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Mafia 57: The stowaways

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[quote name='House Stonetree' post='1517474' date='Sep 14 2008, 18.25']Do you think that there is a pair of friends out there?[/quote]
Flip a coin. It's guess is as good as mine.

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[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1517466' date='Sep 14 2008, 12.12']Sorry people, I'try to go into the game AFAIR,[/quote]It meant ASAP, of course.
Sorry ppl, but being drunk as a dead horse doesn't help a lot. I'll be here exactly when I'll be able to think... at least, as alive horse.

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[quote name='House Harlaw' post='1517200' date='Sep 14 2008, 00.04']Where has everybody gone?!

It's lonely here, and there's a giant sea penis monster thing lurking somewhere :S

I'm off to bed. Will contribute properly later.[/quote]
Firstly, I hate this sort of "Well, I didn't read the thread and I don't have anything to say, and I refuse to interact with anybody, because it's bed time" posts. Seriously, not much has been said so far, say something, do something. Every post you make helps us find the evils, as long as you actually [i]say something in it[/i].
I have to say, there are some people who seem to just be trying to slide by, without saying or doing anything. (Yes, I know this is always the case...) It doesn't help the innocents, so by default it puts you on my suspect list.
[quote name='House Kenning' post='1517307' date='Sep 14 2008, 06.27']Fuck, you, Drumm, for stealing my thoughts.

I'll just add that putting his vote back seems weirder considering it was a joke vote. I mean, worrying about the number of joke votes on someone to the point where he goes back and checks the number of them....definitely overcautious. Wynch[/quote]
Um, could you keep the language civil, please. There's nothing to be gained from spouting off obscenities, at least in a game like this.

Now then, looking at what's happened so far:

High end suspects: [b]Wynch [/b]
While I can understand Stonetree's reasoning, I have to agree that Wynch looks the most suspiscious so far. He wanted to have a vote going while he was gone (this is what I think), so he chose someone he thought to be a "safe" target, nased purely on joke material. Then, he looks again (having not paid much attention at all the first time, clearly) and sees my post, which causes him to think he's actually ended up in a rather unsafe position to leave his vote, so off it goes in a kneejerk reaction, not realising that I was being completely sarcastic. Then, he checks again, and realises that I was not, in fact, anywhere near being lynched, and decides to cut his losses and put the vote back. Is it a great case? No, they never are at this point in the game. But it does put him at the top of my suspect list.

Lower tier: Harlaw, Satltcliff, Goodbrother
For being low-posting, radar-dodging, contributionless... Well, you get my point. These people seem to be trying to dodge out of the spotlight while still being "around", which makes me much more suspiscious of them.

The rest really don't matter much at this point, as far as I'm concerned. I think Stonetree sounds good so far, but I have no concrete feelings on the rest.

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Good morning. I'd like to thank the pirate captain for letting me sleep in. :P

Since we have moved from the joke vote portion of the game I'll [b]remove vote[/b] from Drumm.

Regarding Wynch, I didn't find the initial vote, unvote, vote again on Merlyn bothersome. It happened in a relatively short period of time (16 mins.) and felt to me as within the flow of a read.

The following exchange between Wynch and Orkwood reveal Orkwood's nervousness and Wynch not not quite telling the truth about Merlyn's jokey post (both called out by Myre, who I am liking even if he has only 2 posts.) Out of the two, I'd rate Orkwood a little higher on the guilty-looking list.

At this point I am most bothered by Stonetree's list:
[quote name='House Stonetree' post='1517441' date='Sep 14 2008, 10.38']*snip*

Wynch and Volmark (based on post [url="http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=30858&view=findpost&p=1517180"]43[/url] alone :P) are top on my innocent list, but Myre is only close behind. Just a little hint for those non-pirates that would like to target someone of the other team. :pirate:

Merlyn, however, sounds like someone who desperatly tries to be on scene (post [url="http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=30858&view=findpost&p=1517203"]45[/url] is a good example).

Harlaw has been very quiet.

Goodbrother has been very quiet. He also looks like Greyjoy (dunno if that's good or bad).

That's all I can say between two beakers of rum.[/quote]
I don't like lists at this point in a game. It strikes me as a move by a baddie to post something helpful.



[b]Stonetree[/b]


edit: took out a reference to a link being wrong. Either I was wrong about the link being wrong, or it got fixed.

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I just woke up and did some math homework. Apparently I wasn't too sleepy to do math, but I'm too groggy to read these posts.

