Jump to content

The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part V)


Werthead

Recommended Posts

[quote name='BloodoftheDragon' post='1547995' date='Oct 8 2008, 09.50']...forgive me if I'm wrong, AAR = PTWP, right? I could be wrong, I just realized, lol.[/quote]

While they could end up being the same person, those are two separate prophecies.

The "Prince the was Promised" prophecy seems to be of Valyrian influence, as it was originally written in Valyrian and it was thought to be about Targaryens. (Rhaegar thinks it was about him, then he and Aemon think it must be Rhaegar's son Aegon, then Aemon thinks it's Daenerys. All Targaryen.)

Azor Ahai Reborn is a prophecy from Asshai, from those of the faith of R'hollor, and is about the eventual return of a mighty warrior (or mighty person, to be gender fair) who will lead humanity against the armies of the Great Other.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ok i sure this has been pointed out before and maybe it has been somehow dismissed but in A Storm of Swords on pages 596 to 598 it is stated quite clearly that Johns mother was named Wylla and she was a servant/wet nurse in service to House Dayne of Starfall. Edric Dayne (who goes by Ned...coincidence?) is son to the elder brother of Arthur Dayne and used Wylla as his wet nurse.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That could easily be no more than a lie told by old Ned or an assumption made by yound Ned :).

Also, Jon got along fine with all of his (half) brothers and sisters. Arya and Robb were his favourites, but the children all liked one another. Sansa says she misses him. She calls him her half-brother because she's a very propper lady. She still loves him. The ones that get along the least are Arya and Sansa, but even they are still sisters and love each other. Some families don't get along, but the Starks are not one of those families :).

Catelyn [i]hates[/i] Jon and wishes him dead. Sansa's opinion of him is completely different.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kings Guard, Ned tells King Robert (when Robert insists) that Jon's mother is Wylla. Ned is clearly very uncomfortable with this conversation.

I don't think Wylla actually is Jon's mother because I can't think why Ned wouldn't tell Jon, Catelyn, Rita Skeeter, the ghost of Bran the Builder, and the Others if that were the case. As far as we know, Wylla as Jonmom wouldn't be a threat to anyone. Ned's refusal to name her causes some problems in his marriage, although he and Catelyn do love each other.

Wylla does seem to have been somehow involved during the time of Jon's birth; she was his first wetnurse. She also, years later, nursed Ned Dayne, but he and Jon have never actually met (Jon being several years older).

Wylla does seem, in the series present, to be allowing people to think she's Jon Snow's mother. I think she's the decoy mom.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

the more I thought about it I thought the same thing, that she was a good decoy mom in order to tie up any loose ends, if anyone decided to look too deep they would find Wylla. it makes sence now that I think about it. I dont think we are really going to find out for sure until the next to last or last book
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before I came here, I never really thought about R+L = J at all. I assumed that Wylla was his mother, and Ned was his father. I was just wondering when we'd meet Wylla or if she was dead.

But seeing this idea, it makes a lot more sense, Ned was a very honourable man and was never the type to be unfaithful. Everyone has their moments of weakness but the whole thing didn't really fit. It would have made more sense if R+L is true, and Wylla was just his nurse.

It is a well thought-out theory and I'd be surprised if it wasn't true.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Alinus' post='1552290' date='Oct 11 2008, 09.04']Theory is verry consistent. It also lefts a door open between a marriage of Jon and Daenerys in next parts, between the final battle with The Others.[/quote]

Even if R+L, I find it highly unlikely that Jon and Dany will marry for a variety of reasons, not least of which that he's sworn an oath to take no wife and father no children. Even if he's not Ned Stark's son in body, he's Ned Stark's son in spirit and takes his oaths lethally seriously.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='SlyDragon' post='1552478' date='Oct 12 2008, 01.10']Even if R+L, I find it highly unlikely that Jon and Dany will marry for a variety of reasons, not least of which that he's sworn an oath to take no wife and father no children. Even if he's not Ned Stark's son in body, he's Ned Stark's son in spirit and takes his oaths lethally seriously.[/quote]

He already broken his oath with the wilding woman.
The MAIN goal of its oath is protecting the Human kind agains The Others. All his actions will be made for achiving this goal. Even sleeping with a welding. Why whould the story be different regarding Dany?
The door's still open for such a match.

