Worst mother in Westeros

[Lady Shadow Cat]

I really don't know how much of his personality (if any at all) can or should be attributed to her (and yes, it kind of bothers me that the crimes of the son are automatically laid at the mother's doorstep when for all we know she could have been the perfect mother).

A lot of people are accusing Cersei of being a bad mother because Joff was a shit. Same thing, no? Most of the arguments here are based on theories and assumptions with small snippets of known facts from the books. I don't have ADwD with me atm but I'm pretty sure Roose remembers how Ramsay's mother was always putting ideas in Ramsay's head about being deserving of more (which back then his birth decreed otherwise) etc etc. Not criminal but may have begun the process of what Ramsay became.

I think we need a definition of a good vs. a bad mother. So what it a good mother? To me, a good mother provides all the basic necessities to live ( food, shelter, protection), as well as instilling values, beliefs, and knowledge to your child. Problem is the second one creates some grey area, everyone has different ideas of proper values, beliefs and what knowledge is needed.

i guess what I'm trying to get at is, if someone like Catelyn is on this list, I think Ramsay's mom should at least be examined too.

[Cas Stark]

Catelyn Stark shouldn't be on the list, though. She was a good mother by just about any standard you care to use. We know she loved her children. We know they were raised well and turned into decent people because we have their POVs to prove it.

[Ame]

A lot of people are accusing Cersei of being a bad mother because Joff was a shit. Same thing, no? Most of the arguments here are based on theories and assumptions with small snippets of known facts from the books. I don't have ADwD with me atm but I'm pretty sure Roose remembers how Ramsay's mother was always putting ideas in Ramsay's head about being deserving of more (which back then his birth decreed otherwise) etc etc. Not criminal but may have begun the process of what Ramsay became.

I think we need a definition of a good vs. a bad mother. So what it a good mother? To me, a good mother provides all the basic necessities to live ( food, shelter, protection), as well as instilling values, beliefs, and knowledge to your child. Problem is the second one creates some grey area, everyone has different ideas of proper values, beliefs and what knowledge is needed.

i guess what I'm trying to get at is, if someone like Catelyn is on this list, I think Ramsay's mom should at least be examined too.

Not the same thing; we learned in AFfC that Cersei is willing to sadistically murder many hundreds of women, maim men for a puppet show, that she gives different punishment to nobles and commoners while being harder on commoners, that she is a brutal executioner, and that she is willing to use any means to kill rivals including framing them for adultery.

In power Joffrey is also brutal to those weaker then him. People see a pattern because one is clearly there.

[Winter's Knight]

Not the same thing; we learned in AFfC that Cersei is willing to sadistically murder many hundreds of women, maim men for a puppet show, that she gives different punishment to nobles and commoners while being harder on commoners, that she is a brutal executioner, and that she is willing to use any means to kill rivals including framing them for adultery.

In power Joffrey is also brutal to those weaker then him. People see a pattern because one is clearly there.

Joff's patterns of behaviour are more like his (legal) father's though: the violence towards women, the fascination with hunting, (is it me or does his attack on the cat remind anyone of the disembowelment involved in boar hunting?) and so on.

[Cas Stark]

Joff's patterns of behaviour are more like his (legal) father's though: the violence towards women, the fascination with hunting, (is it me or does his attack on the cat remind anyone of the disembowelment involved in boar hunting?) and so on.

I really don't think that Robert's slapping of Cersei three times, and this is according to her, in more than a decade can be compared to Joff having Sansa beaten repeatedly, stripped in public or all the rest of his sadistic behavior toward almost everyone he encounters who irritates him in the slightest degree.

And no, gutting and killing a cat to see its kittens is not on par with hunting a boar, because, um, the boar can kill you, its a somewhat of an equal contest, whereas the cat has no chance at all.

[Lady Shadow Cat]

Not the same thing; we learned in AFfC that Cersei is willing to sadistically murder many hundreds of women, maim men for a puppet show, that she gives different punishment to nobles and commoners while being harder on commoners, that she is a brutal executioner, and that she is willing to use any means to kill rivals including framing them for adultery.

