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R. Scott Bakker


TerraPrime

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I've read Darkness...and...well...I don't get it. It was neat and all, it just wasn't really very interesting. I thought the writing was sort of mundane, the plot confusingly put together, but underneath that fairly basic, and the characters either irrtating or ludicurous. Only Achamian was at all readable, and even he never got to be compelling. And the philosophy, assuming Kellhus', um, ideology? way-of-life? whatever?, is what's refered to, was so over the top that I couldn't decide whether if felt more like an RPG or monty python skit. And it wasn't funny.

It's one of those books that makes me feel as if saying "I didn't like it" is akin to saying "i'm not bright enough to get it", which dosen't particulalry endear it either. Nevertheless - could someone explain what i'm missing here, and wether I should get the next one?

I just finished the first one and I didn't have any of the problems you had. I thought it was an amazing novel and it kept me in high interest.

What exactly were your issues with the plot? I thought it was pretty self explanatory. A war is being declared against the current inhabitants (The Fanim) of a holy city (shimeh). But from what we've seen we can pretty much say that this is the beginning of the Second Apocalypse.

I guess the way you felt about Kellhus makes sense, but we don't know what Kellhus is. He seems to be something greater than a normal human being.

I'm really looking forward to the next one, I just have to go buy it. :love:

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Thats sort of it. The plot is nothing particulalry interesting - Different factions war and squabble unaware of the great evil lurking. You could sum up ASOIAF much like that. Or a hundred other fantasy books. Neither the worldbuilding nor the plot make this a particulalry interesting book, so it has to be up to the characters and the subplot, and they fail too. And this gets covered up by supposedly convulting the plot - except it isn't. Even the political squabbling around the holy war or Achamians intrigues aren't very complex or interesting, they're just recounted in a convulted and confusing manner through various heavily biased characters so that it's harder to piece together whats going on. Still dosen't make it interesting though.

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Thats sort of it. The plot is nothing particulalry interesting - Different factions war and squabble unaware of the great evil lurking. You could sum up ASOIAF much like that. Or a hundred other fantasy books. Neither the worldbuilding nor the plot make this a particulalry interesting book, so it has to be up to the characters and the subplot, and they fail too. And this gets covered up by supposedly convulting the plot - except it isn't. Even the political squabbling around the holy war or Achamians intrigues aren't very complex or interesting, they're just recounted in a convulted and confusing manner through various heavily biased characters so that it's harder to piece together whats going on. Still dosen't make it interesting though.

Hmm, then I guess it's a case of "To each his own" :lol:

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Thats sort of it. The plot is nothing particulalry interesting - Different factions war and squabble unaware of the great evil lurking. You could sum up ASOIAF much like that. Or a hundred other fantasy books. Neither the worldbuilding nor the plot make this a particulalry interesting book, so it has to be up to the characters and the subplot, and they fail too.

As said earlier: to each his own?

I will say that I had trouble at first getting into the book. But once we met Achamian, I was drawn in. I think this is one of those stories within the lines? Not plot and subplot -- but how much of it can you build in your head? To me, just fretting about why sorcery was so maligned (yet tacitly accepted by the power structures) was interesting. Also -- having the Mandate Schoolmen suffer so horribly every night? I think maybe the books require a lot of projecting and empathy from the reader when it comes to delving into the characters (especially Achamian and Cnaiur).

Kellhus (and the Dunyain) are cyphers throughout the first book (IIRC). In the second, you learn a fair bit more about their training and mission. You also learn a lot about the Consult, the Inchoroi and the day that the No-God died.

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Thats sort of it. The plot is nothing particulalry interesting - Different factions war and squabble unaware of the great evil lurking... Still dosen't make it interesting though.

Datepalm, I had the same confusion at the end of Darkness. But the recommendations I had for the series (from the board here) made me prepared, and I had bought the Warrior Prophet at the same time. The title is a dead giveaway, in retrospect, but "The Darkness that comes Before" is one long prologue for the other books. The plot advances in TWP and is almost too fast in the concluding volume, TTT.

Darkness is the price of admission into the world of Earwa. It's steep, but it's worth it.

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As said earlier: to each his own?

I will say that I had trouble at first getting into the book.

Bakkers writing improved a heck of alot through out the first book. At first I thought the writing was really bad, but about a quarter of the way in, it started to get much better.

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Bakkers writing improved a heck of alot through out the first book. At first I thought the writing was really bad, but about a quarter of the way in, it started to get much better.

or maybe we just got used to it? :lol:

This isn't a book I'd recommend to everyone -- just not to the tastes of some. But holy crap, TWP is a crackin' read. (and TTT is good, too)

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lousy Borders only had one of his books in; and not only was it hardcover- an investment I'm unwilling to make for the first book I read by an author, but also it was the third in a series. Going out into the world to purchase books sucks.

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lousy Borders only had one of his books in; and not only was it hardcover- an investment I'm unwilling to make for the first book I read by an author, but also it was the third in a series. Going out into the world to purchase books sucks.

Be. In. Israel.

then you get to whine on the dificulty of getting your hands on english language books.

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I agree that TWP and TTT pick up the pacing and plot. However, the whole series is really a prolouge to a larger work. The original concept was for Bakker to write a trilogy and PON represents the growth of the first book of the original trilogy.

If you really didn't enjoy the characters and ideas of TDTCB, I think that you may not like the other books. I also thought that TDTCB was flawed and slow, but--at the same time--I enjoyed it for what it was.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I would like to thank all the Bakker fans here for recommending his work. I started reading the first book, and I have to say that after enduring the first part, I am being sucked in more and more into this world and the plot.

I really like religion and magic being in the very center of the political intrigue, and I like that the things allude to the real world but do not copy it, that the work is smart and brave enough to deal with religious fanatism and themes of that nature, and that the events and circumstances are always just enough different from the real world to appear exotic and fantastic. While I still like Kay more in the genre of the "incredibly acute politics" and Martin holds the place in my heart reserved for the most "real" world, and the most "alive/sympathetic" characters, I am having a great time reading it, and I am cheering loudly for the author for whom this is the first novel.

It's very, very good!

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I love the different schools of magic and as the trilogy develps how he explains more and more of it.

The description of the sorcerous battles in TTT were amazing.

Yes. I especially love the

SPOILER: TTT
irony that Moenghus cannot master the Psukhe because the Dunyain are all intellect. Talk about PWND. :lol:
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