Mafia Mini a la surprise

[VerySmallMonster]

[quote name='Harlot' post='1378403' date='May 31 2008, 14.48']In the limited time I had yesterday I looked at available candidates and thought he was the most likely to actually get lynched while I was off. I didn't find anything about WJ to be suspicious enough to want to lynch him on D1 and I didn't believe that there would be any realistic chance of that happening anyway. WJ had changed votes to Mex and I made the calculated guess that the rest of the mob would eventually follow him if we were short on time and only had a few players on. And honestly, I am trying to remove some ego issues I have with mafia and how I play vis-a-vis WJ in particular and some other strong players. I'm always suspicious of him and resistant to him. I decided to just trust him this time and worry about D2 later.[/quote]
Ok. I am actually feeling better about you today, I would put you third on my suspect list behind Kat and West.

[Piper of Chaos]

It is day 2.

7 players remain: AutumnEvenings, Gertrude, Harlot, Kat, Ser Spider, VerySmallMonster, West.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

1 vote for Kat (VerySmallMonster)
1 vote for West (Kat)

5 players have not voted: AutumnEvenings, Gertrude, Harlot, Ser Spider, West.

[West]

[quote name='Gertrude' post='1378364' date='May 31 2008, 12.14']*snip*

West is acting, um, irrationally? Maybe - I don't know his playstyle. Almost all of his view points are hard for me to understand. His reactions to Mex's reveal and the NK are ... off.[/quote]
This is the way I come off in most every game. Highly lynchable, bone-headed posts, and hard to follow pseudo-logic. Which, I promise, always makes sense to me.

I have to defend myself from these same accuastions in most every game I play. Usually it's Autumn leading the charge... hmmm maybe she's the remainnig baddie :unsure:

[West]

Reread of Kat.

28 - Joke vote for Autumn - but it follows a joke vote for Autumn by FM Mex. Would partners come out of the gate and do that together?

37 - Removes joke vote. WJ had put the 3rd joke vote on Autumn... I guess Kat didn't want an inadvertant lynch... or to be linked to an indavertant lynch.

41 - Joke vote for Mexal -- that turned out to be a serious Joke vote (as explained in 233. Good call Kat.)

55 - Feels WJ overreacted to Harlot's initial post. This is the infamous post that may connect her to Mex.

106 - Claims the serious Joke vote for Mexal wasn't a Joke vote at all but now doesn't make sense to her. Votes Spidey for parroting Mex.

Next real vote post Lynch and Night Kill:
196 - Says Harlot is innocent and likes West as Mex's partner.

215 - Kat defending herself against WJ. Defends herself against accusations of being Mex's partner. Takes back Harlot's innocence, but still likes me better.

231 - Votes me and gives her voting order: West, Harlot, VSM, and Spidey. Isn't bothered by role speculation

Rest on this page (and 231 as well.)
It seems that Kat is getting votes because... because in post 215 she claims she isn't Mex's partner. And she does this becuase he called the middle sentence of post 55 a joke when she meant it as serious.

Overall I guess don't find that very damning... some, but not much. And her serious Joke vote for Mexal seems like a solid day 1 reason to me (although, I guess it could be retconning). I also wonder about the wisdom of FM partners both laying their inital vote on the same player... not improbable, just unwise.

I think Kat looks more suspicious than Gert. That one is easy. Now to evaluate Kat against Harlot. I have to weigh Harlot's vote on possible partner Mex against Kat and Mex voting for the same player out of the gate and their possible relationship from posts 55 and 215.

Kat comes out scummier.

Ranking:
Kat
Harlot
Gert

Mind you, normally this wouldn't be enough for me to lay a vote on someone. But as Kat and I are the only one with votes, and I have a feeling that this is going to be a her or me situation, I will vote [b]Kat[/b] at this time. I still have another reread to do (Spidey -- and that's probably where my vote would end up -- I still don't like his participation in Mex v. WJ) but that is going to have to wait. I am going out for the afternoon, and I may not be back before one of us is lynched. If it turns out to be me, keep Spidey in mind.