I think I might be being misunderstood. I'm not saying Cersei isn't a bad person. That much is obvious. On the grounds of being a mother I wouldn't put her as the worst, though she certainly won't get any awards. She loved her children, raised them in a way she thought was correct, made mistakes along the way, many of them bad. Most people learn how to be a parent from drawing on their own experiences. Tywin is hardly father of the year, and her mom died when she was young.

[Sweetgirl205]

Lysa, for sure. Don't really like Catelyn, even though I think people are being a little unfair to Sansa. Yes, Sansa made a serious mistake in who to trust. She learned the hard way what happens when you trust a Lannister. Sansa is growning up with Littlefinger. She will make her parents proud.

Caetlyn gets a vote over Cersie. Although Cersie is pure evil, she loves her kids. Caetlyn left Brant injured and Rikkon was just a baby. She totally went over Robb's head. HER decision for Robb to marry a Frey caused the Red Wedding. Why did she feel she had to leave Winterfell at all? Lysa is crazy/ I guess you can forgive some of her behavior because she's a loon. Cersie spoiled Joffery rotten,but Tommlen and Myrcella seemed to turn out ok.

[Ame]

I think I might be being misunderstood. I'm not saying Cersei isn't a bad person. That much is obvious. On the grounds of being a mother I wouldn't put her as the worst, though she certainly won't get any awards. She loved her children, raised them in a way she thought was correct, made mistakes along the way, many of them bad. Most people learn how to be a parent from drawing on their own experiences. Tywin is hardly father of the year, and her mom died when she was young.

I agree I did misunderstand then.

[Daena the Defiant]

Caetlyn gets a vote over Cersie. Although Cersie is pure evil, she loves her kids. Caetlyn left Brant injured and Rikkon was just a baby. She totally went over Robb's head. HER decision for Robb to marry a Frey caused the Red Wedding. Why did she feel she had to leave Winterfell at all?

To testify against the man who tried to murder her son, perhaps?

[Sweetgirl205]

Apparently Ramsay Bolton's mother was exactally mother of the year material.

[Minsc]

HER decision for Robb to marry a Frey caused the Red Wedding.

No, Robb decision to marry Jeyne caused the Red Wedding her Frey bargain ensured the Robb didn't get killed by Tywin at the beginning of the war.

[cortchuzska]

Cersei; not because of Joffrey. I got very bad vibes about her and Tommen.

Cersei's role model is always her father, in his worst aspects.

[UnbentFury]

Sybell Spicer is definitely on the list. Uses her daughter as a whore to seduce the King in the North who then marries the daughter because of honor. Genuinely love each other, but no, Sybell gives her potions that make her infertile. Knew of the Red Wedding, got her son killed as a consequence and made her daughter an early widow. All this for... Marriages.

Not only that, but if you count the Jeyne-switcheroo as true, she is also willing to have her younger daughter killed.

I really don't know how much of his personality (if any at all) can or should be attributed to her (and yes, it kind of bothers me that the crimes of the son are automatically laid at the mother's doorstep when for all we know she could have been the perfect mother). BTW, the only important person in the development of Ramsay's psychopathy that we know of is Reek, and he was chosen by Roose, though we don't have a confirmation of causation even there.

This. If anything, I have to show a little respect for Ramsay's mother as she actually had the balls to walk up to her rapist--and a known-serial killer at that--and demand he take responsibility for his child. Given that she was a peasant, this was actually a pretty good move, if you consider financial security and all that. Now, if we can probe what life was like for Ramsay before meeting Reek and his father, we'd have a better insight on her mothering skills.

Which brings me to Cersei where I think the opposite is true. While Robert was indeed an absentee father, Cersei in the long run had the most influence on her children since she was the one raising Joff hands-on. She actively encouraged his cruelty, punished Tommen for not displaying the same, and overall, uses her children as extensions of her self and her own narcissistic purposes.

Lysa is a bad mother because she blindly spoils her child. While some coddling is understandable given his condition, what Lysa does goes above and beyond that and leads to outright emotional crippling. The boy is spoiled rotten, and doesn't have a clue how to deal with the real world.

[UnbentFury]

No, Robb decision to marry Jeyne caused the Red Wedding her Frey bargain ensured the Robb didn't get killed by Tywin at the beginning of the war.

People need to stop blaming anyone other than Robb and the Freys over this situation. Catelyn was the one that was like hell no wtf are you doing when she saw Jeyne.