World of Warcrack

[Relic]

[quote name='RaceBannon42' post='1381486' date='Jun 3 2008, 09.58']I'd much rather be melee on VR than Ranged. Eating a pounding is easier than dodging Orbs.[/quote]


Stick a resto sham in melee groups on that fight and you have nothing to worry bout. Just dps his balls off. Fucking try being a holy pally for that boss. it's aids.

[RaceBannon42]

[quote name='Relic' post='1381492' date='Jun 3 2008, 09.01']Stick a resto sham in melee groups on that fight and you have nothing to worry bout. Just dps his balls off. Fucking try being a holy pally for that boss. it's aids.[/quote]
If you have enough healing the only challenge for melee is not pulling threat. Our first few times there I spent half my time chain healing to try and keep our group up, but yeah once we stuck a healer in there with us it was caek.

[Stego]

Phelan.... dude.... your melee runs out? You know that draws orbs on the melee, right? You're wiping your raid to try to stay alive. :D Rogues are supposed to die. Deal with it.

Seriously...bosskillers.com.

This game is very melee friendly if melee is smart. It requires more effort than it used to, and sometimes you can't sit still and work under ideal conditions -- but what fun is that?

[PhelanArcetus]

I don't know what our melee does on VR. I think some of them try to dodge pounding if we're short on healers. I'm just staring at two things; Omen (not that it does much good all us tanks aren't on the same version), and the pounding cooldown to zerk rage it. We're probably not doing VR ever again, anyway. Hell, I'm thinking I won't bother going to raid tonight; I'm not much interested in doing the farm status night where nothing I want drops, especially as I'm not even making the progression night.

Most of the content I actually do ends up being not so good for me as melee. And I don't think I've ever done Maiden without at least 3 melee dps. Mostly warriors and rogues. Somehow I tend to be the one who eats the end of the chain and takes 8-9k, of course.

Curator with lots of melee is great; we group up, circle of healing and chain heal (on the ... no, I've only had a resto shaman in Kara twice ever) spam, and dps Curator between flares. Curator as the one melee dps... I gave up partway to the first evocate and started ignoring flares. Nobody yelled at me; I was running in circles and hardly hitting flares, let alone Curator himself.

Unfortunately, last time I tanked him, Recklessness was on cooldown, and I forgot to trinket. So I was lucky to crit a shield slam, and it only made 7.3k in my silly block value gear.

Comments made while in a generally frustrated mood will be frustrated. Missing that raid, missing sleep, and having all sorts of uninteresting work that I'm poorly motivated to do produces general frustration.

[Stego]

Phelan, sounds to me like you need to find a new raid. But here's a couple things:

-Stop doing Kara. It's been over a year now. You can let it go. :D

-EVERYONE should stand on top the tank during curator. EVERYONE. No running after flares = win.

-People who don't got to raids because there's not any gear they want from a certain place make me cry.

[Arataniello]

[quote name='Stego' post='1381736' date='Jun 3 2008, 13.01']-EVERYONE should stand on top the tank during curator. EVERYONE. No running after flares = win.[/quote]

Stego, could you explain that to me? As someone who runs around after flares (and loathing it) I would be interested in hearing of a better way to deal with the Curator.

Aratan

[BlueRose]

[quote name='Aratan' post='1381770' date='Jun 3 2008, 09.17']Stego, could you explain that to me? As someone who runs around after flares (and loathing it) I would be interested in hearing of a better way to deal with the Curator.[/quote]

We all stand on the tank too, or just behind him. I'm not sure there's much more to it than just ignoring the chain lightning or whatever it is and DPSing the flares down as fast as possible.

[Stego]

Mark up your tank, and stand on him. DPS the flares. It's remarkably easy. The tank can thunderclap/swipe/consecrate and be one of the people getting beaten on.

Hunters don't like this strategy, but who cares what hunters like? :P

[Rhom]

Our rogues put on some Arcance Resist gear on Void Reaver... not a lot, but some (around 110 IIRC). It really helped them live through some poundings.

If you insist on having melee run in and out, it is best to designate a "corridor" behind VR where they melee is to run out. The ranged stay out of that are and don't have to worry about the flare (or whatever its called).

[PhelanArcetus]

I don't care what hunters like.

Let's see.

Stop doing Karazhan? No. It's the [i]only[/i] way I'm going to upgrade my rogue's gear aside from going through all of T4 and most of T5 for nothing. Heroics? I'd rather run Kara. I tanked it this weekend because of who was available and to see how big a shield slam crit I could get on evocates. Kara is badges. 22 badges for 4 hours on a bad day, vs. no badges for who knows how long? I'll take a Kara a week.

When I have any say in Curator strategy, everyone except hunters is right there behind him. Hunters are a couple of yards further back, just far enough to shoot and no further. Other people, who I don't get to boss around, sometimes have so much ranged that they spread out all over. My original group had a mage, a hunter, and sometimes a warlock. All the rest of the dps was melee. This group sometimes only had tanks in melee at all. So they picked an entirely different strategy. Unfortunately, they never chose to adapt it to different group makeups.

