Mafia Mini a la surprise

[Kat]

[quote name='Harlot' post='1378486' date='May 31 2008, 12.52']It never occurred to you that "FM" is a role? :smoking:[/quote]

That's why my vote was originally there. Because 2/3 of the roles are FM. But I didn't want to use that reasoning, lest I out a good role. :|

<still reading thread>

[West]

[s]Spidey[/s] Venom reread.

First real post:
66: He repsonds to Mex who asked why he translated all the names into Croatian.

68: After Mex claims he was just posting to pad his post count, Venom claims he is having fun. Then he parrots Mex saying WJ was over-defensive.

70 - Says he thinks Kat was joking in her middle sentence of post 55

74 - "Fixes" WJ post. Prods WJ on the overdefensive issue.

86 - Blames parroting on Mex.

90, 91, 95, 96, 98 - More needling of WJ.

128 - Says he was participating in the fight, not just parroting. Needles WJ some more.

130 - Responds to Kat's vote on him. Says WJ is ignoring him. Says you must nitpick a player like WJs post because he doesn't make mistakes.

135 - Votes WJ because he is most suspicious.

145 - Wants West to explain his vote on him (something that I had clearly already done.)

Posts after Lynch and Night Kill
219 - Suspicious of Autumn because he brought up role discussion.

220 - Gives suspect list: West, Harlot, Autumn, Kat, VSM, Gert.

246 - Re-explains why his suspicous of Autumn.


Again, I think Spidey looks very scummy here. He prods a long a fight with a FM (Mex) and an innocent (WJ,) helping the FM attack the innocent. He votes for the innocent and leaves. I looks to me like Spidey and Mex made a concerted effort to oust WJ via lynch rather than incure his wrath by Night Killing him. Too bad it didn't work and Spidey had to go to Plan B.

I do think Spidey is the most likely candidate for FM at this time. And I am more than happy to vote for him (in fact, I'd rather vote for him) but I cannot be the only one, and I have to protect myself in this game (by leaving my vote on Kat.)

Ranking of current FM candidates.
Spidey
Kat
Harlot
Gert
Autumn
West.

No I didn't do a re-read of Autumn. I have done 4 rereads already and find Autumn innocent enough to my satisfaction. I'll do her last if I am still alive.

VSM I don't have a read on however... I guess she is next. But from memory I don't recall anything about her sticking out.

[VerySmallMonster]

West, what do you make of the argument that Mexal and Spider would not have been working together in thread so much that way if they were actually partnered?

[Kat]

Ok, here's the main reason I suspect West over Harlot--Harlot made it clear who his suspects were at the beginning of the day. He suspected me first, and then some others. I said I suspected West, then Harlot. I waver on Harlot, obviously, but he's still behind West on my suspicious list. West, however, did not seem to come into Day 2 with a concrete list of who was suspicious and who was not, and I've had the feeling all day that he saw Harlot list me as a top suspect, saw how Gert and VSM suspected me too, and then decided that'd he'd save me for later so that he could justify voting for me, rather than making a case on someone early in the day and sticking to that person.

When AE pointed out how he could have voted for someone else, he went and made another suspect list and now he ranks Spider above me. I just don't like it.

Really, the main reason why I suspect West is this point--it's this post (some explanation cut for length). See, that's the sort of long post I like to make when I'm evil. Defend against an attacker, then list out every single possibility/scenario so later I can go back and say "See, I told you he could have been evil/innocent! It was in my list of possibilities!"

But then by voting for a third candidate (one with a vote from me already) he makes it so he doesn't even have to pick a side in the heated argument.

[quote name='West' post='1377536' date='May 30 2008, 13.35']First off... YEAH!!!! I am done with work until mid-August!

OK... on to the game

erm... thanks? I always sound forced? If I always sound forced then that forced sound would be my natural sound... thus it wouldn't sound suspicious.

And no, we do not agree on much do we?