I don't like Saltcliffe's most recent post. I'm going to see if I can formulate a little case. Other than that, I currently like Stonetree, and I think Oakhill (is that the right name?) looks like an FM who knows what he's doing. Merlyn and Wynch could go either way; it's hard to say because they aren't as strong of players. I think they're both innocent, actually. I don't like the argument about nervous FM. When I've played FM in the past, I was no more nervous than when playing an innocent. I was the most nervous when I was about to get lynched, whether I was FM or innocent.

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It is day 1.

13 players remain: Botley, Drumm, Farwynd, Goodbrother, Harlaw, Kenning, Merlyn, Myre, Orkwood, Saltcliffe, Stonetree, Volmark, Wynch.

7 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night.

4 votes for Wynch ( Drumm, Kenning, Orkwood, Merlyn)
2 votes for Merlyn ( Goodbrother, Botley)
2 votes for Orkwood (Myre, Wynch)
1 vote for Harlaw ( Stonetree)
1 vote for Stonetree ( Saltcliffe)

3 players have not voted: Farwynd, Harlaw, Volmark.

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[quote name='House Merlyn' post='1517509' date='Sep 14 2008, 18.58']Firstly, I hate this sort of "Well, I didn't read the thread and I don't have anything to say, and I refuse to interact with anybody, because it's bed time" posts. Seriously, not much has been said so far, say something, do something. Every post you make helps us find the evils, as long as you actually [i]say something in it[/i].[/quote]
Well, I don't blame him. I'm a little scared of giant sea penis monsters myself.

[quote name='House Botley' post='1517522' date='Sep 14 2008, 19.13']I don't like Saltcliffe's most recent post. I'm going to see if I can formulate a little case.[/quote]
Now this is interesting because I rather liked Saltcliffe's most recent post.

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[quote name='House Stonetree' post='1517474' date='Sep 14 2008, 11.25']Do you think that there is a pair of friends out there?[/quote]
Right or wrong, I am not bothered by role speculation. Unfortunately for team good, the only way to get information is to share it on the thread. Team bad, on the other hand, can deduce the numbers of roled innocents from knowing their own team make-up.

I am bothered by a request for role speculation without any speculation on your part. This seems to be another "trying to contribute without contributing" post.

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CASE ON SALTCLIFFE

1st post: Introductory post.

2nd: [quote]You like to beat your little "Drumm" do you?

I bet nothing comes of it.

*snickers*[/quote]
A joke vote.

3rd: Removes joke vote. I see no need to do that, as Drumm is nowhere near getting lynched, but whatever. This could be an attempt to make it look like he's being fair, but it's a bit ridiculous. I don't know, maybe he actually was trying to be fair.
[quote]Regarding Wynch, I didn't find the initial vote, unvote, vote again on Merlyn bothersome. It happened in a relatively short period of time (16 mins.) and felt to me as within the flow of a read.[/quote]
I agree with that, but that's why I never post until I've read everything.
[quote]The following exchange between Wynch and Orkwood reveal Orkwood's nervousness and Wynch not not quite telling the truth about Merlyn's jokey post (both called out by Myre, who I am liking even if he has only 2 posts.) Out of the two, I'd rate Orkwood a little higher on the guilty-looking list.[/quote]

Then he votes Stonetree because...Stonetree created a list. I don't see what's wrong with a list at this stage in the game, and it seems a bit late for joke votes.


Random note:
[quote name='Merlyn']Will you guys just stop voting for me... Please? Look, I'm already like halfway to being lynched, give or take a few. I don't want to dieeeeee[/quote]
Halfway to being lynched is 3 or 4. "A few" means 3 or 4. That means you could have 0 votes, or you could be lynched already. :smileysex:

I am most suspicious of Saltcliffe, but I'm second most suspicious of [b]Orkwood[/b] and he's more likely to get lynched at this point.

I just saw this:
[quote name='Drumm']Now this is interesting because I rather liked Saltcliffe's most recent post.[/quote]
Now this is interesting because something about Drumm rubs me the wrong way. It's not really enough for me to want to lynch him, but he's a little suspicious. Although, I doubt he is an FM. There are two teams of FM, so I'm not really sure how that would work.

[quote name='Saltcliffe']Right or wrong, I am not bothered by role speculation. Unfortunately for team good, the only way to get information is to share it on the thread. Team bad, on the other hand, can deduce the numbers of roled innocents from knowing their own team make-up.[/quote]
Oh so now speculating is good, but lists are bad. (I am probably misinterpreting this.)

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Rethinking Saltcliffe:

It's hard to tell what he thinks. Hey Saltcliffe, in the Merlyn vs. Wynch debate, which side do you take? Or do you think they're both innocent? You voted Stonetree for a reason I don't like. I liked the Stonetree quote in your post, and I agree with it. Even if I didn't agree with it, I wouldn't vote Stonetree just because he made a list.