Explain to me why I should bother going to SSC, which has nothing for me and I am bored sick of. Especially when I have not been able to go to the other raid night, have little incentive to 25-man at all, and was already considering taking a break. Potentially a permanent break; it's also worthless to be the third prot warrior in Hyjal, and incentive is reduced when you know you can't possibly get anything until at least one other person has it. That's right, the raid leader/MT has first dibs on any tanking item. The second tank might have automatic second dibs as well, I'm not sure on that.

Yeah, I'm not attending tonight. I'll take that break I was considering anyway. The question is now whether I post, as I historically have, that I'm not going to make it tonight, or just not post on the signup thread.

[Tobin]

Last time we tried to group up on the tank for Curator - the spell pushback was so horrible that it caused more issues than it solved.

The only melee we have normally are the two tanks - 1 hunter and the rest casters.
The OT has to chase around like a headless chicken, but I end up spinning in place where I've dropped my totems in the center of the hall.

Our Frost mage (who has recently changed to Arcane and is doing even [i]more[/i] obscene damage), spriest, and hubby's warlock break off at the start of evocation to pound Curator while the hunter, OT, and I finish off the last flare before switching over.

Having all ranged also helps on Prince - we cluster around hubby's warlock at max range and use him as a spotter for falling infernals. When the debuff hits, we just step back three feet and are good to go.

At chess, I'm always a pawn, :unsure: . I do my best to skitter across the board as fast as I can though.
First time we were in there one of our guys lined up behind an Alliance piece. He laughed and quickly switched sides when we started yelling: "TRAITOR!"

[Lyanna Stark]

Ignoring the hunters seems silly, plus if everyone's eating flare damage the healers will be busy. And push back.

It's not hard to chase the flares anyway. I don't see why people make a fuss about it.

I'm sure standing on the tank is really good if you over gear the place, but not if you are struggling, since the healers and caster DPS will have a harder time.

I like it as an idiot and listen to the raid leader check anyway. If people can't resist the temptation to DPS the Curator even tho I tell them to DPS the flare, they get a good shouting at and learn to say "how high?" when I say "jump", which really helps.

I just wish I could take our raid alliance guild into KZ and teach them the same reflexes :/ we would not have any issues at all in 25-mans if this was the case.

[Stego]

[quote name='PhelanArcetus' post='1381918' date='Jun 3 2008, 13.40']Explain to me why I should bother going to SSC, which has nothing for me and I am bored sick of. Especially when I have not been able to go to the other raid night, have little incentive to 25-man at all, and was already considering taking a break. Potentially a permanent break; it's also worthless to be the third prot warrior in Hyjal, and incentive is reduced when you know you can't possibly get anything until at least one other person has it. That's right, the raid leader/MT has first dibs on any tanking item. The second tank might have automatic second dibs as well, I'm not sure on that.

Yeah, I'm not attending tonight. I'll take that break I was considering anyway. The question is now whether I post, as I historically have, that I'm not going to make it tonight, or just not post on the signup thread.[/quote]


-You should go to SSC for the good of the raid you are a member of. If you're there for gear and not to actually play the game and improve your guild's chances of progression, then you're raiding for the wrong reasons, and your raid would probably be better off if you quit.

-I've run Hyjal with 3 prot warriors and at no time were any of the tanks useless. Particularly on spell reflect/abomination pulls, multiple tanks keep the Pally up.

-Why do you need to get gear first? Gear is not a status symbol. Gear is a tool toward an end. Your main tank SHOULD get priority on every single item. Why should gear EVER go to the guy who can't even show up 2 nights a week? It's a waste of everyone's effort, particularly if said tank is missing progression runs. But if you HAVE to miss that other night, then be a good guildie while you're there. And honestly, be happy your break wasn't enforced on you instead of it being your own decision.

I've been third Prot warrior/fifth tank in raids. I've been a backup. I've watched other tanks get the cool stuff before I did. But you know what? It was better for the raid that they did. Sure, I wanted a pretty shield and some shiny loots, but I got that stuff eventually. It was about succeeding.

I think I'm starting to get this through my raid's heads, but it seems like no ones ever told you: [b]Raiding is about the killing, not the looting.
[/b]

And you know what I got out of it? Knowledge and experience. Third prot warrior with few, rare drops turned into raid leader who is 5/9 BT having cleared every boss in BC up to that point, in gear I never bothered dreaming about back then, because I LEARNED. I learned how good raiders operated. I learned everything I could possibly get from experienced raiders who were kind enough to bring me along even though they really didn't need 3 prot warriors. But I was dependable. And I improved my craft. And I got drops third or never, but you know what? I was still always a good enough tank. And we killed shit. And we had a fuckton of fun.

If that's not why you raid or what you're getting from raiding and if your first priority is gear for the sake of gear and "improving your character," then the break is probably a good thing.

[Relic]

curator = stand right behind tank.


stego, are you guys still farming t5 content or just hyjal and BT?

[Stego]

Ehh, we need to farm T5 a bit, but we've been focusing on progression. We'll be farming more when we get stuck waiting for Hearts of Darkness.