Here is the problem, WJ: it is difficult to tell innocent WJ from FM WJ. I cannot do it... I just don't have the meta-abilities. However, I have seen you lead people around by the nose as evil too many times -- and how is this done? Just as Mex said... twisting peoples words back on them (and I might have added choosing a weak player to do it to, too - but that is probably an overgeneralization.) You have done it to me (Dany's Egg game - Innocent West lynched day one with an argument that started very similar to "your posts sound forced"). I am not saying that you don't do it as innocent as well. I am saying that since you do it as both, I cannot trust you even though you might be innocent. My first inclination is to paint you as the baddie and be done with you.

But in order to be more than just [s]tunnelvisioned[/s] the mediocre player than I am, I am willing to look at you from more than one angle.

[u]Scenario 1: both WJ and Mex are innocent[/u]
[u]Scenario 2: both WJ and Mex are mafia[/u]
[u]Scenario 3: WJ FM, Mex innocent[/u]
[u]Scenario 4: WJ innocent, Mex FM[/u]

I am going to lay my vote for [b]Ser Spider[/b] and his scummy behavior during the argument egging the participants on.

****
On a side note. Nope, I don't typically post during the day. As mentioned over and over I don't have access to this site during school -- but that shouldn't be a problem now. (But I think I am getting a new tattoo tomorrow. That may take hours as well.)

****
I'd cast the final vote only to get the lynch Harlot. And WJ is (from my POV) a better candiate for FM than you are.[/quote]

I've just never liked this post. At all.



He also never really takes side on Mexal or Harlot being a good lynch.

[quote name='West' post='1377694' date='May 30 2008, 15.40']1. Spider
2. WJ
4. Mexal/Harlot - only for the lynch[/quote]

Eh. It's mainly his gameplay which makes me want to lynch him. I don't even like the way he backtracked on lynching [i]me[/i].

But I already voted for West, not going to do it again. :)

[West]

[quote name='VerySmallMonster' post='1378728' date='May 31 2008, 19.29']West, what do you make of the argument that Mexal and Spider would not have been working together in thread so much that way if they were actually partnered?[/quote]
It is a valid argument. But other than myself, no one is a better candidate IMO.

Also, the glory of lynching WJ who "has never been lynched as an innocent" might be enough for them to risk it. And the WIFOM argument of "FM would never do such a thing" is to their advantage here.

All in all, I cannot rule Spidey out based on that. Especially since no one else seems to work as Mex's partner.

[West]

[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1378704' date='May 31 2008, 18.56']But it [i]wasn't[/i] "you or Kat" when you placed your vote. You had one vote (by her), she had one (by [s]Gert[/s] VSM), and no one else had votes. It just seems entirely self-serving in a game where [i]clearly[/i] no one is rushing to a lynch to assume that, because the only other person who has a vote is voting you, it's her or you, so you'll vote her and will re-read your favorite suspect later. I had Spidey above Kat on my list, as did you, and yet you conclude that "clearly" he "ain't getting lynched" because...why? I'm sorry, but if you suspect him more, you make a case and you try to get him lynched. It's not like we were at T minus one there.

And so wait: because I lead a charge on you, one time, [i]when you were guilty[/i], and then pointed out some similiarities between that game and another, in which you were [i]also guilty[/i]...you decide that you are being persecuted for your playstyle? And then because you make a wrong alt-guess about someone who suspects you and decide that person is me, even though it totally wasn't, you think it's weird that in [i]this game[/i] I am not leading a charge on you and I thus might be the remaining baddie?

I think :o pretty much sums it up...

Edit: Sorry, vote was by VSM, Gert had removed hers saying Kat's meta thing made sense.[/quote]
C'mon Autumn, don't treat me like I am stupid.

