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Piper of Chaos

Mafia Mini a la surprise

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Sorry I'm late to the party, but I see the show has started. Oooh it's my favorite - WJ v Mex.

*grabs popcorn*

[i]I wish I had more to say about the game, but I just quickly read through it, skimmed a lot of the WJ/Mex/Spidey comments and plan to comment when I can get a better handle. So ... yeah. Gonna go back to work now and I'll weigh in when I can. Sorry again[/i]

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[quote name='Mexal der Mann' post='1377002' date='May 30 2008, 10.53']Well, I did comment on it. I just didn't have anything particularly interesting to say since I was too busy declaring us friend finders before I went to work and then dealing with you since I've been at work.

I don't buy the case. It looks like a case of taking two statements and throwing hidden meaning behind it.[/quote]

You barely acknowledged the case.

And I still think this whole attack on me is trumped up bullshit. Have a hard time believing that you genuinely believe in it. So I'm asking myself, why would you go down this path?

The first answer I can think of is that you're doing it to distract us from the case against Harlot. A few people were buying into it. Perhaps you wanted to give us something else to talk about. Shift the focus off of him. Provide another suspect.

Kind of fits with how you handled your vote. Kept it on Harlot, in case people dismissed your concerns about me and went in his direction instead. Tried to maintain the middle of the road, "I suspect you, but I'm not sure you're guilty" stance regarding me. Didn't commit to voting for me until I called you on it.

The other possibility is that you're just way off in this game, and that Spider is the evil one. Either way, I feel fairly strong that one of you is a FM. And if its you, then I think there's a chance you are tied to Harlot.

Pretty sure our best course of action is to lynch you today. [b]Mexal[/b]

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[b]remove vote[/b] My Spidey summoning succeeded.

My comment on WJ: I'll gladly admit that I can't judge between "evil WJ" vs. "inno WJ." To me he always looks to be manipulating the game and he always throws back attacks at the attacker in the games I've played with him. So I think it's a null-tell at this point.

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[quote name='Harlot' post='1377159' date='May 30 2008, 10.57'][b]remove vote[/b] My Spidey summoning succeeded.

My comment on WJ: I'll gladly admit that I can't judge between "evil WJ" vs. "inno WJ." To me he always looks to be manipulating the game and he always throws back attacks at the attacker in the games I've played with him. So I think it's a null-tell at this point.[/quote]

Well, I'm glad that somebody recognizes that. :P

How do you feel about Mexal and Ser Spider?

Do you have thoughts on any of the other players?

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Hmm.

At first I wanted to be glib about "who'd've thought a game with Whiskeyjack and Mexal would turn into them fighting?"

Now I need to think about it. :P Seriously, I'm trying to shake the feeling that it's staged. Or at least partly staged.

I don't buy Mexal's original arguement that WJ was being overdefensive because he used "really" twice (to simpligy). I mean...first, the question had been raised [i]three[/i] times in as many posts (me saying it 'made me nervous', VSM calling it 'spooky', and Kat saying she was leaving her vote on Mexal till it was explained). Now...I don't think any of us three were about to lynch either Mexal or Whiskeyjack over it, but nonetheless, that does seem to indicate that it requires a response. I actually found Mexal's response very unsatisfactory. (But Whiskeyjack was the one 'following' him, not vice versa.) And I didn't like him calling the Harlot case "a true work of beauty" and leaving it at that, and then jumping headfirst into argument with Whiskeyjack once he (Whiskeyjack) appeared.

I don't know quite what to make of the two of you. But I think Mexal comes off worse for the exchange, because things like "I'm evaluating your response, it may or may not be suspicious" (basically) and [quote name='Mexal']I never said it was more likely you'd do it as evil. I said you do it, especially as evil.[/quote] just look bad. I'm sorry, but if you want to accuse someone of twisting words and arguments or being overdefensive or whatever, don't try to pretend that "you do this especially when you're evil" is any different than "you sometimes do this when you're innocent, but you especially do it when you're evil, so it's pretty much a strong indicator that you're evil".

Spidey hopping in and out of the argument...eh. It [i]was[/i] what was going on. But it also comes across as weird. I haven't played much (any?) with Spider, so I don't know, but it does seem like he's making a hell of a lot of effort to "be involved". I generally read that as a sign of really-not-wanting-to-be-lynched, which in most people is a sign of evilness. :P Also, same nitpciking: "He thinks you're evil, he hasn't *concluded* it"...gross. Regardless, I'd like to hear some original thoughts (not just Croatian translations) from you please.

My vote goes to [b]VerySmallMonster[/b] though. Love you babe, good to see you around and all, and I definitely understand about limited time constraints, but you really, really (two reallys!) could have done more with the time you had last (real life) night.

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Actually.... :uhoh:

I actually [i]was[/i] serious about my reasoning. Apparently I was tired, because it really makes no sense to me now.

[b]Ser Spider[/b]; I don't like the way he keeps posting and keeps pointing out that he has the same ideas as Mexal.