[Third Knight on the Left]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1381981' date='Jun 3 2008, 13.15']Our Frost mage (who has recently changed to Arcane and is doing even [i]more[/i] obscene damage),[/quote]


I know its awesome isn't it! :lol:

[Third Knight on the Left]

[quote name='Stego' post='1382058' date='Jun 3 2008, 14.01']-You should go to SSC for the good of the raid you are a member of. If you're there for gear and not to actually play the game and improve your guild's chances of progression, then you're raiding for the wrong reasons, and your raid would probably be better off if you quit.

-I've run Hyjal with 3 prot warriors and at no time were any of the tanks useless. Particularly on spell reflect/abomination pulls, multiple tanks keep the Pally up.

-Why do you need to get gear first? Gear is not a status symbol. Gear is a tool toward an end. Your main tank SHOULD get priority on every single item. Why should gear EVER go to the guy who can't even show up 2 nights a week? It's a waste of everyone's effort, particularly if said tank is missing progression runs. But if you HAVE to miss that other night, then be a good guildie while you're there. And honestly, be happy your break wasn't enforced on you instead of it being your own decision.

I've been third Prot warrior/fifth tank in raids. I've been a backup. I've watched other tanks get the cool stuff before I did. But you know what? It was better for the raid that they did. Sure, I wanted a pretty shield and some shiny loots, but I got that stuff eventually. It was about succeeding.

I think I'm starting to get this through my raid's heads, but it seems like no ones ever told you: [b]Raiding is about the killing, not the looting.
[/b]

And you know what I got out of it? Knowledge and experience. Third prot warrior with few, rare drops turned into raid leader who is 5/9 BT having cleared every boss in BC up to that point, in gear I never bothered dreaming about back then, because I LEARNED. I learned how good raiders operated. I learned everything I could possibly get from experienced raiders who were kind enough to bring me along even though they really didn't need 3 prot warriors. But I was dependable. And I improved my craft. And I got drops third or never, but you know what? I was still always a good enough tank. And we killed shit. And we had a fuckton of fun.

If that's not why you raid or what you're getting from raiding and if your first priority is gear for the sake of gear and "improving your character," then the break is probably a good thing.[/quote]
.

I agree with this sentiment, we dropped Mags for the first time last week. We tried it like 5 times and just kept messing it up, then we agreed to try it once more. It went down like a symphony and we downed him with 25 still standing, I shouted for joy in vent when that happend it was awesome, especially after what felt like a down night.

BTW there are are 0 upgrades for me on Magtheridon. :)

Void Reaver, next week :D :D

[Lyanna Stark]

Grats Third Knight! :)

[PhelanArcetus]

Now that I feel I can respond somewhat without getting emotional, I'll make a few comments. They will be brief, as I'm prepping for a demo in a half hour or so.

As I have mentioned a few times, we're casual, not progression. I believe that if BT/Hyjal attunement had not been removed, there is no way in hell we would get there before we all stopped raiding to level in WotLK. And we wouldn't be flipping out over it.

Progress from SSC? Nope. Everything we do there is on farm; we're not even going to try Vashj until we have a bunch of T6 gear. And last week, when I was there, and the raid leader was sick, and the #2 tank was getting drunker and drunker as she tanked it (and she does that most raid nights, I should note), I think we got one primary spec item (my T5 gloves), and one offspec item that we didn't shard. As a matter of fact, the leadership was already talking about stopping T5 content, so as to not waste a whole night on maybe getting something for one person.

And honestly, one of the reasons I'm burned out on it is the feel that the leadership doesn't respect the group. I agree with gearing up the tank who is tanking most as a general policy. I don't agree when that policy appears out of nowhere after months and months of raiding without it, and no indication that it has ever been discussed with the group (we're casual, remember, that also tends to indicate somewhat more democratic attitudes) or formally announced before an item the MT wants drops. They once officially posted the priority list for nether vortices. It included vortices for alts after all raid mains were done. Somewhere along the way, it was decided, silently, that stacking them in the raid bank was better. #3 tank means what? It means that I will never, ever, tank anything unless there are three things not being crowd controlled. There's no rotation of tanking/dpsing. Sometimes it means that the main tank will pull something I'm tanking off of me for no apparent reason. That's happened too many time for it to be coincidence. Hell, when the raid switched from an 8pm start to a 7pm start... the most discussion on that was a quick, over Vent "Send me a tell if you cannot show up at 7".

And frankly, showing up at 7 is just too much stress, added effort, and added cost; yes, it costs me money to be home and ready to raid at 7; to do something I don't enjoy. Responsibility is a two-way street, and I no longer feel that I have a responsibility to attend. I pay to play the game because I want to have fun. If I am not having fun in the 25-man content I do and not anticipating fun in the upcoming 25-man content, then going to those raids is a waste of my money.

Now, I have to get this demo ready.

[Stego]

Dude, find a new guild. There are thousands that want tanks.

[url="http://www.lookingforguild.net/"]http://www.lookingforguild.net/[/url]


Have fun or change it up. There's no reason for you to be miserable.