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Piper of Chaos

Mafia Mini a la surprise

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Are you not paying attention AE? Obviously VSM has impeccable instincts and irrefutible logic and agrees with me and has voted Harlot.

A more interesting question might be, if [i]you[/i] and Kat were drowning and I could only lynch one - who would it be?

I don't have an answer for that right now. You both seems to be A-OK and within normal parameters, etc.

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Well, I'm only sort of paying attention. ;) But see, I'm voting VSM right now. It's fun to make her comment on the game and to guage how serious her vote on Harlot is and stuff. If she doesn't chew my femoral artery ('cause that's the only one she can reach :P) off with her little teeth, she might say something that makes me suspect someone else, and then I vote [i]them[/i] until they die or someone else is worse.

It's a fun game. :P

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[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1376359' date='May 30 2008, 01.31']Harlot does not seem especially evil to me based on Whiskeyjack's reasoning.[/quote]


[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1377200' date='May 30 2008, 12.16']I don't like how Mexal's defending me, [i]or[/i] how WJ went into early attack-mode against Harlot on something I didn't find particularly suspicious.[/quote]


[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1377329' date='May 30 2008, 13.22']I should be back before nightfall. I'd consider voting for Harlot at this point too.[/quote]

Huh? How does that add up? Are you just saying that you'd vote for him to get a lynch, or has something changed?

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[quote name='Gertrude' post='1377365' date='May 30 2008, 13.39']WJ - why do you feel that one of Mex or Spidey is evil?[/quote]

Because I find it unlikely that two innocent players would be so taken in by the poor argument they are making. One, maybe. But both of them is stretching it.* I also think it's unlikely that they'd both attack me like that if they were FM partners. So I'm left thinking that one of them is probably evil.

I'm also still quite willing to vote for Harlot. Based partly on the case I made against him earlier, and partly on a possible connection to Mexal.


*ETA - Keep in mind, this is coming from the perspective of somebody who knows their argument is false, and who can see that much of it...especially the part about how "this is how WJ acts when he's evil"....is just complete bullshit.

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[quote name='Whiskeydracul' post='1377378' date='May 30 2008, 13.47']*ETA - Keep in mind, this is coming from the perspective of somebody who knows their argument is false, and who can see that much of it...especially the part about how "this is how WJ acts when he's evil"....is just complete bullshit.[/quote]

Of course, because you never do that when you're evil. There was not one statement that definitively said that you are acting like evil WJ. But that's ok, make my case about that.

There is a CF and a potential finder and here I am making a case on WJ (the hardest person to make a case on) on day 1 (which no one seems to realize since they expect some level of absolute brilliance from me) in order to protect my partner Harlot? I guess that makes sense, especially since I have a history if protecting partners :rolleyes:

If I've learned anything from this game, it's never attack WJ on day 1 no matter if you think he's guilty or not and never criticize someone else's play. It's simply impossible to prove if he's Evil WJ or Innocent WJ because there is no difference between the two and ultimately, you're going to look poorly because of it, even if you are innocent :dunno:

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OK, here's the thing - is Harlot really all that suspicious or is he just a good target? We have just three lynches to figure this thing out, and I'm not feeling good that my main reason for voting Harlot is that he hasn't done much to move things along and he [i]might[/i] be connected to Mex.

WJ, if you are pretty sure that Mex or Spidey is evil, why are you considering Harlot? Just to get a lynch through? How much of your initial case on Harlot was pushing to get discussion going and how much was real suspicion?

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[quote name='Whiskeydracul' post='1377378' date='May 30 2008, 20.47']Because I find it unlikely that two innocent players would be so taken in by the poor argument they are making. One, maybe. But both of them is stretching it.* I also think it's unlikely that they'd both attack me like that if they were FM partners. So I'm left thinking that one of them is probably evil.[/quote]
WJ, remember the game 46? :P

Kat, AE, I was involved in the ongoing discussion. There was hardly any content before this, apart from WJ's far-fetched case on Harlot. Should have I made a case on an absent person? It got the game going, it's all that matters. I was not hopping in the discussion, I participated in it. WJ just decided to reply to Mex more because he percieved him as a bigger threat.

