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Lannister Guard

Mini Game 51.25

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[quote name='Riona' post='1356503' date='May 15 2008, 18.07']As i've said, I can see the case on me and Varden. Perhaps Marga too, as she's slipped out of my suspect pool and infact into the person i'm bouncing ideas off of in thread. Naomh though? I seriously hope you reconsider that particular link! Before this post she was my joint top suspect, and she wants to link me and brighid as partners?

I have to thank you for this actually. By writing this post and re-reading myself as much as anyone else, I've realised that my suspcions on Brighid are weaker than my suspicions on Naomh.

I say we lynch Naomh. I'm also starting to warm to the idea of not going to night and hoping for a guard or heal tonight instead to win back the lynch the modkill stole from us.[/quote]

First to answer the question posed, no I'm not a finder. Without much to go on the past few days I have been the most suspicious of Naomh. You guys were arguing about whether to go to night or lynch, and if we lynch, until a reread, to me the main suspects are Brighid and Naomh. If one of them are a FM we have a pretty good shot. Ogan could be read as a possible partner with either of them.

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[quote name='Dreyken' post='1356742' date='May 15 2008, 19.24']No. I'm still gathering information. If we end up going to night and I'm night killed, I at least want all the information I can get on thread for tomorrow.[/quote]

I don't mean now as in this instant. I'll be around for another 4-5 hours anyway...

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Guys, I'm sorry for being quiet. Today is a big day in a few ways, so I've been preoccupied...

Anyway, I still think a Naomh lynch is a sound idea, and there was something about Riona this morning that bugged me, though I can't place my finger at it (least of all now).

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[quote name='Dreyken' post='1356705' date='May 15 2008, 13.00']What don't you like? You don't like going to night or you don't like not going to night?[/quote]
I don't like either, but I think going to night makes the most sense.

[quote name='Riona' post='1356737' date='May 15 2008, 13.22']Seriously. I think the potential healer/guard gaining us a day outweighs a potential finder right now. I also think Niomh is our best choice for a lynch, with Brighid in second place.

Beyond the two of them, there's no-one i'd be happy lynching right now.[/quote]
I don't like the risk of lynching someone now and hoping that we are right and if we happen to be wrong that we get a heal. If we are wrong and don't get a heal, we lose. Going to night is not for the finder so much as giving us a bit more information (another CI, posthumously) to make an educated decision on a lynch.

[quote name='Várden' post='1356748' date='May 15 2008, 13.27']Ogan could be read as a possible partner with either of them.[/quote]
I am not lynching anyone based on connections to Ogan. The only lynch I will support are people who could have other possible connections and are suspicious in their own right.

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[quote name='Brighid' post='1356778' date='May 15 2008, 19.45']Guys, I'm sorry for being quiet. Today is a big day in a few ways, so I've been preoccupied...

Anyway, I still think a Naomh lynch is a sound idea, and there was something about Riona this morning that bugged me, though I can't place my finger at it (least of all now).[/quote]

If by that you mean i was acting differently to usual, my head threatening to explode may account for that :-p
Until i found some painkillers i was all over the place.

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[quote name='Dreyken' post='1356736' date='May 15 2008, 13.21']Naomh, here is why your "laidback playstyle" fails, at least in terms of helping us.

You've gone after Brighid and you've somewhat made the case (albeit weakly) that Riona could be her partner.

Other than that, you've done nothing. You've said you don't want to vote Marga, Ogan or me. You have no connections to Varden. Your connections to Riona are weak in my eyes as it was in response to who could possibly be a partner to Brighid and then at the end you said, "Look, I don't necessarily think you are the *best* choice out of that group to be Brighid's partner, but I am not ready to excuse you from it yet. I will do my best to sort it out later when I have time."

You never sorted it out. So of the people alive, the only person we can be pretty sure you're not partners with is Brighid. That's fantastic to know in a lynch or lose situation.

So lets play question and answer.

What do you think of Varden?

Do you still not want to vote Marga even though on day 1, you were suspicious of him (which you dropped it seems)?

Do you still think Brighid is guilty and if so, do you still believe Ogan couldn't be her partner?[/quote]

I'm not sure that I care what you think of my playstyle. We obviously have different approaches.

I am still sorting out Riona.

I think Brighid is getting a pass today. No one was interested in voting Brighid yesterday besides me, and instead you all voted off Ogan who I think was unlikely to be guilty. So, today the conversation is supposed to revolve around who was Ogan's partner, and I am not interested in participating in that. I think Riona is very possibly guilty.

What do I think of Varden? I am doubtful of his guilt, but his contributions have been extremely inexperienced. Could be a clever experienced player pretending. Some of the arguments Varden has made are so obviously ripoffs of discussions that we have beaten into the ground that it strains belief.

