Mafia Mini a la surprise

[Harlot]

Of the top suspects, I began with a re-read on Kat first.

[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1376007' date='May 29 2008, 19.43']AE, I have changed my mind! I shall not be Pless, but Piper!


Wir werden Euch den Arsch versohlen, bad guys! Watch out!


First step: We find the killers and vote for them.


I am thinking that [b]Mexal[/b] is evil? Why? Secret signs![/quote]

Joke vote on Mexal.

[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1376359' date='May 30 2008, 02.31']Harlot does not seem especially evil to me based on Whiskeyjack's reasoning. WJ's post feels like an overreaction. If he is evil, I am going to spank his ass!! :tantrum:


Vote remains on Mexal until WJ explains why he's following Mexal's votes.


Deutsche Fußballnationalmannschaft!![/quote]

Here she lets the joke vote remain, makes it serious but because WJ is following Mex? If WJ is doing the following why the vote on Mexal? She can leave a nice distancing vote on her partner while continuing to cast a suspicious eye at WJ.


[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1377200' date='May 30 2008, 13.16']Actually.... :uhoh:

I actually [i]was[/i] serious about my reasoning. Apparently I was tired, because it really makes no sense to me now.

[b]Ser Spider[/b]; I don't like the way he keeps posting and keeps pointing out that he has the same ideas as Mexal.


Edit: But it's tough because I don't like how Mexal's defending me, [i]or[/i] how WJ went into early attack-mode against Harlot on something I didn't find particularly suspicious. I actually agree with Spider and Mexal about how evil WJ plays, no matter how many times WJ wants to deny it. [i]However[/i], I'm not sure I want to characterize him as evil just yet.[/quote]

This post is I feel the most damaging to Kat. She switches to Spidey for following Mexal (sound familiar?) but the edit just leaves herself open to vote for whomever she cooses. She keeps the mild defense of Mexal, continues the suspions of WJ but wants to fall short of calling him evil. It's middle of the road behavior.

Another importnant point about this post is that it is before any momentum began against Mexal. She's never really put on the spot about her opinions of Mex or gave any indications that she was interested in voting for him. Further, she seems to be "voting around him."

Other than some nonsense posting about drowning and lynching, Kat is not around for the rest of the day. She wasn't on the lynchmob and leaves her vote on Spidey.

[Harlot]

That's all the time I have this morning. I will try to do more later this afternoon depending on the weather.

Thoughts about suspects:

1. West - This case speaks for itself. Most of the evidence against him has already been discussed. I didn't see anything further to add on a re-read.

2. VSM - Her last minute cross-post with West being "willing to vote Mexal"? I don't know. She could have been lurking waiting for the last vote and then quickly cross-posted. She was off the mob and never suspected Mexal. The "I never can read Mex" post after the lynch scene didn't do anything to convince me of her innocence.

3. Hopefully this afternoon I will re-read trying to not think of WJ's suspects (Tho it's hard to make the argument that WJ is fallible after he stone-cold nailed Mex on D1). I haven't played (any?) games with Gert so I'd like to look at her if for no other reason than I really don't have a sense of her.

[Harlot]

[quote name='Ser Spidutch' post='1378059' date='May 31 2008, 04.23']2. Harlot-he's not playing his usual game, and this concerns me.[/quote]


This is fair. What's most unusual is that normally I neglect my work to play mafia. I just couldn't do it yesterday. I was literally in court from 8:30 to 12:00 and 1:00 - 3:30 and then I had to finish a motion for a hearing on Monday. I was rushed to get some posts in at the end of the day ( I leave work at 4:30) before picking my son up from daycare and then we had family time. I should have more time this weekend.

Also, I am consciously trying to play a different style. Posting less, less adversarial and more analytical.

I'm off for the next several hours myself.

