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Anyone who didn't like The Dark Knight is a tool.


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[quote name='Shryke' post='1453428' date='Jul 23 2008, 19.00']At my showing, despite a few younger kids, there wasn't a single sound other then a few screams at:

a) the magic trick
B) the body dressed in a bat suit hitting the window[/quote]


The body hitting the window made me jump - I think there were a few screams in my theater.

We went last night and it was still sold out - (late Wednesday showing, :stunned: )

All the praise for Ledger is well founded - his portrayal was exactly what I would expect the ideal Joker to be: Unpredictable, sinister and sociopathic. The makeup serves as both a disturbing visual and a vehicle for people to underestimate just how diabolically intelligent he really is.

The very definition of Chaotic Evil, Ledger makes the character even more disturbing by his confidence and careless attitude, ("Oh, I killed a bus driver.").
The Joker has nothing to lose, so there is nothing that you can use against him.
There is no reasoning or safe ground with someone like that - the only way to stop them, is for them to die.

I agree that the Joker gave Batman that address on purpose - he knew Batman wouldn't be held up by police proceedures and would just go straight in. The delay of building a cordon and carefully breaching the building would slow Gordon and his team down enough that Dawes would be guaranteed to die. Killing Dent would not net as much satisfaction for the Joker as destroying him utterly in spirit.

I still like Katie as Dawes more - she had a fresher, girl-next-door feel that made you like her even if you specifically didn't find her attractive. MG had sparks of it, but for the most part she struck me as tired, old. :dunno: Flame me all you want - it's true. Maybe it could be argued that after working so long in a courrupted cesspool of a city, she's become jaded and worn out.
For the record - I had guessed that she would be killed before we even walked into the theater. It was the one thing I could think of that would cause such a fundemental character shift for Dent.


I don't think even Gordon liked that speech he gave at the end, you could see the reluctance in his eyes and his hesitation to destroy the bat-symbol. Gary Oldman is a fabulous actor - he totally blends into the character he portrays. It's almost to the point that if you didn't tell someone he was the same guy who played Sirius Black, Mr. Zorg, and Rosencrantz you'd never know it.


In looking back, despite the movie being well orchestrated and fine-tuned, I still think there were gaps in the weave. BB for me had a solid story that progressed forward in a steady pace. TDK felt more like the [url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/hanzschulz/2057519018/"]Birdnest[/url] stadium in China: seperate elements woven together to make a story, but without a real forward movement.

Don't get me wrong - it's still a terrific movie that I would go see again.
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A couple of things I heard or read today:

One. Cant' confirm, but I heard that the whole assault thing with Bale was actually started because his sister asked him for $200,000, and he shouted no, and then they called the police. Anyone read anything more about this?

Two, Harvey Two-Face is a long way from dead. Here's the quote from IGN:

"producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive."

So there! :P
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[quote name='Nadie' post='1454854' date='Jul 24 2008, 14.42']A couple of things I heard or read today:

One. Cant' confirm, but I heard that the whole assault thing with Bale was actually started because his sister asked him for $200,000, and he shouted no, and then they called the police. Anyone read anything more about this?[/quote]

I didn't hear what started it, but apparently:

a) it never got violent (it was just yelling and stuff)
B) it only got bad when his mother started insulting Bale's wife, which he didn't take too kindly too

[quote]Two, Harvey Two-Face is a long way from dead. Here's the quote from IGN:

"producer Emma Thomas told IGN after an early press screening that Dent's last scene was ambiguous enough to suggest that perhaps he was still alive."

So there! :P[/quote]

Except the Nolan interview where he talks about the tragedy at the end of the film, where Batman can't bring himself to kill Joker, but can't help but kill Dent.
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[quote]One. Cant' confirm, but I heard that the whole assault thing with Bale was actually started because his sister asked him for $200,000, and he shouted no, and then they called the police. Anyone read anything more about this?[/quote]

In the UK, you can apparently be arrested for questioning, unlike in America where you have to be charged. Also, verbal assault's a crime.