Edit: But it's tough because I don't like how Mexal's defending me, [i]or[/i] how WJ went into early attack-mode against Harlot on something I didn't find particularly suspicious. I actually agree with Spider and Mexal about how evil WJ plays, no matter how many times WJ wants to deny it. [i]However[/i], I'm not sure I want to characterize him as evil just yet.

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[quote name='Whiskeydracul' post='1377130' date='May 30 2008, 12.44']I don't see why that would matter. Either way, I'm leading an attack against him. Doesn't matter what prompted that attack. Either way, he's accusing me of being evil because I'm 'twisting his words' and 'trying to trap him'. And he claims that I do that when I'm evil.

Well, he made those same accusations in Game 48, and I was innocent. And by the way, take a wild guess at who was evil. The person who was making those accusations - Mexal.[/quote]

I'll address the rest later when I have a minute but this stood out.

In game 48, you and Piper were attacking me in an all out attack. My attack of you twisting words wasn't to make you look guilty but to show that your argument was shit since it was based on suppositions. You then tried to trap me when you decided I was guilty and I then argued that you had tunnel-vision. At no point did I use that argument to prove you were guilty.

However, I did use that argument in the Kingmaker game and we were both innocent and I've seen you play that way as evil; an example would be when you went after AE when you were partners with Dragnix and West. She went after you for illogical reasons and you turned it around on her and made a case. She was almost lynched but got out of it by claiming vig. You were evil that game.

So please, do not try to compare this with game 48 because they are completely different situations with different arguments.

Now I have some shit to do, I'll respond to the rest later.

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If I had to chose sides between Mex and WJ right now, it would be WJ. His vote for Harlot was a decent place to start - didn't have to be a solid case at all. WJ's being 'overdefensive' likewise is a good place to start to generate discussion. Mex totally dismissed Kat's vote as non serious, but I was under the impression it was (as was WJ)However - I don't particulary want to vote either one. Spidey doesn't bother me in this last exchange, so he's ok for now too.

Actually, I'm gonna lay down for [b]Harlot[/b] right now. Partly because it's (maybe) possible we were distracted from him by the Whisky/Mex showdown - and mostly because he did the annoying thing of complaining about lack of activity while doing nothing to promote it.

(eta: Just re-read this post and want to clarify - those aren't the only reasons I think Mex comes out on the bottom of this argument, just what I was thinking off the top of my head. It's the whole body of work and I think Mexal's version is a bit more stretchy.)

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Mexal, I am just warning you that I'm very fed up with you (and others) bringing up my gameplay and calling it awful, illogical, etc. in the last game I played. You were so rude about it in the spoilers that [i]several[/i] people jumped on you, and many of them said my gameplay was just fine and dandy, if not excellent. I refrained from posting entirely because it wasn't worth it to me to get into it, as you would clearly not listen to me, and I don't much care what you think of me. Yet you keep bringing it up though (you seem to forget that I'm (for a few more days, anyway) a metamod, and thus am often tasked with reading games I'm not playing in and spoilers I'm not posting in), and are always rude about it. So lay off.

Sorry for making this public as it really doesn't belong in the game, but I can't contact you off-thread, and I'm frankly beyond sick of the attitude you display. Especially since, you know, suspecting someone for various reasons, including meta reasons, is hardly unique and is being displayed [i]by you[/i] in this very game.

/rant

Edit: Hi Gert :)

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[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1377233' date='May 30 2008, 12.38']Mexal, I am just warning you that I'm very fed up with you (and others) bringing up my gameplay and calling it awful, illogical, etc. in the last game I played. You were so rude about it in the spoilers that [i]several[/i] people jumped on you, and many of them said my gameplay was just fine and dandy, if not excellent. I refrained from posting entirely because it wasn't worth it to me to get into it, as you would clearly not listen to me, and I don't much care what you think of me. Yet you keep bringing it up though (you seem to forget that I'm (for a few more days, anyway) a metamod, and thus am often tasked with reading games I'm not playing in and spoilers I'm not posting in), and are always rude about it. So lay off.

Sorry for making this public as it really doesn't belong in the game, but I can't contact you off-thread, and I'm frankly beyond sick of the attitude you display. Especially since, you know, suspecting someone for various reasons, including meta reasons, is hardly unique and is being displayed [i]by you[/i] in this very game.

/rant

Edit: Hi Gert :)[/quote]

Give me a break. I have my opinion and I'll state it. If you have a problem with it, deal with it or take it up with me in private. To me, it was illogical. You disagree. Others disagreed and others agreed. I could care less if you read the spoilers, read the other games or genuinely dislike me. It's my opinion on the matter. It had nothing to do with you as a person but your play in that game and that's one opinion I'm entitled to make and will make.

And no, my argument in this game is not meta based. It's based on his actions in this game, my feeling that his reaction was unnecessary and that I felt he was manipulating the attack I started onto him into a full blown attack me.

Anyway, I'm stepping away for awhile now. That post really pissed me off.