[VerySmallMonster]

Meant to mention this last night:
[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1378035' date='May 31 2008, 01.45']Look, we only have one bad guy left. Can't we just run through the lynch list and do me...uh...after West and Harlot?[/quote]
Well, we could if we only had three suspects... but why have you crossed me, Gert, and Spider off the list of suspects? eta: I'm especially confused that you've left me off the list, because I can't see why I wouldn't be under consideration for Mexal's partner, and because you're always paranoid about me. :P

[Gertrude]

And here I was all worried about missing a big chunk of game time - should have known, being the weekend and all :P

Here's my problem - 3 of the top suspects (Harlot, West, Kat) have done nothing to alleviate any suspicion from themselves and have, in fact - increased their suspicious behaviors in my eyes.

West - we get it, you think you are doomed. The martyr bit didn't help your case and makes you look like you're trying to hard.

Harlot - Excessive speculation on why WJ was killed (West did this too) when to me it was the obvious kill. It is WJ - who inspires fear and dread in his enemies. Of course the FM want him dead. Even if he hadn't nailed Mex and wasn't particularly onto the other FM, they'd still want him dead.

Kat - that post you made distancing yourself from Mex - wtf? It was excessive in the extreme and seems most unKat like to me. In fact it has propelled you into my top suspect position.

tier1
Kat, West, Harlot

tier 2
VSM, Spider

tier 3
AE (not only did I get a good feeling about her, so did WJ)


Question for West - you said you were going to look into Harlot and me. Why me?

[Gertrude]

And I have no problem with AE talking about good roles, unlike Spider. I totally agree with her assessment.

[West]

I am in the middle of my Harlot re-read now.

Gert, I decided to look at you becuase of your position on the train (4th out of 5.)

[VerySmallMonster]

Question for Harlot: why did you vote for Mexal yesterday? It didn't sound like you had any particular suspicions of him at the time, did you have any reasons for choosing him over Ser Spider, or myself?

[VerySmallMonster]

Anyway, now that everyone has checked in and looks like we are not going to get a finder claim, I'm going to go ahead and vote [b]Kat[/b] for the reasons I've already given. Plus the mere fact that I suspect her is making me even more suspicious of her. I never suspect Kat. :P

[West]

So here is my reread of Harlot.

First real post is:
103 - Says innocent WJ and evil WJ look the same

139 - Blows off WJ's day one case against him. Claims neither WJ or Mex look evil because of the argument. Agreed with WJ that Kat was fishy. Willing to vote West for non-participation.

141 - Calls Spidey a yippy dog and evalutates players:
[quote]Kat - may be fake symping me. An odd ploy since I am looking more and more like the D1 lynch (based on just 3 posts no less. )

West - Why am I getting the feeling he'll show up just before the end of day to cast the final vote on me?

Gertrude - Don't think I've played with her before. Don't really have a read on her, late to the game but post was of substance (wrong on voting for me, but good effort)\

VSM - similar to Gertrude. VSM is usually a cypher to me anyway.

Spidey - See above.[/quote] I don't think he says anything of substance, however.

142 - is leaving and wont be back til end of day. Feels he must choose between Mex and WJ -- choses Mex making the vote count:
[indent]2 votes for Harlot (Gertrude, VerySmallMonster)
2 votes for Whiskeyjack (Mexal, Ser Spider)
2 vote for Mexal (Whiskeyjack, Harlot)
1 vote for Ser Spider (Kat)
1 vote for VerySmallMonster (AutumnEvenings)

1 players has not voted: West.[/indent]If he was Mex's partner, this would be an odd place to put his vote. Evening up the count 2, 2, and 2. He claims he doesn't vote WJ because WJ isn't lynchable so he votes Mex in case the fight was staged.

After Lynch and Night Kill
205 - Says WJ was killed because he was a threat or it would PI a FM. Lists his Suspects in this order Kat, West, VSM.

210 - Speculates on why the FM chose WJ and the possibility of him being roled.

221 - Rereads Kat

222 - Gives thoughts on West and VSM

223 - Explains his different play style in this game.

While I am not convinced of Harlot's innocence here, I am certainly not convinced of his guilt either. The biggest point in his favor is placing a vote on Mex instead of WJ (or Spider or VSM). I don't think that is something a FM would have done to his partner... it is a little early to be laying a distancing vote on a partner when he could have pushed a mob against someone else.

