorah might not be willing to do at this time. Also, didn't Barristan seem to find Danny fairly fast. In the same respect it's possible that Jorah got back to Westeros.[/quote]


I dont think it could be Jorah - too soon. If this takes place after ASOS then it could only be at most 4-6 months after Jorah left Dany. Doesnt seem like enough time for Jorah to cross half the world and grow a long white beard.

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[quote name='Ran' post='1461741' date='Jul 30 2008, 03.39']No. He's quite a bit younger, and half a world away besides.

It's almost certainly Whoresbane.[/quote]


What house is Whoresbane from again?

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[quote name='RWHamel' post='1461745' date='Jul 30 2008, 09.54']I don't know. Jorah might have aged, and wouldn't Whoresbane wear his house's heraldry. Something Jorah might not be willing to do at this time. Also, didn't Barristan seem to find Danny fairly fast. In the same respect it's possible that Jorah got back to Westeros.[/quote]

Jorah isn't gaunt. He doesn't have flinty eyes IIRC. He isn't really old enough to be regarded as "old", nor was there time to grow a long white beard.

In contrast, Whoresbane has actually been described as gaunt with a long white beard and wearing bearskin. There was no mention of him wearing his House heraldry when he visited Winterfell too.

Besides, it's doubtful that Jorah could have travelled back in time. He was dismissed at the end of ASoS and this chapter is from the start of ADwD, which continues from ASoS and not AFfC.

[quote]What house is Whoresbane from again?[/quote]

His real name is Hother Umber. He is an uncle of the Greatjon. Edited by Markus

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[quote]Jorah might have aged[/quote]

So as to have a "long" white beard? Or to be called an "old man" by Theon/Reek? I don't think so. Given that ADwD starts more or less where AFfC starts, and more or less right after ASoS, there hasn't been any time for this change to take place.

[quote]... and wouldn't Whoresbane wear his house's heraldry.[/quote]

Crowfood and Whoresbane are never described as wearing house heraldry when they appear in ACoK. They also are noted as wearing bearskins. Here's a brief description from ACoK:

[quote]... blustery men in the winter of their days with beards as white as the bearskin cloaks they wore.[/quote]

For that matter, the fellow is also called "gaunt", whereas we know Mormont is brawny. Compare this description from the chapter:

[quote]One was gaunt, with flinty eyes, a long white beard, and a face as hard as a winter frost.[/quote]

To the bit above, and then this, also from ACoK:

[quote]She would never tell Bran why his gaunt brother Hother was called Whoresbane.[/quote]

[quote]Also, didn't Barristan seem to find Danny fairly fast.[/quote]

Months pass between Barristan's dismisal and his arrival in Qarth. No such span of time takes place between Jorah's dismissal and the start of ADwD.

As I said, it's almost certainly Whoresbane. If it's not him, then it's some northern lord we haven't met before, I expect.

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Some time has past. At least 6 months, maybe more after ACoK, at least according to Theon. Also it's after the false Arya has been sent North. Also it seems strange that the Umbers are siding with the Boltons, since the Greatjon trusted his Uncles enough that he left them joint castellans of Last Hearth. But the description does match better.

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[quote name='RWHamel' post='1461822' date='Jul 30 2008, 11.43']Some time has past. At least 6 months, maybe more after ACoK, at least according to Theon. Also it's after the false Arya has been sent North. Also it seems strange that the Umbers are siding with the Boltons, since the Greatjon trusted his Uncles enough that he left them joint castellans of Last Hearth. But the description does match better.[/quote]

6 months may have passed between the end of ACoK and the Reek chapter, but Jorah was dismissed at the end of ASoS. So take away the duration of ASoS from these 6 months and you're not left with enough time for Jorah to travel across half the world.

As for the Umbers, the Greatjon is a hostage. His uncles may not have much of a choice for the moment.

It's also quite possible that they are less than honorable and/or that they think the Boltons are a better option than the Ironborn, Stannis or a fractured North warring among itself with winter coming. Edited by Markus

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About the Umbers. Let's say the family relationship is complicated. It would seem to be political suicide with the people of the Last Hearth. How many sworn swords to House Umber died at the Red Wedding? How many died at Bolton hands? Then there is the whole Lady Hornwood thing.

It seems to me that any alliance with House Bolton would be very prickly, and not let's relax and eat together.

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Another terrific chapter. Great to see Theon again, serving a well-deserved sentence.