[Harlot]

[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1378369' date='May 31 2008, 14.23']I have a secret. Do you guys really want to know why I voted for Mexal on day 1, before switching to Spider? I didn't want to role speculate on D1 because that's...well...bad, but Mexal was the first person to post in the game. Piper said he only sent out PMs to people if they were roled. I didn't even realize the game had started for several hours, but Mexal posted within the first few minutes. Either he was hanging around checking the thread to see if it had started, or he had received a role PM that would have let him know the game had begun. I thought the first was unlikely.[/quote]

It never occurred to you that "FM" is a role? :smoking:

[Ser Spidey]

Gert, I haven't got any troubles regarding AE's idea. I am personally a fan of role discussion. I have problem with it being [i]AE's[/i] idea. She usually objects to this and it's weird for her and a possible indicator of her guilt.

[AutumnEvenings]

[quote name='VerySmallMonster' post='1378046' date='May 31 2008, 00.05']Kat, I find your big defense post suspicious as well. Why would Mexal repeatedly bringing up your post in his attack on WJ based on his reaction to that post mean that you couldn't be partnered? I don't really see how it drags you into the spotlight, or makes it look like you are connected, so I don't see why Mexal would have avoided it.[/quote]Oh, this was something I wanted to comment on too, but I was pretty tired last night.

I don't think Mexal [i]meant[/i] to get in the argument with Whiskeyjack. He pointed out that the post sounded over-defensive but certainly didn't come out fist-ablazing. Whiskeyjack kept provoking him (not in a bad way, but in a "so is this suspicious or not?" "you gonna vote me or not?" way), making it so Mexal either had to back down and be all "just kidding", or face up and fight. So I don't think the fact that Kat made the post that Whiskeyjack was responding to clears Kat in any sort of "a partner would never defend another partner's post like that" way.

Kat's defense gave me mixed feelings as well. But one thing I remember about Kat is that she hates being lynched, especially while away. So...I really just don't know on her.


[quote name='Ser Spidutch' post='1378049' date='May 31 2008, 00.17']This post is really really really suspicious to me. Why? AE speculates on the good roles. I've never played with her, but I've spectated SG 3, during which (and in spoilers) she stated repeatedly that she hates it, it hurts the innocents, etc.[/quote]Ok, a few things. First, I was totally evil in Slow Game Three. This is a true story. :P Second, I did begin my paragraph with "role spec is naughty and all" (or something). I clearly know that role spec is usually a bad, bad idea. I'm vaguely amused that you'd think I'd be famous for hating it, announce it in a post, and go ahead and do it, for some nefarious purpose. But the reason I did it here is because...well look, I'd've chosen "finder" in a heartbeat in a game this small. One-time bulletproof? Psh. And the healer is nice in that it [i]may[/i] give you a NaK, and could [i]maybe[/i] gain an extra day...but a finder will either give you an NaK or a guilty. For sure. That's way better than a chance. And the FM clearly didn't fear the healer, what with going after Whiskeyjack. My general rule of thumb is that the person who has the role knows best if/when to claim. But since the game is so small, the "finder-is-they-chose-it" should come out right away, and I wasn't sure if they'd realize that.

So...yeah, I guess I may have given away the fact that I'm not the roled player. But I think I've done a fairly decent job of attracting the nightkill tonight anyway. :P So it was worth it to me, in case the roled player had chosen the finder and was uncertain about coming out. 'Cause then we'd have to VVVPIs and with me at (unless I'm misreading the thread) VPI, our work would be so close to being done.

But I guess the roled player was Whiskeyjack or didn't chose finder. (And that's something anyone can conclude. :P)
[quote name='Gertrude' post='1378307' date='May 31 2008, 10.04']And here I was all worried about missing a big chunk of game time - should have known, being the weekend and all :P

Here's my problem - 3 of the top suspects (Harlot, West, Kat) have done nothing to alleviate any suspicion from themselves and have, in fact - increased their suspicious behaviors in my eyes.[/quote]I agree that I feel worse about all of them than I did. Except Harlot.