After reconsidering, Saltcliffe seems fairly innocent, but that vote was weird. :unsure:

ETA: Saltcliffe, who's this pirate captain you speak of?

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[quote name='House Botley' post='1517542' date='Sep 14 2008, 19.40']Now this is interesting because something about Drumm rubs me the wrong way. It's not really enough for me to want to lynch him, but he's a little suspicious. Although, I doubt he is an FM. There are two teams of FM, so I'm not really sure how that would work.[/quote]
I should damn well hope everyone's at least little suspicious. Suspicious is the name of the game here. Well, mafia's the name of the game, but you know what I mean. :P

Want to hear Saltcliffe defend himself, so I'll be keeping my mouth shut for now. Until then: I think your case was a valiant effort, but it sucked. It is not making you look good in my book. I find the Orkwood vote especially ridiculous. It specifically looks a little wishy-washy and agreeable. We are not at compromise and scramble for a lynch mode yet after all.

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[quote name='House Drumm' post='1517549' date='Sep 14 2008, 12.49']I should damn well hope everyone's at least little suspicious. Suspicious is the name of the game here. Well, mafia's the name of the game, but you know what I mean. :P

Want to hear Saltcliffe defend himself, so I'll be keeping my mouth shut for now. Until then: I think your case was a valiant effort, but it sucked. It is not making you look good in my book. I find the Orkwood vote especially ridiculous. It specifically looks a little wishy-washy and agreeable. We are not at compromise and scramble for a lynch mode yet after all.[/quote]
Well I just see no way that Saltcliffe will get lynched today, because no one else (as far as I know) think he looks guilty. I just wanted to be honest and say who I suspected and why. If some other people want to vote for Saltcliffe, I would join that lynch mob.

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[quote name='House Botley' post='1517554' date='Sep 14 2008, 19.55']Well I just see no way that Saltcliffe will get lynched today, because no one else (as far as I know) think he looks guilty. I just wanted to be honest and say who I suspected and why. If some other people want to vote for Saltcliffe, I would join that lynch mob.[/quote]
That, my friend, is generally referred to as opportunism.

It just seems awfully softcore to make a case on your Numero Uno suspect and then not vote him. And then follow up with a "actually, he's kinda innocent" post. It'd be suspicious if it wouldn't be the worst distancing case I've ever seen that no FM, no matter how inept, would do. So it's just kinda funny. :P

edit: Er. Realize now that this post makes no sense. 1) I am suspicious of you, Botley, for being wishy-washy. 2) I [i]would[/i] like to infer you're distancing from your killer buddy Saltcliffe, but there's no way you suck that much. :P

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[quote name='House Drumm' post='1517557' date='Sep 14 2008, 12.58']That, my friend, is generally referred to as opportunism.

It just seems awfully softcore to make a case on your Numero Uno suspect and then not vote him. And then follow up with a "actually, he's kinda innocent" post. It'd be suspicious if it wouldn't be the worst distancing case I've ever seen that no FM, no matter how inept, would do. So it's just kinda funny. :P[/quote]
Well I have mixed feelings. I basically agree that my case sucked. My instinct still doesn't like Saltcliffe though. I'd like to know why Saltcliffe voted for Stonetree; that action seemed, if not suspicious, very strange.

And my instinct is suspicious of you, but you seem logical and you generally say stuff that I agree with.

Must . . . be . . . decisive . . . . . . . . failing . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :leaving:

Edit: What I mean is, I'm aware that I'm not being decisive. It's because I don't feel very strongly one way or the other. My instinct says one thing, and logic says something else. Instinct is really dumb sometimes, but logic doesn't always work either. The best FM look totally innocent, but maybe a gut feeling is suspicious of them. I'm a bit wary because in previous games, I've suspected someone based on gut, and then logically found no reason to suspect them, and then they ended up being FM.

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[quote name='House Botley' post='1517542' date='Sep 14 2008, 11.40']CASE ON SALTCLIFFE

1st post: Introductory post.

2nd:
A joke vote.

3rd: Removes joke vote. I see no need to do that, as Drumm is nowhere near getting lynched, but whatever. This could be an attempt to make it look like he's being fair, but it's a bit ridiculous. I don't know, maybe he actually was trying to be fair.

I agree with that, but that's why I never post until I've read everything.


Then he votes Stonetree because...Stonetree created a list. I don't see what's wrong with a list at this stage in the game, and it seems a bit late for joke votes.


