Mafia 54: Return of the Cannibal

[House Velaryon]

[quote name='House Reyne' post='1424439' date='Jul 2 2008, 08.44']I'd also like people to understand the difference between cases and bananas. Brax has made several bananas, and Fell has made a case.[/quote]What's the point of noting this? Did anybody confused these two things already?

[House Payne]

[quote name='House Templeton' post='1424435' date='Jul 2 2008, 09.43']Please let me have my own playstyle, ser Bull?[/quote]
Cool. I was simply pointing out a more innocentish way of playing. I suspect you because of the way you've done it.

[House Velaryon]

[quote name='House Reyne' post='1424441' date='Jul 2 2008, 08.49']Um, with this little content in the game so far, do you really really find Jordayne being 5th or 6th (or something like that, anyway) on that list so essential? :huh:[/quote]For this moment, no. But later in the game, it might be essential to know how Overton ordered their suspects. You never can tell.

[House Payne]

[quote name='House Templeton' post='1424442' date='Jul 2 2008, 09.50']What's the point of noting this? Did anybody confused these two things already?[/quote]
In addition to being an overpaid quaterback, I'm also a nazi.

And yes, Fell called his case a banana.

It matters not, really.

[House Velaryon]

[quote name='House Reyne' post='1424447' date='Jul 2 2008, 08.51']Cool. I was simply point out a more innocentish way of playing. I suspect you because of the way you've done it.[/quote]You aren't too sublte about noting that you find your own way of playing most innocentish.

[House Ashford]

Okay, first off, 'banana' is a really stupid name for any sort of case. I vote that we immediately stop using it. It's lowering the level of intelligence in our games. I can also predict that it will very soon be used as a way for Overton to defend himself - "it wasn't a serious case, it was just a banana!". :rolleyes:

[quote name='House Overton' post='1424250' date='Jul 2 2008, 06.21']Ok first Whitehill. It is interesting that with him, Egen Fell and myself seem to have found him slightly suspicious, at least relative to everyone else, despite him only making 4 posts none of which have much merit.[/quote]

Glad to see you admit right from the start that you are going after somebody who you view to be an easy target.

[quote name='Overton']Ok ok I hear you say, post number 19 in the thread, how can that be of any significance? Well that's a good point, but this still strikes me as odd. Tyrell, by posting one continuous paragraph has shown that the enter key is not his friend. Maybe Whitehill is suggesting that Tyrell should become friends with the enter key, but this is hardly expressed very clearly. That said, this is clearly a joke post, so we won't infer too much from it.[/quote]

It's obviously a joke, so why even bring it up? If you want to mention that I only had one-liners at the start of the day, then fine - it would be a valid point, if we hadn't just started the game and if most of my posts didn't come during the RP phase. As it stands, I was busy with work, had something to do for most of last night, and then went to sleep. So I didn't have much time to post. Your attempt to try to twist it into some modicum of a point against me by calling it "odd" and saying in your serious voice "the enter key is clearly not Tyrell's friend, so why would Overton suggest otherwise, hmmm!?!?" is inane.

And don't come back and say that you acknowledged my post was a joke. Because that just begs the question, if you knew it was a joke, then why did you point it out as if it was a mark against me? Why did you call it odd and ask a serious question about it? To pad your case by making it longer than it actually was? To subtly introduce the idea that I am "odd" without actually attacking me yet?

[quote name='Overton']Now Costayne has sensibly moved his vote away from me to Jordayne (not that I actually find Jordayne too suspicious yet, just a bit odd) but it is Whitehill who retaliates. Again, we're in joke stage here, so that might not mean much, but to me this post comes across as unnecessary and a little snarky and it's niggling at me somehow. Costayne responds to this post in good humour, but also gives the impression of wondering why exactly he had been voted for, without even a joke explanation.[/quote]

Again, an empty point. Now I'm not only "odd", I'm also "snarky". After this post, I'm sure you'll add "defensive" to the list. Word to the wise - this isn't a defense, it's an attack.