I'm not offended by anything in Mafia. Seriously. I was just saying that WJ implying Mex and I are dumb for suspected him is counter-productive and a possible defense tactic.

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[quote name='Gertrude' post='1377402' date='May 30 2008, 13.05']OK, here's the thing - is Harlot really all that suspicious or is he just a good target? We have just three lynches to figure this thing out, and I'm not feeling good that my main reason for voting Harlot is that he hasn't done much to move things along and he [i]might[/i] be connected to Mex.

WJ, if you are pretty sure that Mex or Spidey is evil, why are you considering Harlot? Just to get a lynch through? How much of your initial case on Harlot was pushing to get discussion going and how much was real suspicion?[/quote]

My vote is on Mexal. He's my preference. However, like I said above, when I asked myself why an evil Mexal would go down this path, the first thing that came to mind was that he was distracting us from the Harlot case. And I still think Harlot was acting suspicious. So I wouldn't mind lynching Harlot either.


[quote name='Mexal']There is a CF and a potential finder and here I am making a case on WJ (the hardest person to make a case on) on day 1 (which no one seems to realize since they expect some level of absolute brilliance from me) in order to protect my partner Harlot? I guess that makes sense, especially since I have a history if protecting partners[/quote]

1) You're the last person in the world who can use the 'I would never dare make a case on WJ if I was evil' defense. You've said a million times how you aren't afraid of anybody. I don't believe for a second that you'd ever choose to avoid making a case against me. Some other people....yeah, definitely. They'd steer clear of me. But not you.

2) You didn't directly defend Harlot. You just distracted from him. And at the same time, you kept your vote on him. You were covered, regardless of how things went. Until I called you on it.

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[quote name='Katarina die Siegerin' post='1377200' date='May 30 2008, 18.16'][b]Ser Spider[/b]; I don't like the way he keeps posting and keeps pointing out that he has the same ideas as Mexal.[/quote]
So, you're saying that when I had the time to participate, I shouldn't have? Yeah, that makes sense. :P

Also, if you check my posts, you'll notice that I do bring up some original points against WJ. It's not my fault that WJ replied to those only when Mex raised them again.
[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1377197' date='May 30 2008, 18.14']Spidey hopping in and out of the argument...eh. It [i]was[/i] what was going on. But it also comes across as weird. I haven't played much (any?) with Spider, so I don't know, but it does seem like he's making a hell of a lot of effort to "be involved". I generally read that as a sign of really-not-wanting-to-be-lynched, which in most people is a sign of evilness. :P Also, same nitpciking: "He thinks you're evil, he hasn't *concluded* it"...gross. Regardless, I'd like to hear some original thoughts (not just Croatian translations) from you please.[/quote]
Nitpicking? Perhaps, but you won't catch evil WJ making major mistakes. Sometimes you HAVE to nitpick to find an evil player.

Harlot, post!

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The Harlot case was going on, yeah. But also, which is what bugs me, [i]three[/i] people (in a game that takes five to lynch) had commented on you two were voting together. His (Mexal's) initial response seemed "off" to me, and then he did nothing but wait for you to show up and begin quarelling with you. It just seems really weird to me; like we said "you guys seem like partners" and his response is "haha, no" followed by "he's the bad one, he's the bad one, he's the bad one!"

But then again, I didn't make the Harlot case and wasn't superimpressed by it, so maybe we have different points of view. :P

Does anyone know how much time we have left?

People I wouldn't mind lynching today, in order:
1) VSM
2) Mexal
3) Spidey
4) Harlot
5) Kat
6) Whiskeyjack
7) Gert

Hmm. Aren't there 9 of us? Who am I missing (aside from AE, who I definitely do not want lynched).

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[quote name='Whiskeydracul' post='1377424' date='May 30 2008, 14.19']1) You're the last person in the world who can use the 'I would never dare make a case on WJ if I was evil' defense. You've said a million times how you aren't afraid of anybody. I don't believe for a second that you'd ever choose to avoid making a case against me. Some other people....yeah, definitely. They'd steer clear of me. But not you.[/quote]

Eh, that's not really what I'm saying. It just doesn't really further any goals if I was evil. It just brings attention to myself, especially when it's a day 1 case that will hardly ever have anything definitive to use against you :dunno:

I guess if you think I'm protecting Harlot or trying to prove my bravado by going after you then it's a valid line of thought but otherwise, it doesn't make logical sense.