[quote name='Gertrude' post='1378364' date='May 31 2008, 11.14']I feel good about AE and the only thing I really disagree with her on is her suspicion of VSM. I haven't really seen what she is seeing and I can't help but think that if VSM was the other FM, AE would be dead today instead of WJ. Both are formidable opponents but with AE gone, no one would be looking in VSM's direction. Not killing WJ is easily explained away as healer or BP threat.[/quote] I dunno. I mean, if no one else is seeing the VSM stuff, I could very well be wrong. But I don't think me being killed (especially over Whiskeyjack when, I felt, we were both VPI) would entirely clear her. I mean, healer threat and all, but if I were dead, people would remember I suspected her. So I don't think my survival is a point in her favor.[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1378369' date='May 31 2008, 11.23']I have a secret. Do you guys really want to know why I voted for Mexal on day 1, before switching to Spider? I didn't want to role speculate on D1 because that's...well...bad, but Mexal was the first person to post in the game. Piper said he only sent out PMs to people if they were roled. I didn't even realize the game had started for several hours, but Mexal posted within the first few minutes. Either he was hanging around checking the thread to see if it had started, or he had received a role PM that would have let him know the game had begun. I thought the first was unlikely.[/quote]This makes me feel better about Kat. I'd forgotten, but I actually sent in a thought to Piper right when the game began, saying I was trying not to suspect Mexal for meta reasons, since I had no idea the game was even starting on that day till I saw Mexal had posted (I was killing time in the NBA thread. Can't help it.) But really, I thought it was equally likely that Mexal was evil, Mexal had a good role, and Mexal had unlimited free time on his hands to sit around and refresh the board every single minute. (He's always a high poster, after all. :P)

But so yeah, I guess the fact that Kat and I had the same thought (even though she remembered it :P) makes me feel better about her. Doesn't clear her, but kind of undoes (in my opinion) the damage her defense did. :P
[quote name='Harlot' post='1378403' date='May 31 2008, 11.48']And honestly, I am trying to remove some ego issues I have with mafia and how I play vis-a-vis WJ in particular and some other strong players. I'm always suspicious of him and resistant to him. I decided to just trust him this time and worry about D2 later.[/quote]And this rings very true to me and makes me feel a lot better about Harlot, even though I didn't feel that bad about him anyway.


[quote name='West' post='1378473' date='May 31 2008, 12.43']I have to defend myself from these same accuastions in most every game I play. Usually it's Autumn leading the charge... hmmm maybe she's the remainnig baddie :unsure:[/quote]I'm sorry--you brought this up in Slow Game Three when we were evil partners, and I thought you were just BSing. Now apparently you're not. Aside from the big game that happened right at the start of slow game three, where yeah, I totally lead a charge on you and you were totally evil...when has this happened? I really don't remember being some huge opponent of yours. Especially given that this is my third game in like a year.

So...yeah. Explain please.


[quote name='West' post='1378474' date='May 31 2008, 12.44']Ranking:
Kat
Harlot
Gert

Mind you, normally this wouldn't be enough for me to lay a vote on someone. But as Kat and I are the only one with votes, and I have a feeling that this is going to be a her or me situation, I will vote [b]Kat[/b] at this time. I still have another reread to do (Spidey -- and that's probably where my vote would end up -- I still don't like his participation in Mex v. WJ) but that is going to have to wait. I am going out for the afternoon, and I may not be back before one of us is lynched. If it turns out to be me, keep Spidey in mind.[/quote]I dunno...this post just seemed bad to me. I mean, if his vote [i]would[/i] end up on Spidey but he's going out so he'll vote Kat...

It just seems oportunistic (given Gert's stance) and self-preserving. I don't like it.

Right now, my top suspects are [b]West[/b] and VSM. Voting West because I'm willing to admit I might be way off on VSM, and he's done nothing to make me feel any better about him. (I kind of get the "my partner was lynched, now I'm screwed, may as well call it a game then" sense from him.)