[Kat]

VSM- I do suspect you. I'd just prefer to lynch Harlot and West (my top suspects) before you and Spider (my Tier 2 suspects). I realize that in reality, we're not going to be able to lynch all 4 of my suspects, but...well...there's always the possibility that a finder will declare one of you innocent.

I'll start with [b]West[/b], my top suspect.

Spider- I disagree that role speculation makes AE suspicious. There's very good reason to speculate about good roles today. We know the role distribution and have already lynched a bad guy. If the good role has used their power, they might as well come out and eliminate a suspect.

[Gertrude]

Right now I am feeling that my preferred lynch order is Kat, Harlot, West.

I feel good about AE and the only thing I really disagree with her on is her suspicion of VSM. I haven't really seen what she is seeing and I can't help but think that if VSM was the other FM, AE would be dead today instead of WJ. Both are formidable opponents but with AE gone, no one would be looking in VSM's direction. Not killing WJ is easily explained away as healer or BP threat.

Kat has been very ... unKat like this game? Her vote on Mex was actually pressure on WJ, so would look good on further re-read. She then switched to Spider who - I just don't find very suspicious at all. Apparently I'm missing something here too as he pops up on a few lists. Her vote there is not uber-damning, it's more that it is NOT a vote on Mex. A safe place to leave it while she is gone.

And Kat broke a cardinal rule - the longer the post, the guiltier you are. That post explaining why she and Mex aren't linked was overkill and honestly - I skimmed it. I remember the argument.

Harlot and West I haven't played with/observed much so it's harder to evaluate. Harlot would be my top suspect if he hadn't voted Mex when he did. I'm still not discounting it, but it lowers him a bit. Mex did cause a mighty distraction and Harlot has been suspicious. One of my main sticking points on him is his dissection of the WJ NK - I mean, it was WJ. Does there need to be an elaborate reason?

West is acting, um, irrationally? Maybe - I don't know his playstyle. Almost all of his view points are hard for me to understand. His reactions to Mex's reveal and the NK are ... off.

Anyway, for now it's [b]Kat[/b]

[Kat]

More defense:


VSM- Because Mexal was basically defending my post against WJ without me being there? What's the point of that? Fighting with WJ is a ticket to your own funeral. Mexal is a better player than me. If you look at everything before my "suspicious post", is there anything that connects me with Mexal? Not really. He doesn't look particularly suspicious at that point to me, anyway and he avoids big arguments. Why would he stick his neck out to defend me when it would mean a certain death? Why not just say, "ok, WJ's going after Kat, let her go down easily"? I haven't been evil in quite a few games, I think the mods are being merciful to me since I hate being evil so much, but when I'm evil, I tend to like to die early and let my partners do the work later on, especially if they're better players than me. I definitely would have told that to Mexal.


[quote name='Gertrude' post='1378307' date='May 31 2008, 10.04']Kat - that post you made distancing yourself from Mex - wtf? It was excessive in the extreme and seems most unKat like to me. In fact it has propelled you into my top suspect position.[/quote]

Eh, excessive? How? It's a defense. The fight happened a few pages ago. I don't have a role claim to fall back on here, so I might as well defend myself. :dunno:




I have a secret. Do you guys really want to know why I voted for Mexal on day 1, before switching to Spider? I didn't want to role speculate on D1 because that's...well...bad, but Mexal was the first person to post in the game. Piper said he only sent out PMs to people if they were roled. I didn't even realize the game had started for several hours, but Mexal posted within the first few minutes. Either he was hanging around checking the thread to see if it had started, or he had received a role PM that would have let him know the game had begun. I thought the first was unlikely.

That's the main reason why I haven't suspected Gertrude at all. She doesn't post on the board much and I figured it would have taken a PM to alert her the game had started. She came in so late, I thought she had to be a RI who received no PM until the mods realized maybe she didn't know the game had started, and finally sent her one.

[Kat]

Gert- can you please remove your vote for now. I'd really like to give everyone a chance to claim finder in case someone chose that role.

This is highly unfortunate. I'm about to be lynched as an innocent for the first time in over a year, and I can't even blame WJ for it this time. :|

[West]

Gert reread.