I was bothered by Marga's pushing. Not so bothered now as I was on D1.

I am not at all convinced that Ogan was guilty. I am trying to evaluate Brighid exclusive of the whole Ogan connection. Obviously I have the advantage of knowing that Ogan was not partnered with me because I am not evil.

I see that Varden has also denied being the finder. So the finder is either Marga (who has not specifically denied this), or else we are screwed because no one will likely believe Brighid. I have pretty much been discredited since D1. I can't recall a single person saying they feel good about me. Instead I post some honest observations on D1 which are admittedly neutral on guilt (Because it is *$%&#(@ DAY 1 and there are always people staying to the middle of the road on D1 without *actually* being guilty). Meanwhile, half the other players are posting a bunch stir the pot/bullying posts which sucked all the life/fun out of the game.

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[quote name='Brighid' post='1356778' date='May 15 2008, 13.45']Anyway, I still think a Naomh lynch is a sound idea, and there was something about Riona this morning that bugged me, though I can't place my finger at it (least of all now).[/quote]
They have bugged me because I feel like they are pushing us in a more dangerous/risky direction. Also, they keep saying that a lynch today and a successful heal/guard would buy us another lynch. At this point, I don't even know if I'd want the guard to act because they may interrupt the healer. Back to the point about them pushing something that feels dangerous to me, I think that would be a bit too bold for an FM. If they are partners with Varden or even one of Brighid/Naomh, they are in a decent position and behavior like this seems like it would only put them in danger.

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[quote name='Marga' post='1356797' date='May 15 2008, 19.57']They have bugged me because I feel like they are pushing us in a more dangerous/risky direction. Also, they keep saying that a lynch today and a successful heal/guard would buy us another lynch. At this point, I don't even know if I'd want the guard to act because they may interrupt the healer. Back to the point about them pushing something that feels dangerous to me, I think that would be a bit too bold for an FM. If they are partners with Varden or even one of Brighid/Naomh, they are in a decent position and behavior like this seems like it would only put them in danger.[/quote]

If Dreyken's one of them they are in a good position too.

Basically, if Ogan was innocent, the FM are in a great spot. If he was guilty. they are probably in a lot of trouble.

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[quote name='Marga' post='1356797' date='May 15 2008, 13.57']They have bugged me because I feel like they are pushing us in a more dangerous/risky direction. Also, they keep saying that a lynch today and a successful heal/guard would buy us another lynch. At this point, I don't even know if I'd want the guard to act because they may interrupt the healer. Back to the point about them pushing something that feels dangerous to me, I think that would be a bit too bold for an FM. If they are partners with Varden or even one of Brighid/Naomh, they are in a decent position and behavior like this seems like it would only put them in danger.[/quote]

Again, I don't agree. If there Riona is a FM and there are 2 left, one lynch means they win. You think a FM wouldn't try to push for a lynch which would get them a win?

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[quote name='Naomh' post='1356795' date='May 15 2008, 13.56']I see that Varden has also denied being the finder. So the finder is either Marga (who has not specifically denied this), or else we are screwed because no one will likely believe Brighid. I have pretty much been discredited since D1. I can't recall a single person saying they feel good about me. Instead I post some honest observations on D1 which are admittedly neutral on guilt (Because it is *$%&#(@ DAY 1 and there are always people staying to the middle of the road on D1 without *actually* being guilty). Meanwhile, half the other players are posting a bunch stir the pot/bullying posts which sucked all the life/fun out of the game.[/quote]

I'm sorry you feel that trying to gain information saps the fun out of the game. But I can't help it nor will I even try. It's how I play. I find that the more information on the table (whether you see them as only stiring the pot or bullying), the easier it is to evaluate. When you have very little information, you might as well flip a 6 sided die and hope for the best. I feel like this is the position we're in right now and I don't like it.

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[quote name='Marga' post='1356791' date='May 15 2008, 20.53']I am not lynching anyone based on connections to Ogan. The only lynch I will support are people who could have other possible connections and are suspicious in their own right.[/quote]

I understand, I was just saying it could be read as that, not that it was the decision maker on voting.

[quote name='Naomh' post='1356795' date='May 15 2008, 20.56']I'm not sure that I care what you think of my playstyle. We obviously have different approaches.

I am still sorting out Riona.

I think Brighid is getting a pass today. No one was interested in voting Brighid yesterday besides me, and instead you all voted off Ogan who I think was unlikely to be guilty. So, today the conversation is supposed to revolve around who was Ogan's partner, and I am not interested in participating in that. I think Riona is very possibly guilty.