[Gertrude]

I could easily go West. His play on the whole screams fishy to me, but I'm trying to separate what little I know of his play style and his actions this game. I still am somewhat baffled about why he has me as a top 3 suspect when no one else seems to even remotely suspect me. I know he's said it was my 4th vote, but still - is that all you've got?

And AE, having you alive instead of WJ does not clear VSM, you're right. I am mostly thinking out loud and most of the time FM act in the most obvious way and it is us innocents who WIFOM to death.

[Harlot]

I will be back before the end of day. I prefer West currently. I should be around when Kat returns for her requested opportunity to post further.

[Piper of Chaos]

It is day 2.

7 players remain: AutumnEvenings, Gertrude, Harlot, Kat, Ser Spider, VerySmallMonster, West.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

2 votes for Kat (VerySmallMonster, West)
2 votes for West (Kat, AutumnEvenings)

3 players have not voted: Gertrude, Harlot, Ser Spider.



8 hours left



I will be online in the Euro morning betweem 7 am and 7.30 am (guess that's 1 am and 1.30 am EST). That's one hour before the timelimit is going to run out. afterwards you might have for

a) Aly to wake up

b) Piper to get home from work


Just in case, send your actions to both Aly and me.

[Alytha]

I'll be off at 11am tomorrow, but I'll endeavour to drag myself in here before that.
Not getting up at 8 on a Sunday morning for all the love in the world though ;)

Piper, you should kick those people who make you work on Sundays. It's inhuman.

Good night :sleep:

[Week]

Er, I may be still up then. Want PMs sent to me as well?

[AutumnEvenings]

More mod posts than player posts, eh?

Gert, I remotely suspect you. :P

I don't have much to say...kinda waiting on West and Kat. (And I guess Spidey.)

[West]

[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1378548' date='May 31 2008, 15.04']I'm sorry--you brought this up in Slow Game Three when we were evil partners, and I thought you were just BSing. Now apparently you're not. Aside from the big game that happened right at the start of slow game three, where yeah, I totally lead a charge on you and you were totally evil...when has this happened? I really don't remember being some huge opponent of yours. Especially given that this is my third game in like a year.

So...yeah. Explain please.

Right now, my top suspects are [b]West[/b] and VSM. Voting West because I'm willing to admit I might be way off on VSM, and he's done nothing to make me feel any better about him. (I kind of get the "my partner was lynched, now I'm screwed, may as well call it a game then" sense from him.)[/quote]
This is a post is joking (hence the smiley.) Remember that while we were baddie partners in SG3, I was at the same time baddie partners with WJ in the Africa game over here. In the Africa game, you spent the entire time harping about my play style... then in the slow game you harped about it. The next game I played was the cartoon game where I acted the same (as an innocent) and got the same accusations (they probably weren't from you, but -- IIRC - I had alt-guessed one of the other players as you. It probably wasn't, but it stuck in my head as you.) So it happened 2 times and my imaginary third. But this is the way I play.

As for the "my partner is lynched and now I am screwed." I did that to WJ in the Africa game and I won't do it again. So this isn't me giving up. This is me saying, "Wake up people... this is how I play!" Recognize it for what it is. Jesus people! You recognize how others play, and meta them. Please remember this for the next game.

So I get lynched. Big deal. It's a team game. You guys will feel foolish for lynching me. I'll feel foolish for making myself lynchable. But it narrows down a suspect, and you will take a closer look at Spider because of it.

[quote name='Gertrude' post='1378577' date='May 31 2008, 15.40']I could easily go West. His play on the whole screams fishy to me, but I'm trying to separate what little I know of his play style and his actions this game. I still am somewhat baffled about why he has me as a top 3 suspect when no one else seems to even remotely suspect me. I know he's said it was my 4th vote, but still - is that all you've got?[/quote]Oh my god! Do you people not even read my posts. If you don't, please don't comment on them.