But yeah, basically it wasn't the physical smackdown that some tabloids made it out to be. It was a screaming match. Some nonrelated person called the police.

Apparently, Bale and his mother don't get along at all because when his mom and dad divorced, he had to pick which one to live with. His mother never entirely forgave him for choosing his dad.
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I'm not so sure - there is a strong foreshadowing of what could happen when we see Gordon come "back from the dead". Hubby argues that it would make sense that they would lock Dent up at Arkham and let people belive in his heroic death. I could see having to tout that added lie being another thing to stick in Gordon's throat.


Nitpick question: if Dent had one hand on the gun and the other flipping a coin - how was he keeping the kid with him? Fear?


MRTs (Misc Random Thoughts):

Do we think Morgan will be back? I'm hopeful that he will withdraw his resignation, but I could hear him saying: "If it isn't one thing, it will be another - there will come a time where you ask something of me I'm not willing to give you. I'd rather walk out now."

There were lots of little silent things that I liked in the movie - a ton of subtext conveyed with looks and manerisms. Too many to list, but Ledger was responsible for a lot of them - should have almost called the movie: [i]The Dark Knight: Joker's Wild[/i]

I geeked a bit over the splat granade gun (nice detail about how to set the detonators).
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[quote name='Tobin' post='1455006' date='Jul 24 2008, 15.54']Nitpick question: if Dent had one hand on the gun and the other flipping a coin - how was he keeping the kid with him? Fear?[/quote]

I thought his arm was around the kid. He had a gun. That should be enough to keep a kid immobile.
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[quote name='Shryke' post='1454916' date='Jul 24 2008, 14.14']Except the Nolan interview where he talks about the tragedy at the end of the film, where Batman can't bring himself to kill Joker, but can't help but kill Dent.[/quote]

But he doesn't explicitly state that Batman can't help but kill Dent. He says:

"Harvey Dent pays the price because he's going to kill an innocent. And it's a conundrum."

That's very different from saying Batman kills him. "Paying the price" in relation to the rest of the quote could easily mean the metaphorical death of Harvey and the birth of Two-Face. Hell, it could mean the loss of half his face and confinement in Arkham. The ambiguity, especially combined with what the producer is also quoted as saying, proves that his fate was deliberately left ambiguous.
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[quote name='Nadie' post='1455048' date='Jul 24 2008, 16.14']But he doesn't explicitly state that Batman can't help but kill Dent. He says:

"Harvey Dent pays the price because he's going to kill an innocent. And it's a conundrum."

That's very different from saying Batman kills him. "Paying the price" in relation to the rest of the quote could easily mean the metaphorical death of Harvey and the birth of Two-Face. Hell, it could mean the loss of half his face and confinement in Arkham. The ambiguity, especially combined with what the producer is also quoted as saying, proves that his fate was deliberately left ambiguous.[/quote]

Except your completely ignoring the context.
[quote][b]And to me the paradox is he can't kill the Joker and he isn't trying to kill Harvey Dent, but of course if you're out here doing this, kind of what Alfred says to him in code, if you want to be out here doing this invariably something is going to go wrong.[/b] And the paradox at the end, the biting part is that he has to save the Joker because he has a chance to, and Harvey Dent pays the price because he's going to kill an innocent. And it's a conundrum.[/quote]

And this is in answer to the question "So, about Batman killing Harvey Dent but not killing the Joker?"
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[quote name='Ouroboros' post='1455073' date='Jul 24 2008, 15.31']Feh, what would Nolan know? He only wrote and directed the thing![/quote]

And what would the producer know? She only produced it!

ETA: I will say that after listening to the interview, nowhere does Nolan state explicitly that Batman killed him. He acknowledges the question, then talks about challenging the assumption that Batman never kills, then goes on to talk about Shryke's quoted paradox. I honestly don't think its a stretch to say that they close out the film and without making it clear that Dent was dead (which the producer confirmed) unless they want to keep the possibility of bringing him back open.
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[quote name='Tobin' post='1455006' date='Jul 24 2008, 09.54']I geeked a bit over the splat granade gun (nice detail about how to set the detonators).[/quote]
I loved that thing, too. Was trying to describe it earlier today and couldn't find the right words. Splat grenade gun works as well as any.