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I just read the chapter. Absolutely amazing. Theon's now at rock bottom psychologically, and it'll be interesting to see how much he recovers to become king of the ironmen after this.

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I can't see Theon ever becoming king of the iron islands, at least not as anything else than a puppet for someone else. Oh, and I think the service Ramsay wants of him is to state loud and clear that the girl he'll be marrying is indeed Arya Stark.

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Honestly I don't see Ramsey surviving the book. Roose is far cooler from all accounts, though perhaps less physical.

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[quote name='RWHamel' post='1461822' date='Jul 30 2008, 10.43']Also it seems strange that the Umbers are siding with the Boltons, since the Greatjon trusted his Uncles enough that he left them joint castellans of Last Hearth.[/quote]

Robb Stark gave Roose Bolton command of half his army. What was your point again ;)

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[quote name='Ibsen's Crawfish' post='1441733' date='Jul 16 2008, 01.21']Hum. That sample is way shorter than a usual chapter, yet the begining and ending do look like the real ones. I wonder what is missing ? Description ? That would make a lot of description.

Maybe a flashback/account of the immediate afterfall of Winterfell. Like Theon's arrival to the Dreadfort.[/quote]

Do you see that as a bad sign? I thought a lot of the aFfC chapters were unnecessarily long, a lot of them were 20 pages or longer. I think it's a good thing that there's some short chapters in aDwD too, at the very least it is a sign that he's still able to write about something without it taking 20 pages.
And a lot of chapters in aGoT were quite short too (the chapter of Bran's awakening is like 5 pages long).

On-topic, I thought this chapter was the worst of the 4 spoiler chapters that have been online and readable so far, but it's still pretty awesome. I sort of lost track of the whole situation in the north, though. Is he going to war with the Ironborn in Moat cailin and Deepwood? Or is he going to try and fight Stannis? Is he already aware of Stannis at this point?

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[quote name='Marwyn' post='1474291' date='Aug 10 2008, 06.44']Do you see that as a bad sign? I thought a lot of the aFfC chapters were unnecessarily long, a lot of them were 20 pages or longer. I think it's a good thing that there's some short chapters in aDwD too.

I sort of lost track of the whole situation in the north, though. Is he going to war with the Ironborn in Moat cailin and Deepwood? Or is he going to try and fight Stannis? Is he already aware of Stannis at this point?[/quote]

This chapter is indeed very bare-bones, but I agree that this is a good thing. Do we really need graphic descriptions of the various tortures Theon has been enduring for the past year? Although I had a moment of fearful curiosity when Theon thinks to himself, "If I displease Lord Ramsay he'll take another finger, or worse, he'll..."

I'm also interested in how the Stannis--Bolton--Ironborn triangle in the north will pan out. Since Ramsay is hosting two northern lords, it's likely that he is trying to revive the northern secession movement, probably with his father's covert support (although Roose was in cahoots with Tywin last time we checked, he surely wants set himself up as King in the North eventually.) The fact that he has Theon in custody gives him a bargaining chip with the Ironborn: it is in Euron's interest to make sure Theon dies or is kept permanently away from the Iron Isles. So, it's not out of the question that Euron and Ramsay will cut a deal: Ramsay will keep Theon out of the way if Euron helps Ramsay kick Stannis out of the north. Edited by Olenna

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I had a sudden idea last night.. sadly don't have the books nearby to confirm this..

but seeing how Ramsay has molded Theon into Reek... I wonder if the first reek was the original... or if he is another of Ramsay's pet projects, and what his original identity was

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Another thought on rereading this:

The surviving women from Winterfell have apparently also been brought to the Dreadfort. This may include Kyra, Theon's bedwarmer at Winterfell, last seen running off sobbing after Theon had abused her fairly badly. It is possible that she and "Reek" might cross paths again, which might be interesting, given the change in his fortunes.

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how many people in the north could be described as being gaunt and bearded, i don't think it is one of the umbers.

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This sample was very cool. I never thought I would thought I would say this about Theon the whiny little weakling but I hope his sister is able to spring him somehow.

Two questions

Why is he still alive and why are they letting him go?

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[quote name='Crazydog7' post='1500868' date='Aug 31 2008, 03.28']This sample was very cool. I never thought I would thought I would say this about Theon the whiny little weakling but I hope his sister is able to spring him somehow.

Two questions

Why is he still alive and why are they letting him go?[/quote]

He's alive because, as Roose Bolton observed to Robb Stark in ASOS, he's useful. And they aren't letting him go. They're taking him somewhere.

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