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A Case for Executing Tuecer

Barring some ground-breaking case (based on man-boy love and Aphrodites's exquisite bosom,) executing anyone at this point is probably going to be a blind decision. If Teucer is going to be mod-killed anyway, killing him by royal decree might not be a bad choice. If he is FM (and he has just as good a chance as any) he can't be replaced. If he is innocent, chances are an innocent was going to get lynched anyway. However, we don't know if he plans on showing up closer to the end of day and actually contribute.

It's as good a choice as the symp clue-ee, the symp clue-er, or Big A.

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[quote name='Philoctetes' post='1448463' date='Jul 21 2008, 01.46']A Case for Executing Tuecer

Barring some ground-breaking case (based on man-boy love and Aphrodites's exquisite bosom,) executing anyone at this point is probably going to be a blind decision. If Teucer is going to be mod-killed anyway, killing him by royal decree might not be a bad choice. If he is FM (and he has just as good a chance as any) he can't be replaced. If he is innocent, chances are an innocent was going to get lynched anyway. However, we don't know if he plans on showing up closer to the end of day and actually contribute.

It's as good a choice as the symp clue-ee, the symp clue-er, or Big A.[/quote]

Why can't FMs be replaced?

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Hey, loyal subjects, if you're going to call people out for leaving symp clues could you please QUOTE THE POSTS IN QUESTION. Maybe you don't have to use quotes to convince other people to vote, but Christ on a cracker, I like evidence, and I am King today. That means you, Phil. :tantrum:

In fact, explanations with votes are generally a Good Thing.

Edit: And with that I'm going to bed, but fear not; the end of Day 1 is at a most convenient time for me and I shall certainly be back to make a decision and discuss things with you fellows further.

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Going back to comment for just a second

[quote name='Idomeneus' post='1448437' date='Jul 20 2008, 23.22']But voting based solely on imaginary symp-clues? That seems counter-productive to say the least. We have a CF. That doesn't give us something to go back on?[/quote]Voting for [i]any[/i] reason shows relationships (good or bad) that can give us information to use later on in the game... in addition to the CF.

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My liege,

[quote name='Menelaus' post='1447814' date='Jul 20 2008, 13.17']And I predict Achillies will die before the end of the war, unless he learns to wear armoured Booties.

*tosses Steal Plate shoes to Achie*[/quote]

[quote name='Philoctetes' post='1447817' date='Jul 20 2008, 13.20']Already a symp clue Mene (or should that be Meanie?) Offering protection to your FM master Achilleus?[/quote]

My appologies for not anticipating your need for these posts on another page.

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I think you're trying a little bit too hard with the whole symp clue, Phil. It was the third post in the game, and Menelaus hasn't been seen since. This makes me think it was a case of quick and poorly worded role play. But you took hold of that tiny thread just one post later and you've been trying to make quite the tapestry out of it.

Now your "case for executing Tuecer" shows that maybe you're just bloodthirsty. I do agree that if Tuecer doesn't show up, it would be wisest for our noble King to execute him. But you sure do seem eager for it to happen.

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[quote name='Patroclus' post='1448472' date='Jul 20 2008, 23.54']Why can't FMs be replaced?[/quote]
Everyone can be replaced (if modkilled before start of Day 2.) If he is an FM we'd rather have him lynched than replaced.

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[quote name='Agamemnon' post='1448483' date='Jul 20 2008, 23.02']I think you're trying a little bit too hard with the whole symp clue, Phil. It was the third post in the game, and Menelaus hasn't been seen since. This makes me think it was a case of quick and poorly worded role play. But you took hold of that tiny thread just one post later and you've been trying to make quite the tapestry out of it.[/quote]


I agree Ag. I just re-read the first part of the thread looking for said "symp clue" and realized Phil's been stuck on that since the very beginning. I'm wary of anyone who agreed with Phil on the Meneleus/Achilles thing, which brings me to Ajax the Lesser. Granted, my whole 'I'm going to execute an Ajax' thing from before was a joke, but really...watch how in this post, he both says it's possible for that to be a symp clue, or not at all. And he gives no explanation for his other vote, just for kicks. :|


[quote name='Ajax the Lesser' post='1448407' date='Jul 20 2008, 21.58']The armored boot joke by Menelaus to Achilles looks like a symp clue, except I don't think I've ever actually seen a symp give one, so I'm pretty doubtful.

Otherwise, there's nothing here that really seems exciting. Except for Aphrodite.

Right now, [u]Big Ajax[/u] :thumbsdown: is about the best I'm expecting to see for a suspect today.[/quote]

...tell me what you think about this, because it's awfully waffly a statement there.

(For the record, there's at least half a dozen posts in the first 50 that could be construed as symp clues; I'm wondering why Phil is stuck on that one in particular instead of one of the other posts which make reference to another player. Especially since I thought it was a fairly obvious reference to Greek mythology and the Achilles heel, and I barely know anything about myths and legends....)