Harlot, post 205:
[quote]To me Kat looks the worst of these, then West than VSM.[/quote]

You, Autumn, post 214:
[quote]I think I'd have to say I suspect, in order:
1) VSM
2) West
3) Spidey
4) Kat
5) Harlot
6) Gert[/quote]

Spidey, post 220:
[quote]1. West-his 'I'm getting lynched' post rings totally false. Yesterday he listed Mex behind me and WJ.
2. Harlot-he's not playing his usual game, and this concerns me. See WJ's theory-possible connection with Mex.
3. AE-her role discussion is out of place.
4. Kat-mixed feelings on her
5. VSM-I tend to agree with her and see nothing nefarious about her play. Still, I'd like her to post more and take stronger stances.
6. Gert-see above, but I just trust her more.[/quote]

Kat, post 231:
I[quote]'ll start with West, my top suspect.[/quote]

Gert, post 232:
[quote]Right now I am feeling that my preferred lynch order is Kat, Harlot, West.[/quote]

(VSM is the only one who hasn't posted a list of suspects... erm... let me check that. No I am wrong in post 255 she says:
[quote]Yeah, I would be willing to lynch West today as well, though I still prefer Kat.[/quote] But that is after my vote.)

So from those I am supposed to conclude Spidey is a viable lynch. You are the only one to even list him at all. I could have voted for Harlot, I suppose, but he is lower than Kat on my list... and he didn't have any votes.

Spin it any way you want. The lynch is between Kat and I. We have been the only two serious candidates all day. No amount of balderdash from you will change it.

As for being persecuted for my playstyle... I wouldn't call it "persecuted;" I am a realist... I'd call it "the way life is." I don't think I am being picked on. I know that I sound guilty every time I play. I accept that. But I still get to defend myself from it.

eta: I could have voted for VSM as well, I guess. But since I hadn't (and still haven't) reread her, so I am not going to lay a vote on her. Overall, she isn't anymore a viable candidate than Spidey.

[West]

[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1378739' date='May 31 2008, 19.46']He also never really takes side on Mexal or Harlot being a good lynch.


But I already voted for West, not going to do it again. :)[/quote]

LOL, Kat... I clearly take a side. I thought neither was a good lynch. Thus listing both Spidey and WJ in front of him.

And thanks for not voting me twice.

I am taking a break. Be back later.

[Gertrude]

From here on out we are just going to have to make a judgement call on day 1 actions barring any great insight or slip up. The last FM is alone and has no one to defend and his only job is staying alive through 2 lynches, which we are all trying to do, frankly.

I do actually agree with AE's point that West didn't have a clear line on suspects at the beginning of the day and his priority for a re-read was Harlot and I. West, I'm not trying to say you can't investigate who you want, but me in the mix doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you hadn't yet looked at people you supposedly suspect more than me. It looks like digging up dirt to see what might stick.

[b]West[/b]

[West]

[quote name='Gertrude' post='1378755' date='May 31 2008, 20.21']From here on out we are just going to have to make a judgement call on day 1 actions barring any great insight or slip up. The last FM is alone and has no one to defend and his only job is staying alive through 2 lynches, which we are all trying to do, frankly.

I do actually agree with AE's point that West didn't have a clear line on suspects at the beginning of the day and his priority for a re-read was Harlot and I. West, I'm not trying to say you can't investigate who you want, but me in the mix doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you hadn't yet looked at people you supposedly suspect more than me. It looks like digging up dirt to see what might stick.

[b]West[/b][/quote]

So, you are saying that I should have first reread the personI already suspected - Spidey (the only person I have suspected this whole game) - before rereading new suspects? Nope... not gonna happen. You don't get to decide how I play my game. You can protest how I play by laying your vote (which you have done) but the next game, I will still play it however I want too. You see, I won't be bullied.