Yes, we were in the joke phase. Yes, I made a joke. Yes, I am a sarcastic person. Yes, you are padding the case again, and once again associating me with a negative sentiment (snarky), without actually making a point against me.

Then you say my 3rd post is fine, and go on to post 4 -

[quote name='Overton']Not an unreasonable question, but this seems to be the sum total of Whitehill's actual contribution (it was a joke, in case you missed my answer :)). And Whitehill still hasn't followed this up with any other questions or comments.[/quote]

So once again, there's nothing that's actually suspicious about my post. Yet somehow it all adds up to a case?

As for not following up my question - it's called sleep. I wasn't going to say more about you until you answered my question, and I wasn't going to respond to your answer until I woke up.

[quote name='Overton']So, in conclusion, Whitehill seems only to post when he finds somthing easy to respond to. All his posts start by quoting someone else, and are usually one liners. This in itself doesn't make Whitehill a baddie, but it means we have to watch him I think.[/quote]

You go through all of that just to make the conclusion that I've only posted one-liners. Why bother with analysis of each point? Like I said before - to me, it looks as if you are just taking the opportunity to associate me with the negative qualities "odd" and "snarky".

[b]Overton[/b] is suspicious. Both for the way he tries to stretch this into a case (and yes, he's serious about it, because he listed me 2nd on his suspect list) and the other points I raised in my previous post.

I've got to leave for an hour. When I get back I'll take a closer look at the rest of the players.

[House Velaryon]

[quote name='House Reyne' post='1424453' date='Jul 2 2008, 08.53']In addition to being an overpaid quaterback, I'm also a nazi.[/quote]You are a troll.
In fact, I am glad that you chose me as main target for your playstyle, because you could ruin some other player's fun.
Usually, baddies don't go so much agressive because of probable ending in modkill. Still, you might know I am not easily offended. There is still possibility of Mex defence.

[House Wythers]

I see that Templeton is a very smart person, as he seems to be the only person not confused by bananas and cases. :P I was using Banana/Apple as if it was an evaluation or summary, not as a case. Our fruity terms are better left in last game to avoid confusion, it would seem.

[House Velaryon]

Dead time again?
It's rather hard to contribute when there is nobody around.

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Templeton' post='1424542' date='Jul 2 2008, 10.52']Dead time again?
It's rather hard to contribute when there is nobody around.[/quote]

I'm here. :)

Some things take time.


Next on the list is Grandison. He has 12 posts and no content at all:
1) RP comment, joke vote on Overton
2) Comments that 4 minutes have passed and no one has replied
3) Does not vote for Myatt for voting him, although tempted
4) OCC comment to mods
5) OCC comment to Overton
6) Doesn’t know the why of the anon rule
7) Door # 2 comment
8) Admits to padding post count (as if this wasn’t painfully obvious by now)
9) Is glad Jordayne doesn’t want to kill him
10) Maths
11) Explains what he meant about Jordayne, disses the greatest language ever
12) Says goodnight

So that is the summary, here is the case:
1) he has posted to a point where he is a high-middle poster (top poster currently only has 24)
2) he has not made any definite stands (or real votes, just his first post vote)
3) tries to be helpful with the maths
4) has not contributed to the game at all.

If you look at his numbers it would seem he has had a bit to say when this is far from the truth. He has tried to blend in and look useful while staying in the middle of the pack, being completely nonconfrontational. He seems to fit the pattern of a mafia more than anyone else, so far.

[b]Grandison[/b] is now my top suspect.

[House Westerling]

I'm around, but I can't stay. I have to go to a driving lesson.

I have been re-reading, and I have a mini "Egen is the SK!" case I want to make, but it will have to wait until later this evening.

I'm leaving my vote on Myatt for the time being, however.

[House Velaryon]

Braxy, I'll wait until you will reread somebody without adding him to your suspect list.