What do I think of Varden? I am doubtful of his guilt, but his contributions have been extremely inexperienced. Could be a clever experienced player pretending. Some of the arguments Varden has made are so obviously ripoffs of discussions that we have beaten into the ground that it strains belief.

I was bothered by Marga's pushing. Not so bothered now as I was on D1.

I am not at all convinced that Ogan was guilty. I am trying to evaluate Brighid exclusive of the whole Ogan connection. Obviously I have the advantage of knowing that Ogan was not partnered with me because I am not evil.

I see that Varden has also denied being the finder. So the finder is either Marga (who has not specifically denied this), or else we are screwed because no one will likely believe Brighid. I have pretty much been discredited since D1. I can't recall a single person saying they feel good about me. Instead I post some honest observations on D1 which are admittedly neutral on guilt (Because it is *$%&#(@ DAY 1 and there are always people staying to the middle of the road on D1 without *actually* being guilty). Meanwhile, half the other players are posting a bunch stir the pot/bullying posts which sucked all the life/fun out of the game.[/quote]

I haven't read much on Riona so I'll note her in my ongoing reread, but nothing stuck out to me about her. As for my contributions, by the time I got here most times people already had a bunch of theories going without me having anything to say that wouldn't seem like it had already been mentioned. From what I have reread so far there isn't much changing my mind about you/Brighid, but I am not too far yet.

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As of right now Riona, Varden, Dreyken, and Brighid have all expressed their preference today would be lynching Naomh. My interpretation is that either Naomh is partnered with Ogan, I still ought to look back at that (if there is anything worth seeing), or she is innocent (I'm not evil). I won't support a Naomh lynch today or tomorrow.

Now looking at some votes:

It is day 1.

5 votes for Brighid ([u]Marga[/u], [u]Riona[/u], Naomh, [s]Cargan[/s], [u][s]Teafa[/s][/u])
3 votes for Cargan ([s]Fionn[/s], Varden, [i]Ogan[/i])
2 votes for Naomh (Dreyken, [i]Brighid[/i])

It is day 2.

5 votes for Ogan ([u]Marga[/u], [u]Riona[/u], Varden,[u][s]Teafa[/s][/u], Dreyken)
1 vote for Brighid (Naomh)

2 players have not voted: [i]Brighid[/i], [i]Ogan[/i]

So the crossed out are innocent (Teafa and Cargan) or likely innocent (Rionn). Teafa was in both mobs as was myself (1st vote on both), and Riona (second vote on both). Varden avoided voting Brighid (voted for an innocent) and day 2 he voted for Ogan in the middle of the mob. Brighid neglected to vote yesterday, which I think is important to note as well (so did Ogan :/).

This is making me feel like a Brighid-Varden partnership is quite possible (another thing to look back on) and both seem like they would be likely evils.

Oh and the italics (Brighid and Ogan) are the only ones that avoided both mobs. Although one was on Ogan, so really just Brighid.

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[quote name='Naomh' post='1356795' date='May 15 2008, 13.56']I see that Varden has also denied being the finder. So the finder is either Marga (who has not specifically denied this), or else we are screwed because no one will likely believe Brighid. I have pretty much been discredited since D1. I can't recall a single person saying they feel good about me. Instead I post some honest observations on D1 which are admittedly neutral on guilt (Because it is *$%&#(@ DAY 1 and there are always people staying to the middle of the road on D1 without *actually* being guilty). Meanwhile, half the other players are posting a bunch stir the pot/bullying posts which sucked all the life/fun out of the game.[/quote]
I am not the finder...so this means we didn't have one, Cargan was one :cry:, Ogan was one :cry:, Teafa was one :cry:, or Rionn was it :tantrum:. That sucks.

[quote name='Dreyken' post='1356822' date='May 15 2008, 14.07']Again, I don't agree. If there Riona is a FM and there are 2 left, one lynch means they win. You think a FM wouldn't try to push for a lynch which would get them a win?[/quote]
I see your point, but it seems risky to me to push something that would likely be unpopular. That's all.

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[quote name='Marga' post='1356845' date='May 15 2008, 14.18']I am not the finder...so this means we didn't have one, Cargan was one :cry:, Ogan was one :cry:, Teafa was one :cry:, or Rionn was it :tantrum:. That sucks.[/quote]

Ogan wasn't the finder. He was online when he had 4 votes and he was resigned to being lynched. If he was the finder, he would have claimed then.

[quote name='Marga']I see your point, but it seems risky to me to push something that would likely be unpopular. That's all.[/quote]

It's not really all that unpopular. He's backing it up with some kind of reasoning and if we do go to night, chances are you or me is dead (if you're innocent) and we're back to where we started.