And Jon is more than Ned Stark. Remember, Ned is dead because he choses not to make any compromises for a greater good. Jon already done this. And... he's still alive !
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Alinus' post='1552878' date='Oct 12 2008, 10.22']He already broken his oath with the wilding woman.
The MAIN goal of its oath is protecting the Human kind agains The Others. All his actions will be made for achiving this goal. Even sleeping with a welding. Why whould the story be different regarding Dany?
The door's still open for such a match.

And Jon is more than Ned Stark. Remember, Ned is dead because he choses not to make any compromises for a greater good. Jon already done this. And... he's still alive ![/quote]

He didn't want to break his oath though, and only slept with Ygritte because Halfhand ordered him to.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Firebll07' post='1552927' date='Oct 12 2008, 15.10']He didn't want to break his oath though, and only slept with Ygritte because Halfhand ordered him to.[/quote]

yes, but he did it for a greater good: survival of the night wach stays before chastity oath. and i am sure u will se in the next parts GRRM will produce: survival of the human kind will stand before survival of the night watch.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

[quote name='Alinus' post='1552930' date='Oct 12 2008, 13.18']yes, but he did it for a greater good: survival of the night wach stays before chastity oath. and i am sure u will se in the next parts GRRM will produce: survival of the human kind will stand before survival of the night watch.[/quote]


Possibly.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Wylla part was discussed many times before. We know that Ned was very uncomfortable with lies so little wonder that he was uncomfortable when he was forced to lie to his friend and his king. Yet if Wylla was Jon’s wet nurse or “milk mother” that wasn’t really a lie and this look consistent with Ned telling to cat that Jon is his blood (not his son) – another walk around lie when to tell truth was impossible.

The main problem Wylla version is the secrecy that Ned made from Jon’s mother name. He knew very well that it actually hurts Jon because Cat was very jealous to Jon’s mother. Ned could tell that Wylla is Jon’s mother at least to his wife because Cat won’t be jealous to servant who is half world away and would never believe that it was more then lust between her and Ned. Yet Ned never did and the only explanation is that it was lie he was unwilling to tell to his wife.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have read some far reaching theories on the subject lately and one of them seems like a POSSIBILITY to me. Which is what if Lyanna is the mother of Jon but Rhaegar wasn't the father. The first time i read this theory it was by someone claiming Dayne was his father and Rhagear being Daynes best friend hid her so she wouldnt disgrace her love and her house. I think someone in this thread thought this too. ALso someone mentioned Ned and Lyanna but this is so ridiculous i wont spend time on it. IM saying what if Lyanna was the mother but it wasnt Rhaegar, Dayne or a Stark as her father. Maybe someone we know or don't but if Lyanna just befriended Rhaegar at Harrenhal after Rheagar discovered she was the Knight and they became good friends and she told him her secret how she has a child and he wants to help her by letting her give birth without Robert knowing in seculision then reappearing without anyones knowledge that he could protect her and such i guess is plausible.

Also many people claim the bed of blood line being childbirth so she had to have Jon at that point but a point many overlook is one could be giving birth and both parties die, the child and the mother. If she was impregnated by Rhaegar and died in childbirth and the child died too, then R + L could still be possible in love terms but not produce anything like J, Jon. Jon could be Neds offspring with an unknown party or one we know or something noone mentioned....

Brandons bastard. It would give reason why he wouldnt give Catelyn the same excuse he gives Robert. Because he knows it directly involves her.

Its my 3 points, only crackpot add ons so dont destroy me.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

ALso the site TOJ airs out Wyalla, Lyanna and Ashara pretty well, given facts and falsees for all of them so check it out before making judgement, they did very sound work with specific pg. numbers and quotes. Heres the link.
[url="http://www.towerofthehand.com/articles/a/0011/"]http://www.towerofthehand.com/articles/a/0011/[/url]
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If Lyanna was Jon's mother and Rhaegar wasn't the father, then what's the secrecy all about? Ned spoke to Lyanna before she died; I think it's reasonable to believe that he knows who Jon's father is. I can understand Ned not publishing the fact that he was raising Rhaegar's heir, but why not tell Jon, Catelyn, and everyone else the truth if Jon's father is just some random guy? It would ease the tension in Ned's marriage.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...