[House Ashford]

[quote name='House Brax' post='1424484' date='Jul 2 2008, 09.12']I see that Templeton is a very smart person, as he seems to be the only person not confused by bananas and cases. :P I was using Banana/Apple as if it was an evaluation or summary, not as a case. Our fruity terms are better left in last game to avoid confusion, it would seem.[/quote]

Just stop using the term 'banana' or 'apple' or whatever. It's stupid. What is it supposed to mean anyway?

Summary? What are you summarizing at this point in the game? Barely anything has been said.

Evaluation? How is that different from a case?

Mini-case? Whats that, a case you don't really believe in? Or just a few small points that don't actually add up to being a case? Why would that even merit a special term? Just say the person is suspicious for those points, and leave it at that.

Reason why I'm objecting to the term is because it seems like a cop-out. You make a point against somebody, people object, and you respond "it wasn't a case, it was just a banana!" As if that means something.

How about this. From now on, you just clearly say if you're making a point against somebody, or a point in favor of them, or if you aren't sure (in which case I'll probably attack you for being middle of the road). Or if you're just re-reading, then label the post "useless re-read" so we are all warned ahead of time.

[House Ashford]

Responding to other things now that I have the time.

[quote name='House Egen' post='1424116' date='Jul 2 2008, 02.33']Right now it's hard to find some players to trust since most are suspicious. I still have Myatt, Costayne and Overton on my trust-list for now.[/quote]

Why do you trust Myatt, Costayne, and Overton (saw that you moved Overton down a notch later, but why did you trust him at this point)?

[House Frey]

I am going to go back and reread. Before doing so, I have not been trying to appease people. I have been sarcastic and since it is not readily known from words on a computer screen, I had to make it obvious. To try and move the game on a little I was also trying to start a little suspicion albeit from sarcasm.

now rereading :read:

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Templeton' post='1424570' date='Jul 2 2008, 11.07']Braxy, I'll wait until you will reread somebody without adding him to your suspect list.[/quote]

It seems everyone is a bit suspicious :P

I can't help my lack of trust in this game.

I am sure things will change as we get more info. It's hard on day one, but we do the best we can.

[House Velaryon]

[quote name='House Brax' post='1424610' date='Jul 2 2008, 10.27']It seems everyone is a bit suspicious :P[/quote]Ok. :)
I suppose you were going by post count, from down to upper - how you managed to miss Myatt?

[Lady Gaga]

Ok I'm back and I'll try to respond to what'e been said.

[quote name='House Templeton' post='1424340' date='Jul 2 2008, 14.54']why your list contains two Jordaynes?[/quote]
[quote name='House Templeton' post='1424407' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.30']So it doesn't worth to be noticed? Don't you want to know what place Jordayne actually takes in Overton's list?[/quote]


Yeh sorry. I was counting to make sure there are fifteen people in the list, and I didn't realise that I didn't need to include myself (obviously I know I'm innocent). Um, that was a while ago now so I'm not sure which Jordayne is the real one, but probably the higher one should be edited out. I'll do that in a minute. Hope that helps :)


[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424410' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.32']If thats the case, then I'm confused. Why were you so careful and deliberate about casting a vote against him?[/quote]

Yeh it was a poor choice of words I thought that at the time that I should have made it seem more lighthearted. I realise it came across as serious but it wasn't really.

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424410' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.32']First you directly respond to his post -
Then you post to say that 6 people haven't shown up yet (I'll get back to that later, because it's suspicious too).
In my experience, a joke vote doesn't require much thought. Can you offer some further explanation for that particular statement?[/quote]

Yep. oh wait, you want me actually to give you the explanation. :) I was thinking about Grandison's little logic riddle with the statements, not about his or my votes or about the game generally. That clear it up?

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424410' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.32']We're not even 4 hours (or 50 posts) into the game, and you're already wondering where some people are. And then saying it's not a big deal. So why point it out? Looks as if you are just saying something game related, to look as if you are one of the first people to 'get down to business'.[/quote]

Yeh I think you're right. I did just want to say something game related but as it happens, I'm an innocent who just wanted to say something game related. You're right that it isn't a particularly clever post, but you're wrong to say it's suspicious.