Re. Bale assault charge
That whole thing is retarded, and I was pretty disgusted seeing a bunch of people slamming him in the previous thread when the news first broke, without knowing any facts other than the tabloid-trash headlines.

It's like the whole "Heath got too deep into the Joker character and spiralled into a deep chasm of depression that led to his OD" thing. Just fucking garbage. Even his co-actors said that was rubbish and that anyone who wrote/believed that knew nothing about acting.
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[quote name='BJ Penn' post='1455233' date='Jul 24 2008, 17.36']Re. Bale assault charge
That whole thing is retarded, and I was pretty disgusted seeing a bunch of people slamming him in the previous thread when the news first broke, without knowing any facts other than the tabloid-trash headlines.

It's like the whole "Heath got too deep into the Joker character and spiralled into a deep chasm of depression that led to his OD" thing. Just fucking garbage. Even his co-actors said that was rubbish and that anyone who wrote/believed that knew nothing about acting.[/quote]

:agree:
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[quote name='Simon of Steele' post='1453650' date='Jul 23 2008, 21.44']First off--if Megatron got the cube--we'd be fucked. I know you couldn't see the last battle between Optimus and Megatron because the director of the movie thought it'd be more interesting to watch the military guys fight a Decepticon, but I'm pretty sure Optimus got his ass handed to him. Had Megatron took the cube then Earth would be a new Cybertron and only producing Decepticons. That is scary. Did you see those girls in the car whose steering wheel came to life and turned into a Decepticon and clawed off their faces (presumably)? Those girls were kind of hot. And seriously--yes to Megan Fox--WAAAAAAY over MG. I wish Fox had been in Donnie Darko.

What's the Joker got? Laughter? Shit, Megatron has a whole other transformer (Starscream) who handles the maniacal laughter for him, because he's too busy kicking ass.[/quote]

This is why you are the Kevin Bacon of the board.

[quote name='Nadie' post='1455166' date='Jul 24 2008, 17.10']And what would the producer know? She only produced it![/quote]
Where's Brude when you need him, with a story about 'failing upwards'?
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[quote name='BJ Penn' post='1455233' date='Jul 24 2008, 16.36']It's like the whole "Heath got too deep into the Joker character and spiralled into a deep chasm of depression that led to his OD" thing. Just fucking garbage. Even his co-actors said that was rubbish and that anyone who wrote/believed that knew nothing about acting.[/quote]

I was guilty of that myself with Ledger (actually my conclusion was that we has either an irresponsible stoner or had a deathwish).
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[quote]Latest I"m a Marvel/I'm a DC about TDK
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDxgNjMTPIs[/url][/quote]

Good shit. Loved when Jesus and Santa came down to watch the film.
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I went to the midnight showing on the first night. Now I've done that before with Star Wars and the Matrix and there are always people that dress up, and usually people snicker at them.

But this guy came into the theater in full-on Batman gear, the helmet, the cape, the belt, everything, and he had college and high school chicks all over him asking for their picture with him. He was getting crazy boy band ass, I couldn't believe it. Of course, in a place like Austin it isn't exactly uncool to dress like a superhero.
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Just got back from watching it a few hours ago. Insert obligatory gushing praise here.

This...is not the Joker that did the boner crime spree. And that's a good thing, but, damn, he's creepy.

I just have to wonder if a bit of Harvey's cousin Arthur's luck rubbed off on him. And I thought he was just a yuppie tool when I saw the trailers (yes, I did know better from the old Animated Series). Still, I guess the ending he got here, whether he died or not, was kinda inevitable looking at everything the characters were saying.
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[quote name='Dumas' post='1455547' date='Jul 24 2008, 22.50']Just got back from watching it a few hours ago. Insert obligatory gushing praise here.

This...is not the Joker that did the boner crime spree. And that's a good thing, but, damn, he's creepy.[/quote]

Hey! This Joker could easily trick Batman into his boner!
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