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[quote name='Marga' post='1356834' date='May 15 2008, 21.14']Brighid neglected to vote yesterday, which I think is important to note as well (so did Ogan :/).[/quote]
I went to bed when there was still 5 or so hours left. I even turned my alarm on to get on before the day ended. I was prepared to vote, but thought it would be best to wait, so we (well, you guys, I was sleeping) could get as much out of the day as possible. So, I was prepared to vote, but never had to.

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[quote name='Dreyken' post='1356854' date='May 15 2008, 14.22']It's not really all that unpopular. He's backing it up with some kind of reasoning and if we do go to night, chances are you or me is dead (if you're innocent) and we're back to where we started.[/quote]
I guess...that was what I was saying earlier that going to night would likely result in that. Still, we get as much info as we can out tonight and we can trust what one of us said because they will be CI.

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[quote name='Marga' post='1356862' date='May 15 2008, 14.25']I guess...that was what I was saying earlier that going to night would likely result in that. Still, we get as much info as we can out tonight and we can trust what one of us said because they will be CI.[/quote]

I agree.

My point was simply that pushing for a lynch today isn't all that bold.

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[quote name='Marga' post='1356834' date='May 15 2008, 21.14']As of right now Riona, Varden, Dreyken, and Brighid have all expressed their preference today would be lynching Naomh. My interpretation is that either Naomh is partnered with Ogan, I still ought to look back at that (if there is anything worth seeing), or she is innocent (I'm not evil). I won't support a Naomh lynch today or tomorrow.

Now looking at some votes:

It is day 1.

5 votes for Brighid ([u]Marga[/u], [u]Riona[/u], Naomh, [s]Cargan[/s], [u][s]Teafa[/s][/u])
3 votes for Cargan ([s]Fionn[/s], Varden, [i]Ogan[/i])
2 votes for Naomh (Dreyken, [i]Brighid[/i])

It is day 2.

5 votes for Ogan ([u]Marga[/u], [u]Riona[/u], Varden,[u][s]Teafa[/s][/u], Dreyken)
1 vote for Brighid (Naomh)

2 players have not voted: [i]Brighid[/i], [i]Ogan[/i]

So the crossed out are innocent (Teafa and Cargan) or likely innocent (Rionn). Teafa was in both mobs as was myself (1st vote on both), and Riona (second vote on both). Varden avoided voting Brighid (voted for an innocent) and day 2 he voted for Ogan in the middle of the mob. Brighid neglected to vote yesterday, which I think is important to note as well (so did Ogan :/).

This is making me feel like a Brighid-Varden partnership is quite possible (another thing to look back on) and both seem like they would be likely evils.

Oh and the italics (Brighid and Ogan) are the only ones that avoided both mobs. Although one was on Ogan, so really just Brighid.[/quote]

It ended up not counting, but remember I did have an over the time limit vote on Brighid a little after Ogans over the time limit vote, I had been on the reply screen without seeing the most recent votes. My Cargan vote was mainly because of the vibes he was claiming and with little other evidence to go off of, and I was trying to get someone like Ogan and Teafa to join me in a vote to get any lynch going anyways.

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[quote name='Várden' post='1356866' date='May 15 2008, 14.26'][u]It ended up not counting[/u], but remember I did have an over the time limit vote on Brighid a little after Ogans over the time limit vote, I had been on the reply screen without seeing the most recent votes. My Cargan vote was mainly because of the vibes he was claiming and with little other evidence to go off of, and I was trying to get someone like Ogan and Teafa to join me in a vote to get any lynch going anyways.[/quote]
Just stop there. I don't care about the rest. You could have switched much sooner and should have because it was pretty obvious as I was rereading that nobody cared about voting for Cargan. There is no reason for me to believe you truly intended on getting in a vote for Brighid in on time.

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[quote name='Dreyken' post='1356825' date='May 15 2008, 14.09']I'm sorry you feel that trying to gain information saps the fun out of the game. But I can't help it nor will I even try. It's how I play. I find that the more information on the table (whether you see them as only stiring the pot or bullying), the easier it is to evaluate. When you have very little information, you might as well flip a 6 sided die and hope for the best. I feel like this is the position we're in right now and I don't like it.[/quote]

Do you feel like you got a lot of good information? From my POV all I see is a bunch of confusion and people tunneld in on innocent players. I don't mind when a "stir-the-pot" player does a good job testing and prodding players, and maybe you are normally good at this, but in *this* game, I don't think it worked. Granted, there are a lot of factors contributing to this debacle including the modkill, people not thinking for themselves, generally low level of posting, etc.

I think Riona is probably evil and she sees an opportunity to win this game right now, which is why she is pushing my lynch. Evil players can get that adrenaline rush when they see themselves one lynch away from winning. It sometimes overpowers their sense. Plus, they are evil.

Marga! :grouphug:

Unless you are evil.

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