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424410' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.32']Overton, meet the middle of the road. Middle of the road, this is Overton. You are suspicious of Myatt, and you agree with certain parts of the case, but you don't want to vote for him because he might be new or it might just be his style. Nice.

Here's a lesson for you, in case you are innocent. 1) If somebody does something suspicious, then 'he might be a new player' is not a good defense. New players can be evil too. And you [i]might[/i] be wrong. Focus on the suspicious acts, not the possible reasons why they may be justified. 2) "That might just be his style" is an even worse defense. You could say that about nearly every imaginable type of suspicious behavior.

In part, this looks as if you are just using poor excuses to justify not voting for Myatt yet...and at the same time leaving your option open to vote for him later. And in part, it looks as if you are trying to subtly defend Myatt, even while you distance from him by calling him suspicious. Either way, it's suspicious.[/quote]

Damn. You know what, I was trying [i]really[/i] hard not to middle-of-the-road mainly because it's pretty tedious to play like that, and it turns out I am still accused of it after all :(. The bottom line is, I do find Myatt suspicious, but even then although I hadn't articulated it yet, I didn't feel Myatt was the most suspicious - so I didn't vote for him. Like I said then, I didn't feel a vote from me to try and dispel accusations of middle-of-the-roading would achieve anything. And yeh, in a way I was trying to defend Myatt, because i thought other people were more likely to be baddies, so I would rather they were lynched than Myatt.

yeh everything you say is right more or less, but its pointless because it doesn't mean that I am a baddie or even make me more liekly to be one.

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424461' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.57']Okay, first off, 'banana' is a really stupid name for any sort of case. I vote that we immediately stop using it. It's lowering the level of intelligence in our games. I can also predict that it will very soon be used as a way for Overton to defend himself - "it wasn't a serious case, it was just a banana!". :rolleyes:[/quote]

Ok. At that point in time, from gut instinct more or less I had you and Myatt and Harte on about the same suspicion level. I was asked to assemble some sort of case for you and harte, and after doing that, I decided Harte was the most suspicious (although I think I had already thought this so maybe I was just justifying myself). Anyway, since I was asked, I did assemble some sort of case, although as was obvious at the time, I myself wasn't convinced enough by it to vote for you. It was a serious case...but it didn't turn out to be as convincing as the one for Harte. And since my list you've probably become less suspicious to me so we'll leave that list in the past where it belongs.

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424461' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.57']Glad to see you admit right from the start that you are going after somebody who you view to be an easy target.[/quote]

That wasn't my intention. What I intended was to insinuate merely that because 3 of us had thought you suspicious, there may be somthing behind that so it's worth taking a look at your posts.

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424461' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.57']It's obviously a joke, so why even bring it up? If you want to mention that I only had one-liners at the start of the day, then fine - it would be a valid point, if we hadn't just started the game and if most of my posts didn't come during the RP phase. As it stands, I was busy with work, had something to do for most of last night, and then went to sleep. So I didn't have much time to post. Your attempt to try to twist it into some modicum of a point against me by calling it "odd" and saying in your serious voice "the enter key is clearly not Tyrell's friend, so why would Overton suggest otherwise, hmmm!?!?" is inane.[/quote]

I genuinely didn't (and don't) really understand your enter key post. So the serious part was asking you what you'd meant, while acknowledging that it is not actually suspicious in and of itself.

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424461' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.57']And don't come back and say that you acknowledged my post was a joke. Because that just begs the question, if you knew it was a joke, then why did you point it out as if it was a mark against me? Why did you call it odd and ask a serious question about it? To pad your case by making it longer than it actually was? To subtly introduce the idea that I am "odd" without actually attacking me yet?[/quote]

I did think it was odd. I thought it was an odd joke. So I said so. Like I said, I was asked for my thoughts on you, because I had said based on gut (which I know is useless but at that time there was precious little else to go on) that I found you suspicious, so I got all your posts and said what I thought about them. No hidden agenda, everything I could think of I put down and at the end of it I found you less suspicious than Harte.