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There are a lot of strong personalities in this particular game. Which is a great thing, and which has me really enjoying it thus far. But its also a dangerous thing. I think we'd all be best served by remembering that its just a game, and that we should treat each other with as much respect as is possible. This isn't directed to any one person in particular....just a general comment. Lets argue, but at the same time, lets try to do our best to keep things fun and happy.

And if I completely go against my own recommendation at a later part in the game, then I apologize in advance. :P

[quote name='Mexal der Mann' post='1377249' date='May 30 2008, 11.46']And no, my argument in this game is not meta based. It's based on his actions in this game, my feeling that his reaction was unnecessary and that I felt he was manipulating the attack I started onto him into a full blown attack me.[/quote]

You said this -

[quote name='Mexal']It's manipulative and I see that it's in your best interests to make me look as bad as possible since I'm the one attacking you. [u]It's something you've done before and it's exactly what I'd expect you as evil to do in this situation[/u], especially when it seems like you can't believe you're being called evil based on what you would consider "poor logic" since to you, your responses don't indicate one way or another your alignment.[/quote]

That's a meta argument. Yeah, the supposed foundation of your analysis is my gameplay in this game....but you're using your alleged meta knowledge of me to make the leap to 'WJ is evil' when you make the claim that 'its something WJ has done before as an evil player'.

I have more to say, but lunch just got here. Pizza is more important than mafia. :P

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[quote name='Gertrude' post='1377231' date='May 30 2008, 13.37']If I had to chose sides between Mex and WJ right now, it would be WJ. His vote for Harlot was a decent place to start - didn't have to be a solid case at all. WJ's being 'overdefensive' likewise is a good place to start to generate discussion. Mex totally dismissed Kat's vote as non serious, but I was under the impression it was (as was WJ)However - I don't particulary want to vote either one. Spidey doesn't bother me in this last exchange, so he's ok for now too.

Actually, I'm gonna lay down for [b]Harlot[/b] right now. Partly because it's (maybe) possible we were distracted from him by the Whisky/Mex showdown - and mostly because he did the annoying thing of complaining about lack of activity while doing nothing to promote it.[/quote]
I pretty much agree with this. I'm not feeling particularly suspicious of Mexal or WJ right now. I don't think that WJ being defensive says much about his alignment, but I also don't think Mexal questioning him on it is suspicious, especially on day 1. I definitely don't think this argument is being staged for our benefit either.

I also agree with the vote on [b]Harlot[/b]. I would still like to see him respond to the case. His only reaction to it so far was saying something along the lines of 'being concerned about participation is bad?', but well... he voted for someone that his post indicates he knew was asleep, which makes it even more pointless than most summoning votes. Defending it by saying he was concerned about participation just makes it look worse.

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[quote name='Whiskeydracul' post='1377274' date='May 30 2008, 11.57']Pizza is more important than mafia. :P[/quote]
Agreed.

Doesn't anyone else want to lynch VSM? :cry:

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[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1377197' date='May 30 2008, 13.14']My vote goes to [b]VerySmallMonster[/b] though. Love you babe, good to see you around and all, and I definitely understand about limited time constraints, but you really, really (two reallys!) could have done more with the time you had last (real life) night.[/quote]
Eh, you are probably right, but I couldn't think of anything else to add. I didn't feel like RPing (especially not by myself :P), and I didn't see much serious stuff to comment on other than the Harlot case.

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[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1377298' date='May 30 2008, 14.08']Agreed.

Doesn't anyone else want to lynch VSM? :cry:[/quote]
Of course not. I'm too small and cute. ;)

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You've got vicious teeth though.

So...thoughts on the game? If Kat and Harlot were drowning and you could only lynch one, which would it be?

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[quote name='Whiskeydracul' post='1377274' date='May 30 2008, 12.57']Pizza is more important than mafia. :P[/quote]

Doesn't anyone find this comment suspicious? When have you ever known WJ to rank pizza before Mafia? Seriously. No one else finds this suspicious? Really? Really?

I think that he is trying to lower his threat level by seeming all human and friendly. You can't be intimidated by someone who has pizza burns on the roof of his mouth, right? I think this 'pizza delivery' was a carefuly calculated move to gain our trust. I just don't like it at all. I've got my eye on you WJ.


[i]just in case - you all know I'm not serious, right?[/i] :P)

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Wait, if one of us gets lynched, that means the other drowns?

How did [i]I[/i] get stuck with this deal, anyway?

I have to go for a while...it's time for the Afternoon of Potential Ex-Boyfriend Drama :rolleyes: but I should be back before nightfall. I'd consider voting for Harlot at this point too.

And then I'll drown.

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[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1377322' date='May 30 2008, 14.19']You've got vicious teeth though.[/quote] Hmmph. I can'th help ith if my theeth are big. :cry:

[quote]So...thoughts on the game? If Kat and Harlot were drowning and you could only lynch one, which would it be?[/quote]
Harlot.

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