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Achilleus- Symp clue from Menelaus. Might be a FM.

Agamemnon- 3 posts so far, none of them substancial. Flying under the radar.

Ajax the Great- Possibly intentionally confusing votes to sow chaos. Would be nice to eliminate an Ajax.

Ajax the Lesser- Hasn't contributed, but eager to vote. Would be nice to eliminate an Ajax.

Diomedes- Clearly has way too much power early in the game. Seems to want everyone to do his work for him. (forgive me sire)

Idomeneus- Posts mindless dribble. Wants to avoid day 1 voting. Possible FM behavior, trying to eliminate any productiveness from Day 1.

Menelaus- Left a symp clue to Achilleus, and then vanished. Might be symp.

Neoptolemus- Roleplays a bit, then vanishes as soon as discussion turns serious. Wants to avoid real discussion.

Odysseus- Says first to make serious comment is evil, then makes serious comment. Case closed.

Patroclus- Wants king to kill based on activity. Might be scum trying to avoid real discussion.

Philoctetes- Pointed out a like-false symp clue. Willing to lynch based on very slim evidence.

Teucer- Not present. May not show up. Might as well kill before Zeus does.



Well there ya go. Those are my day 1 cases for you all. "Oh, what's that you say? Bullshit? Yes, they are all complete bullshit."

Are any of these [i]really[/i] case worthy? [i]Nobody[/i] deserves to die based on this evidence. So we wait around until we kill someone, probably for a reason like making a weak case and being blood-thirsty, when THERE ISN'T A REAL CASE TO BE MADE.

Sire- I leave it in your hands.

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Oh look, while I was typing my post, Phil got in trouble for being bloodthirsty and making a weak case. :lol:

*points and laughs at Phil*

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[quote name='Agamemnon' post='1448483' date='Jul 21 2008, 00.02']I think you're trying a little bit too hard with the whole symp clue, Phil. It was the third post in the game, and Menelaus hasn't been seen since. This makes me think it was a case of quick and poorly worded role play. But you took hold of that tiny thread just one post later and you've been trying to make quite the tapestry out of it.

Now your "case for executing Tuecer" shows that maybe you're just bloodthirsty. I do agree that if Tuecer doesn't show up, it would be wisest for our noble King to execute him. But you sure do seem eager for it to happen.[/quote]
Perhaps I am trying to hard, but at least I am trying.

As for being eager to execute Tuecer? I think [i]you[/i] are stretching there. I posted why it might make sense to do so if he was close to the mod-kill (and then explained my post further to a confused Pat.)

And with that I am going to bed.

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Oops, right quick
[quote name='Diomedes' post='1448500' date='Jul 21 2008, 00.09']I agree Ag. I just re-read the first part of the thread looking for said "symp clue" and realized Phil's been stuck on that since the very beginning.[/quote]

Stuck, my liege?

I have questioned Ido on not wanting to vote on Day 1 and gave reason to kill Teucer. I wouldn't call that stuck.

[i]Now [/i]I am going to bed.

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[quote name='Idomeneus' post='1448504' date='Jul 21 2008, 00.14']snip

Well there ya go. Those are my day 1 cases for you all. "Oh, what's that you say? Bullshit? Yes, they are all complete bullshit."

Are any of these [i]really[/i] case worthy? [i]Nobody[/i] deserves to die based on this evidence. So we wait around until we kill someone, [color="#0000FF"]probably for a reason like making a weak case and being blood-thirsty[/color], when THERE ISN'T A REAL CASE TO BE MADE.

Sire- I leave it in your hands.[/quote]

Very smooth Ido!

Good night!

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[quote name='Philoctetes' post='1448519' date='Jul 21 2008, 02.28']Very smooth Ido!

Good night![/quote]

I wasn't confused, your words were being wacky.

And I quote:

[quote]If he is FM (and he has just as good a chance as any) he can't be replaced[/quote]

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[quote name='Idomeneus' post='1448416' date='Jul 21 2008, 00.04']Day 1 is always so depressing.

1. Pretend to have sex
2. Attack the other players for leaving symp clues
3. Defend against other players for leaving symp clues
4. Lynch the person whose least active


I say screw the voting day 1. The FM will just muddle things anyway. I for one won't hold it against the king if he just wants to roll a dice and/or go with a gut feeling[/quote]

[quote name='Philoctetes' post='1448463' date='Jul 21 2008, 00.46']A Case for Executing Tuecer

Barring some ground-breaking case (based on man-boy love and Aphrodites's exquisite bosom,) executing anyone at this point is probably going to be a blind decision. If Teucer is going to be mod-killed anyway, killing him by royal decree might not be a bad choice. If he is FM (and he has just as good a chance as any) he can't be replaced. If he is innocent, chances are an innocent was going to get lynched anyway. However, we don't know if he plans on showing up closer to the end of day and actually contribute.

