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Mysterious Character: "the Liddle"


Old Pate

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I think he is a character that will have a role later. Maybe he is "the" Liddle, maybe only a lesser clansman, but I think the encounter he had with Bran was thought by GRRM not only to "fill the journey".

I think he will not become an important character by himself, but that he is spreading in all the North the voice that the Wolves aren't dead.

Imho, we will see how this encounter has been important when a conspicuous number of clansmen will join Howland Reed and Rickon in the "Braveheart style" rebellion of the North.
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He may appear as soon as in the next book. The appendix to the AFFC could be a clue. North or Stark section of it contains most of the new information besides the fact that women from Winterfell are currently captured at Dreadfort there are several persons from the White Harbor and for a first times names of mountain clan chiefs.
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[quote name='Mezeh' post='1428958' date='Jul 6 2008, 00.35']He may appear as soon as in the next book. The appendix to the AFFC could be a clue. North or Stark section of it contains most of the new information besides the fact that women from Winterfell are currently captured at Dreadfort there are several persons from the White Harbor and for a first times names of mountain clan chiefs.[/quote]

That's a really good point, Mezeh.
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[quote name='Old Pate' post='1393456' date='Jun 11 2008, 01.32']the guy with black hands who rides the stag (I had totally forgotten about him until rereading recently). And then somewhere out there is Benjen Stark . . .[/quote]
These are one and the same.
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Guest Other-in-law
[quote name='Edward the Great' post='1429712' date='Jul 6 2008, 22.28']These are one and the same.[/quote]
That is not a statement of fact.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Another crackpot:

It's Jaqen H'ghar.

Reasoning:[list]
[*]Mysterious guy.
[*]Knows a shitload from the south.
[*]Quote: "...a man hears..."
[*]Jaqen H'ghar was last seen down at Harrenhal.
[/list]
Arguments against:[list]
[*]Long way to harrenhal...ofcourse he could have gone by boat.
[*]And I seem to recall we see him (or another faceless man) in kings landing in later chapters.
[/list]
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  • 3 years later...

Bumpin' this thread, good folks, since I've been wondering about this Liddle myself lately.

As of now we don't know if he was "The" Liddle (and quite possibly not).

In response to some of the theories posted prior on this thread, after aDwD we know that

Spoiler
He's not the 3-eyed crow.

and

It's very unlikely that he's the grown up baby Aegon

AND

that at least one person

Spoiler
besides Wex and the Manderlys

knows that Bran is alive.

Did any Liddles show up amongst the northmen marching with Stannis? I don't recall there being any. But it seems that the fruits of this encounter have got to show themselves soon.

Perhaps it would be possible to move this to the DwD forum if appropriate.

ETA: as stated above, it's of course possible that this Liddle could be Jaqen H'ghar. But then, Jaqen H'ghar could be anybody. :)

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Maybe the reasons the Starks rule the North is because the Children of the Forest made some kind of pact with them for as long as they rule the North it will be safe. I dunno just another idea.

No. It took the Starks thousands of years to rule the whole north. The Boltons bent the knee sometime AFTER the Andal invasion.

It seems to me that the whole of the north was many small kingdoms, "winter" being one of them and the Starks slowly consolidated over thousands of years.

We know the Starks gave Bear Island to the Mormounts after wining it in a wrestling match. They gave white harbor to the Manderlys (who are first men from the reach) when they were beset by (Andal) enemies.

The kingdom of Winter was the probably the dominant house of the North for 8000 years but probably has ruled the whole north for less than 2000.

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No thoughts at all on the Liddle? Anyone?

I'll bite.

Because of the word of God, we know that mystery pine-cone guy is a Liddle, possibly THE Liddel.

If that is the case, when Stannis comes a calling, and the Wulls, Flints, and Liddles etc join him they are doing so under false pretenses. Because they know there are living male Starks.

I guess they neglected to mention that to Stannis. hmmmmmmmm.....

Also, the little Mormount sister tells Stannis to shove it, and the big Mormount sister joins his host? Hmmmmm....

I think Stannis is getting the Northern double cross, and not from the Karstarks

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No. It took the Starks thousands of years to rule the whole north. The Boltons bent the knee sometime AFTER the Andal invasion.

It seems to me that the whole of the north was many small kingdoms, "winter" being one of them and the Starks slowly consolidated over thousands of years.

We know the Starks gave Bear Island to the Mormounts after wining it in a wrestling match. They gave white harbor to the Manderlys (who are first men from the reach) when they were beset by (Andal) enemies.

The kingdom of Winter was the probably the dominant house of the North for 8000 years but probably has ruled the whole north for less than 2000.

Manderly is an Andal house, that's why they follow the Seven.