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424461' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.57']Again, an empty point. Now I'm not only "odd", I'm also "snarky". After this post, I'm sure you'll add "defensive" to the list. Word to the wise - this isn't a defense, it's an attack.[/quote]

To be absolutely fair to me, I believe I said 'a little snarky' and I did go to pains to make sure I put that qualifier in. And this is a peculiar kind of attack, seeming to consist solely of a rebuttal of my case against you, which you can hardly claim I have pressed over the course of the game.

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424461' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.57']Yes, we were in the joke phase. Yes, I made a joke. Yes, I am a sarcastic person. Yes, you are padding the case again, and once again associating me with a negative sentiment (snarky), without actually making a point against me.[/quote]

I was writing down everything I could think of about you. that may make me longwinded, but not evil.

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424461' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.57']So once again, there's nothing that's actually suspicious about my post. Yet somehow it all adds up to a case?[/quote]

Look, if I had my vote on you, this would be a good point. But I don't, and I did say earlier that I think you have become less suspicious, so this isn't saying very much. As I recall, mine was the second semi-serious case (maybe SSC instead of banana?) of the game -what do you expect?

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424461' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.57']As for not following up my question - it's called sleep. I wasn't going to say more about you until you answered my question, and I wasn't going to respond to your answer until I woke up.[/quote]

Sleep is for the weak! :)

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424461' date='Jul 2 2008, 15.57']You go through all of that just to make the conclusion that I've only posted one-liners. Why bother with analysis of each point? Like I said before - to me, it looks as if you are just taking the opportunity to associate me with the negative qualities "odd" and "snarky".

[b]Overton[/b] is suspicious. Both for the way he tries to stretch this into a case (and yes, he's serious about it, because he listed me 2nd on his suspect list) and the other points I raised in my previous post.

I've got to leave for an hour. When I get back I'll take a closer look at the rest of the players.[/quote]

Yes, at the time I wrote my list, that case was enough to put you second on my list. That was only 3-4 hours ago, but enough has changed for me to reconsider my opinion about you. Do take a look at the other players - some of them are mafia and one's a cannibal, and we need your help to root them out.

Also, I apologise for responding to every one of Whitehill's points, but I do so love to be thorough :)

[House Tyrell]

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424593' date='Jul 2 2008, 17.19']Responding to other things now that I have the time.



Why do you trust Myatt, Costayne, and Overton (saw that you moved Overton down a notch later, but why did you trust him at this point)?[/quote]

Hmmmh, I swear I explained every of my actions so far.


Myatt was on the list because he was merely the only one who tried to stir discussion in the beginning. He did not follow that promisning beginning though.

Costayne was on the list, because the overall impression that I got from him was better than the rest of the players (which was not too hard at that time).

Overton was on the list because he reacted lightheartedly to the votes that were piling on him. Sure, these were only joke votes, but FM often tend to get nervous when a mob forms on them, knowing that making a mistake might add them the next couple of votes.

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Whitehill' post='1424574' date='Jul 2 2008, 11.11']Just stop using the term 'banana' or 'apple' or whatever. It's stupid. What is it supposed to mean anyway?

Summary? What are you summarizing at this point in the game? Barely anything has been said.

Evaluation? How is that different from a case?

Mini-case? Whats that, a case you don't really believe in? Or just a few small points that don't actually add up to being a case? Why would that even merit a special term? Just say the person is suspicious for those points, and leave it at that.

Reason why I'm objecting to the term is because it seems like a cop-out. You make a point against somebody, people object, and you respond "it wasn't a case, it was just a banana!" As if that means something.

How about this. From now on, you just clearly say if you're making a point against somebody, or a point in favor of them, or if you aren't sure (in which case I'll probably attack you for being middle of the road). Or if you're just re-reading, then label the post "useless re-read" so we are all warned ahead of time.[/quote]

didn't I say that? I mean you even quoted me. :P

an evaluation is not a case...it is an opinion of the person. And why not do it on day one. Sure as hell beats a random vote.