I very clearly said... I didn't think you were a bad guy. Then I only ranked you with the people I had done rereads on. And look, you are at the bottom of the 3 people I have done. Yes, Gert, the only reason I reread you was you position on lynch of Mex. I can understand being attacked, people, but at least read what I write first. Damn.

edit: btw, Gert, I am allowed to suspect or do rereads of others whether or not there is a group concensus of your guilt. As a member of Team Good, it's my job. So don't act like me rereading you is a sign of my guilt. The fact that you are a bit bothered by it doesn't look good for you.

Off to do my Spidey reread.

[VerySmallMonster]

[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1378548' date='May 31 2008, 17.04']Kat's defense gave me mixed feelings as well. But one thing I remember about Kat is that she hates being lynched, especially while away. So...I really just don't know on her.[/quote] I know Kat hates being lynched but still... I don't think she was in imminent danger of being lynched before she made that post.


[quote]I dunno...this post just seemed bad to me. I mean, if his vote [i]would[/i] end up on Spidey but he's going out so he'll vote Kat...

It just seems oportunistic (given Gert's stance) and self-preserving. I don't like it.

Right now, my top suspects are [b]West[/b] and VSM. Voting West because I'm willing to admit I might be way off on VSM, and he's done nothing to make me feel any better about him. (I kind of get the "my partner was lynched, now I'm screwed, may as well call it a game then" sense from him.)[/quote]
Yeah, I would be willing to lynch West today as well, though I still prefer Kat.

[West]

[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1378548' date='May 31 2008, 15.04']I dunno...this post just seemed bad to me. I mean, if his vote [i]would[/i] end up on Spidey but he's going out so he'll vote Kat...

It just seems oportunistic (given Gert's stance) and self-preserving. I don't like it.[/quote]
One more thing... to call me on this is bullshit, Autumn, and you know it. When it is between two people, and you are one of them, you'd vote for the other as well. Why? Because you know 100% you are innocent, but you can never be sure about the other guy.

So yes it is self-preserving. Opportunistic? No. Yes, I like Spidey better. He ain't getting lynched today. It's me or Kat. I am not voting West.

[Gertrude]

I actually did understand that I was not a high suspect West, just seemed odd that you decided to re-read me of all people because of a 4th vote and nothing else while a second look at Spider is still outstanding.

I'd like to hear from Kat before I vote - tis why I am waiting.

[West]

[quote name='Gertrude' post='1378698' date='May 31 2008, 18.47']I actually did understand that I was not a high suspect West, just seemed odd that you decided to re-read me of all people because of a 4th vote and nothing else while a second look at Spider is still outstanding.

I'd like to hear from Kat before I vote - tis why I am waiting.[/quote]
I already knew how I felt about Spidey... you I had no read on.

[AutumnEvenings]

But it [i]wasn't[/i] "you or Kat" when you placed your vote. You had one vote (by her), she had one (by [s]Gert[/s] VSM), and no one else had votes. It just seems entirely self-serving in a game where [i]clearly[/i] no one is rushing to a lynch to assume that, because the only other person who has a vote is voting you, it's her or you, so you'll vote her and will re-read your favorite suspect later. I had Spidey above Kat on my list, as did you, and yet you conclude that "clearly" he "ain't getting lynched" because...why? I'm sorry, but if you suspect him more, you make a case and you try to get him lynched. It's not like we were at T minus one there.

And so wait: because I lead a charge on you, one time, [i]when you were guilty[/i], and then pointed out some similiarities between that game and another, in which you were [i]also guilty[/i]...you decide that you are being persecuted for your playstyle? And then because you make a wrong alt-guess about someone who suspects you and decide that person is me, even though it totally wasn't, you think it's weird that in [i]this game[/i] I am not leading a charge on you and I thus might be the remaining baddie?

I think :o pretty much sums it up...

Edit: Sorry, vote was by VSM, Gert had removed hers saying Kat's meta thing made sense.

[VerySmallMonster]

[quote name='West' post='1378702' date='May 31 2008, 20.52']I already knew how I felt about Spidey... you I had no read on.[/quote]
Can you remind me why you are suspicious of Spider? The only thing I saw looking through your posts was that you felt he was egging Mexal on, but that was assuming that Mexal and WJ were both innocent.