First real post:
108 - Takes WJ's side in the fight. Feels Mex's argument was "stretchy." Votes Harlot for fear that the fight was a distraction and that Harlot complained about lack of activity but didn't do anything to fix it.

3 posts of fluff

124 - Questions WJ about Spidey and Mex.

127 - Questions if Harlot is suspicious or an easy target. Feels her own vote against him may be misplaced. Questions WJ about why he is suspicious of Harlot, but doesn't remove her vote.

151 - Doesn't find Spidey's participation in the fight suspicious. Questions Harlot's vote on Mex.

154 - Discusses why Harlot's vote for Mex doesn't make sense (pre-lynch of FM Mex.)

161 - Ranks current votees: Harlot, Mexal, WJ, Spider

172 - Explains why WJ's missing of logic makes her nervous.

176 - Slaps Mex's hand when he gets emotional and loses it for a second.

178 - Tells WJ why she wanted his name included in the "votee" list. Says lynching Mex would be easier than WJ.

180 - Votes Mex -- #4 out of 5. This vote is what pushed me to do a reread of her.

Everything else is on this page.

First, I think that everytime I have played with Ger (or seen her play) she has been evil. But this time I am not getting that *ahem* vibe. If she is evil, then she is playing it well.

Out of my two rereads, I'd rank them in this order

Harlot
Gert

Kat is next as she has 2 votes.

[Kat]

Gah. I really need more time here--I have to leave for work shortly, and won't be able to post for another 6 hours or so. I didn't realize Gert and VSM would vote for me for gut reasons so early in the day, but please, please just give me some time to make cases. I'll be around after work when there are 4+ hours left in the day. Can you please just give me a chance here?

[Kat]

Eh, never mind. I thought Harlot had a vote on me. I guess the situation is not as dire as I previously thought, although I'd still appreciate some time to make up for my poor gameplay this time around. Bad timing is annoying.

[Gertrude]

ok Kat, [b]remove vote[/b]

I am thinking about what you have said about meta, because it makes sense.

And everyone has posted, and no one has claimed finder.

[VerySmallMonster]

[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1378369' date='May 31 2008, 14.23']VSM- Because Mexal was basically defending my post against WJ without me being there? What's the point of that? Fighting with WJ is a ticket to your own funeral. Mexal is a better player than me. If you look at everything before my "suspicious post", is there anything that connects me with Mexal? Not really. He doesn't look particularly suspicious at that point to me, anyway and he avoids big arguments. Why would he stick his neck out to defend me when it would mean a certain death? Why not just say, "ok, WJ's going after Kat, let her go down easily"? I haven't been evil in quite a few games, I think the mods are being merciful to me since I hate being evil so much, but when I'm evil, I tend to like to die early and let my partners do the work later on, especially if they're better players than me. I definitely would have told that to Mexal.[/quote]
He was? Eh, ok, I guess I can see that, but it hadn't occurred to me before. :P I sort of just figured he was using it to go after WJ because 'what evil person would do that on day 1?' And no, there wasn't anything connecting you to Mexal before that post (assuming you are referring to the one that started the Mexal/WJ argument), but then there were maybe 3 or 4 posts before that that weren't totally RP so... But really, I don't remember anyone else saying they thought Mexal was defending you there, so I'm still very suspicious that you were worried enough about it to make such a long post defending against it.

[Harlot]

[quote name='VerySmallMonster' post='1378332' date='May 31 2008, 12.40']Question for Harlot: why did you vote for Mexal yesterday? It didn't sound like you had any particular suspicions of him at the time, did you have any reasons for choosing him over Ser Spider, or myself?[/quote]

In the limited time I had yesterday I looked at available candidates and thought he was the most likely to actually get lynched while I was off. I didn't find anything about WJ to be suspicious enough to want to lynch him on D1 and I didn't believe that there would be any realistic chance of that happening anyway. WJ had changed votes to Mex and I made the calculated guess that the rest of the mob would eventually follow him if we were short on time and only had a few players on. And honestly, I am trying to remove some ego issues I have with mafia and how I play vis-a-vis WJ in particular and some other strong players. I'm always suspicious of him and resistant to him. I decided to just trust him this time and worry about D2 later.