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Manderly is an Andal house, that's why they follow the Seven.

you sure? or are they aculturated first men? Nevermind, checked the wiki, they Andals

Manderly of the Reach - rootword is Mander... the name of the river in the reach... that would make them a very old house.

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I'll bite.

Because of the word of God, we know that mystery pine-cone guy is a Liddle, possibly THE Liddel.

If that is the case, when Stannis comes a calling, and the Wulls, Flints, and Liddles etc join him they are doing so under false pretenses. Because they know there are living male Starks.

I guess they neglected to mention that to Stannis. hmmmmmmmm.....

Also, the little Mormount sister tells Stannis to shove it, and the big Mormount sister joins his host? Hmmmmm....

I think Stannis is getting the Northern double cross, and not from the Karstarks

Thanks for the reply. I was really curious about this after rereading this Bran chapter because I had completely overlooked in when reading DwD, especially the Stannis material.

In DwD, are there Liddles fighting with the Wulls and Flints? If so, you're definitely right that they are serving under false pretenses.

Seems to me that it's just a matter of time before Bran's survival emerges, although it might already be common (but not oft spoken of) knowledge among the Northmen in Stannis' army.

Regardless, for some reason the Liddle gives me more hope that there'll be a Stark in Winterfell by series' end, and also, MAYBE, that

Bran will not end up permanently connected to the weirwood internet north of the Wall but will see his family once more.

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you sure? or are they aculturated first men? Nevermind, checked the wiki, they Andals

Manderly of the Reach - rootword is Mander... the name of the river in the reach... that would make them a very old house.

I think they are relatively old. I mean, The Andals invaded Westeros 6000 years ago. That's a pretty long time.

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Thanks for the reply. I was really curious about this after rereading this Bran chapter because I had completely overlooked in when reading DwD, especially the Stannis material.

In DwD, are there Liddles fighting with the Wulls and Flints? If so, you're definitely right that they are serving under false pretenses.

Seems to me that it's just a matter of time before Bran's survival emerges, although it might already be common (but not oft spoken of) knowledge among the Northmen in Stannis' army.

Well... Stannis went to them all, and came down with a sizeable force, and Jon told Stannis that the Liddles were important... we just all focused on Stannis's jaw drop of "Big Bucket?"

As in "WTF kind of barbarian bullshit did I get myself into this time... fuckin Big Bucket!" Can almost here his internal dialogue of cultural disgust over the teeth grinds there...

Anyhow... i think all the clans came down, and at a minimum the Liddles know. Seems like the 2nd battle of winterfell is going to be a triple or even quadruple cross. my my... who is gonna be standing at the end of that?

GRRM said that the ending will be bittersweet

Regardless, for some reason the Liddle gives me more hope that there'll be a Stark in Winterfell by series' end, and also, MAYBE, that

This would be the sweet part.

Bran will not end up permanently connected to the weirwood internet north of the Wall but will see his family once more.

the lack of this would be the bitter

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you sure? or are they aculturated first men? Nevermind, checked the wiki, they Andals

Manderly of the Reach - rootword is Mander... the name of the river in the reach... that would make them a very old house.

Not neccessarily. It may be that in the Reach they had another name--when they came North, they took on the name of 'Manderly' in their new surroundings, one that reminded them (and the Northerners) of their old stomping grounds. Whether the name change was voluntary or asked of them by their new Stark friends is immaterial.

It's also perhaps doubtful that being a river people that their sigil was a Merman when they were in the South.

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Anyhow... i think all the clans came down, and at a minimum the Liddles know. Seems like the 2nd battle of winterfell is going to be a triple or even quadruple cross. my my... who is gonna be standing at the end of that?

This would indeed be epic: Stannis, the northmen/Manderlys, the Watch (?), the Boltons.

Glad to know about Jon's advice to Stannis re: Liddles. Can't wait to see more of 'em.

Hmmm....

what if Bran ended up connected to the weirwood internets via the heart tree at Winterfell? then his fam could go and visit him.

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@LS

I did a re-read last night and the guy under the overhang was definately a Liddle. Not just the pine-cone broach but he left a oatcakes and sausage when he snuck off in the morning, wrapped in a green and white cloth, which are Liddle colors.

I also did a ADwD check and Liddles are definately in Stannis's host. Led by a Morgan Liddle.

Hope this helps

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@LS

I did a re-read last night and the guy under the overhang was definately a Liddle. Not just the pine-cone broach but he left a oatcakes and sausage when he snuck off in the morning, wrapped in a green and white cloth, which are Liddle colors.

I also did a ADwD check and Liddles are definately in Stannis's host. Led by a Morgan Liddle.

Hope this helps

YES it definitely does, thanks.

Now I'm waiting with baited breath for the next book. No, wait, that's a bad idea. :(

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