[quote name='WJ']2) You didn't directly defend Harlot. You just distracted from him. And at the same time, you kept your vote on him. You were covered, regardless of how things went. Until I called you on it.[/quote]

Right, but if either of us was lynched, there is 3 pages of me attacking you after you made a case on Harlot. I'm sure someone would have picked up on that in a reread.

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[quote name='AutumnEvenings' post='1377443' date='May 30 2008, 14.29']The Harlot case was going on, yeah. But also, which is what bugs me, [i]three[/i] people (in a game that takes five to lynch) had commented on you two were voting together. His (Mexal's) initial response seemed "off" to me, and then he did nothing but wait for you to show up and begin quarelling with you. It just seems really weird to me; like we said "you guys seem like partners" and his response is "haha, no" followed by "he's the bad one, he's the bad one, he's the bad one!"[/quote]

Wait for him to show up? You have got to be kidding me.

I woke up in the morning, took a shower, made a post, took the bus to work, started working, saw a post by WJ and responded to it. I can't help that WJ and I work at virtually the same times nor can I help that no one else was around all night or morning but WJ, me and Spidey.

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AE, what about VSM makes you so dead-set on her?

I'm out. Would lynch both of Harlot and West mainly for inactivity and caution, but currently [b]WJ[/b] is the most suspicious to me.

[i]If I'm sober enough to mobile-post from a party, see ya before the nightfall.[/i]

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AE....I'm not sure that I see the case against VSM. Yeah, she's kind of quiet and lurky. Seems par for the course for her. She hasn't done anything to make me think she is innocent, but I'd currently rank her behind Mexal, Spider, Harlot, West, and Kat on my 'people to lynch' list.

Is there a particular reason why you want to lynch her, beyond her not participating more when she apparently had the time?

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Because she probably has limited time (this is just a guess based on what I know of her life and of what I know of how much time she's had for mafia in the past few games she's played) and is posting but choosing to not really make any comments (except in [url="http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=28657&view=findpost&p=1377296"]this post[/url], where she agrees with what Gert says and follows her vote onto Harlot).

I also didn't much like her vote on Harlot--it's true that both Mexal and Whiskeyjack had moved off him by that point, leaving only Gert, so it was really just a 2nd vote, but since he seemed (and still seems) the likely lynch, I would have liked better reasoning than "I want him to respond to the case". *shrugs* I'm also not liking her still not commenting on shit depsite me poking at her.

I'm not "dead set" on her though--she's just my number one choice for a lynch right now. :P

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I was responding to Spidey when you (Whiskeyjack) posted, but it sort of applies.

Same reasons though.

But behind Kat? Really?

West just because he hasn't done anything memorable?

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As for the case on me: I got home and posted that I was here, went back and read the game and then posted again. I like early RP in the game, but no one was around except Mex who usually doesn't like it. I don't know what you want to here. So you don't like my summoning vote on Spidey? It's not your style? Fine, but it's hardly evidence of evil.

Sorry I haven't been around today. I was out from work yesterday and had a lot to catch up on. To paraphrase WJ, Court hearings and filing deadlines are more important than mafia.

I still don't find anything particularly evil about WJ and Mex butting heads. I think WJ makes a good point about Kat's votes. I would vote for West as a D1 low-flyer, a D1 position that I'm not really in a position to critricize this game.

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It is day 1.

9 players remain: AutumnEvenings, Gertrude, Harlot, Kat, Mexal, Ser Spider, VerySmallMonster, West, Whiskeyjack.

5 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

2 votes for Harlot (Gertrude, VerySmallMonster)
2 votes for Whiskeyjack (Mexal, Ser Spider)
1 vote for Mexal (Whiskeyjack)
1 vote for Ser Spider (Kat)
1 vote for VerySmallMonster (AutumnEvenings)

2 players have not voted: Harlot, West.

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