Good night all. GL tomorrow... whether I am alive or not

[VerySmallMonster]

[quote name='Gertrude' post='1378755' date='May 31 2008, 22.21']From here on out we are just going to have to make a judgement call on day 1 actions barring any great insight or slip up. The last FM is alone and has no one to defend and his only job is staying alive through 2 lynches, which we are all trying to do, frankly.[/quote] I was thinking about this earlier, and I actually think there is a difference. The FM has to survive 3 lynches (by my count), but the innocents only actually have to survive one, if that one is the FM. This is another reason Kat's defense last night bothers me so much; she wrote that long post defending herself preemptively, and almost nothing on suspects.

[Harlot]

I am home and caught up. West and Kat have both had their say. West just doesn't sound genuine to me. I agree there's a certain desperation there. Let's hope this ends it.

[b]West[/b]

[Gertrude]

[quote name='West' post='1378773' date='May 31 2008, 21.13']So, you are saying that I should have first reread the personI already suspected - Spidey (the only person I have suspected this whole game) - before rereading new suspects?[/quote]

Whoa cowboy - this wasn't directed towards anyone in particular. I was just thinking out loud and making an observation. We do need to dissect and look at anyone for their day 1 actions and anything that relates to them. And we can bring new insights to the table, I just think that the rest of the game will not produce a smoking gun and that we have pretty much all the evidence we are going to get already. And it should be all we need if we can just put it together right. And it was probably unnecessary, but I pretty much just throw out whatever I'm thinking on thread so that it's there and can be used. If West is lynched and is not guilty, my preference is Kat, then Harlot (in case I die - just so you know)

(I guess West [i]is[/i] in fact lynched with Harlot's vote)

[Whiskeyjack]

I don't see any mods around, so I'll step in.

It is day 2.

7 players remain: AutumnEvenings, Gertrude, Harlot, Kat, Ser Spider, VerySmallMonster, West.

4 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

4 votes for West (Kat, AutumnEvenings, Gertrude, Harlot)
2 votes for Kat (VerySmallMonster, West)

1 player has not voted: Ser Spider.


[b]West[/b] has been lynched.

SPOILER: He was....

....innocent.

It is night. PM your mods if you have an action to take.

[Kat]

[quote name='VerySmallMonster' post='1378774' date='May 31 2008, 20.13']I was thinking about this earlier, and I actually think there is a difference. The FM has to survive 3 lynches (by my count), but the innocents only actually have to survive one, if that one is the FM. This is another reason Kat's defense last night bothers me so much; she wrote that long post defending herself preemptively, and almost nothing on suspects.[/quote]

Eh, I hope the game ends now. But...well...I really don't see what's wrong with defenses. Seriously. From the POV of an innocent, not letting myself get lynched is still a priority--that means there's more spaces to lynch people I think could be evil. But since I barely said anything, and people's problems were like "Kat is a suspect by process of elimination/because WJ doesn't like her" the only thing I had to go off of was trying to find evidence that I wasn't Mexal's partner.

Again, hopefully this'll end it, but I can't say for sure.

[Kat]

:(

[Gertrude]

Well that sucks. Sorry West.

Hi Kat :devil:

[Kat]

No, you will NOT lynch me today either.

Not without a fight, anyway.

[Piper of Chaos]

As the night began, you [s]threw the corpses of WJ and West into the next ravine[/s] buried the corpses of WJ and West. You decided to keep Mexal's one around, to kick in his face violently from time to time, which made you feel better about your own shitty situation.


As you wake up the next morning you start to begin a yodel contest.

SPOILER: all but

Gertrude, who is lying there in Mexal's place.

Creepy.....

[Piper of Chaos]

[quote name='Whiskeydracul' post='1378851' date='Jun 1 2008, 07.06']It is night. PM your mods if you have an action to take.[/quote]


Or everyone who is spoilered and that I forgot to mention... :P

[Kat]

:uhoh:

For some reason, I feel like I should be considering VSM as a suspect. I almost want to ask to be lynched because mafia is [i]hard[/i], but I have my pride to worry about here, so... :|

AE, any ideas? :P