It's as good a choice as the symp clue-ee, the symp clue-er, or Big A.[/quote]

I'm going to vote for both :thumbsdown: [u]Idomeneus[/u] [i]and[/i] :thumbsdown: [u]Philoctetes[/u] for attempting to cop out of day one. Both of these are extremely bad ideas. Rolling a die to decide who dies (no pun intended... okay, maybe it was), which is known as "Plan D" in mafia jargon, has been reviled as a silly course of action. It's basically a cop out, giving up all attempts to discuss at all on day one and losing the entire day. Then on day two you're back where you started, with no info at all. When I said that voting and lynch-mobs help us catch the bad guys I meant it, and the king rolling dice to decide who to kill completely defeats this purpose. Even stupid cases are better than giving up the day to random chance.

As for the, lets kill the inactive guy plan, it's also a cop out. If he has to be modkilled, he will be when his time runs out (or since we're on day one he might be replaced), but we're much better off trying to actually catch the bad guys looking for suspicious things they say and making accusations (even if they're batty day one accusations) for them to answer. Voting for the guy who isn't going to answer back (and then removing your vote when he eventually appears, because he's not inactive any more of course...) is a cop out and is suspicious.

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* Suddeny there is a storm raging at the horizon (funny that there has not been a horizon before), and out of the storm the sea god appears *
[b]
[color="#00bfff"]I greet you, mortals. Fear Poseidon's trident, for the sea god is giving you a quest. I have waited long enough for Teucer to wake up, but now my patience has left me.

This quest will have no winner, but a looser only. Poseidon thinks that you Greek warriors are too pride. I support your crusade, but if you want to win, you have to be hard as stone and humble like a monk. Now Poseidon is going to test if you are worthy the support of the Olympians.

All those who have been worshipping me are obviously worthy. However, [u]all those who have chosen other gods to worship[/u] are not only fools, but ignorant fools. [u]They[/u] have to fullfill my quest by answering the following three questions:[/color][/b] [b]


[color="#00bfff"]
1) The father of which of you did not get immortality because of brain-eating?


2) The same hero is a relative of Poseidon. Show the connection between the sea god and him. (Poseidon is the father of X, who is the father/mother of Y, who is....)


3) Who will decide the outcome of the 'battle' between Odysseus and Ajax the Great over the armour of Achilles? Why?


Like I said, the looser of this contest is getting a punishment, so you better be good at what you are doing. The looser will be the warrior who has answered the fewest questions. If there is a tie, other criteria will help me to decide the identity of the looser.[/color][/b]

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[quote name='Odysseus' post='1448613' date='Jul 21 2008, 09.28']I'm going to vote for both :thumbsdown: [u]Idomeneus[/u] [i]and[/i] :thumbsdown: [u]Philoctetes[/u] for attempting to cop out of day one. Both of these are extremely bad ideas. Rolling a die to decide who dies (no pun intended... okay, maybe it was), which is known as "Plan D" in mafia jargon, has been reviled as a silly course of action. It's basically a cop out, giving up all attempts to discuss at all on day one and losing the entire day. Then on day two you're back where you started, with no info at all. When I said that voting and lynch-mobs help us catch the bad guys I meant it, and the king rolling dice to decide who to kill completely defeats this purpose. Even stupid cases are better than giving up the day to random chance.[/quote]

Ok, first of all, I said I wouldn't hold it against the king if he wants to roll a die. I did not say I wanted to roll a die. I would prefer discussion just like this, which is nice. See my third point however.

Secondly, by no means have I discouraged discussion. If anything, I feel I have helped move it along.

Thirdly, I disagree with your last point that, "Even stupid cases are better than giving up the day to random chance." On Day 1, I feel that random chance sees the best shot at success. We have [i]nothing[/i] to go on, so we're lynching for trivial reasons. Do you really think a FM is going to be lynched? With a partner and symp protecting him? What we have here are many roleless innocents, 1-man-teams. 1 kingmaker, another 1-man team. And then several killers, possibly with a symp, acting as a team.

The best shot at a sucessful kill day 1 is random chance IMO. Not any other day. Other days, we have results, discussion, and voting patterns to use. But pure, fair, unbiased chance is our best shot against the killers day 1. This wouldn't work in an ordinary game, however seeing as only one person has the power to kill, this presents the ultimate opportunity to toss a die and let chance pick its victim, regardless of partners / protection.

Now I have this feeling this point is going to be argued for a while, and probably held against me. But I will continue to mantain that the opportune day 1 for me, is full of debates / arguments (like these, this is good), followed by the king choosing on his gut feeling if he has one, or, my personal preference, rolling a die. In my opinion, that is the [i]only[/i] way we're finding a killer day 1.

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