Random note:

Halfway to being lynched is 3 or 4. "A few" means 3 or 4. That means you could have 0 votes, or you could be lynched already. :smileysex:

I am most suspicious of Saltcliffe, but I'm second most suspicious of [b]Orkwood[/b] and he's more likely to get lynched at this point.

I just saw this:

Now this is interesting because something about Drumm rubs me the wrong way. It's not really enough for me to want to lynch him, but he's a little suspicious. Although, I doubt he is an FM. There are two teams of FM, so I'm not really sure how that would work.


Oh so now speculating is good, but lists are bad. (I am probably misinterpreting this.)[/quote]

Just to make sure, the only reason you are voting me is that I am most likely to be lynched? I have the same number of votes as Merlyn and only half the votes of Wynch.

Although you listed me as you're #2, you gave no reason other than my likely demise.

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[quote name='House Goodbrother' post='1517365' date='Sep 14 2008, 15.54']Now we be jumping on the bandwagon eh?[/quote]
Goodbrother, this is your only substantial post of the game, and it ain't even that substantial. Whenever you get your ass back to the game, I'd love to hear more.

What do you think of Orkwood? You directed the bandwagon comment at him, so I'd hope you have thoughts to share, no? As it stands, I'm plenty willing to get rid of deadweight like you today, so I'm hoping you show up soon.

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[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1517576' date='Sep 14 2008, 13.19']Just to make sure, the only reason you are voting me is that I am most likely to be lynched? I have the same number of votes as Merlyn and only half the votes of Wynch.

Although you listed me as you're #2, you gave no reason other than my likely demise.[/quote]
No, I voted you because you're the most likely to get lynched OF MY TOP SUSPECTS. You seem to realize that in paragraph 2. I don't think your arguments against Wylde are good, although if I were to use that as a reason I'd be a hypocrite. I basically agree with [url="http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=30858&view=findpost&p=1517404"]post 68[/url].

After a couple rereads, I've realized that none of the cases today have been very good IMO. So even though the case against you isn't great, I still think it's the best we have.

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[quote name='House Botley' post='1517548' date='Sep 14 2008, 12.46']Rethinking Saltcliffe:

It's hard to tell what he thinks. Hey Saltcliffe, in the Merlyn vs. Wynch debate, which side do you take? Or do you think they're both innocent? You voted Stonetree for a reason I don't like. I liked the Stonetree quote in your post, and I agree with it. Even if I didn't agree with it, I wouldn't vote Stonetree just because he made a list.

After reconsidering, Saltcliffe seems fairly innocent, but that vote was weird. :unsure:

ETA: Saltcliffe, who's this pirate captain you speak of?[/quote]

Which side do I take in the Merlyn/Wynch debate? I've already said that Wynch's vote, unvote, vote didn't trouble me. I'll add that Merlyn had lots of fun RPing and now has a serious post. While I don't agree with all of it, it is thought out and shows that Merlyn is thinking about the game. I call no one at this point innocent (well, except for myself) but on the FMiness meter, Wynch rate higher than Merlyn, however, neither has done anything I'd vote for.

The fallout of Merlyn/Wynch was Wynch/Orkwood (the more important of the exchanges)... which I did comment on.

I am not voting Stonetree just because he made a list. Lists have their purposes. I am voting Stonetree for a pattern of behavior that FM like to follow. One of those things that FM do are make posts which look like they are contributing when in actuallity they aren't. That is what I feel Stonetree has done. You are not required to feel the same way I do.

However, when you jump to Stonetree's defense before he jumps to his own, when you make a lame case to OMGUS me for Stonetree, that makes you look like you are teamed with Stonetree.

These "feelings"and "instincts" you have are called vibes. Welcome to Team Humanities.

I believe the pirate captian is Blackfyre.

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After scanning the posts, I should say Botley's reasoning sucks, He first joke votes Merlyn, come back with wall of text
observations telling his experience of being so calm when he played FM and pirate, posting alot during a short period to fake calmness?
His reasoning results in suspecting Saltcliffe to be most suspicious, but surprisingly votes for his second player on his suspicion list just because he probably getting lynched this round? Thats what I dont like about [b]Botely[/b] and his style.

Another thing is that in the next post, he redeems Saltcliffe which was Top on his list, a little Nervous arent we?

His next post replying to Drumm is full of indecisiveness, And what may cause this? Nervousness? If we base our logic on his own logic, then he is not playing an innocent role here.

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[quote name='House Botley' post='1517583' date='Sep 14 2008, 14.27']No, I voted you because you're the most likely to get lynched OF MY TOP SUSPECTS. You seem to realize that in paragraph 2. I don't think your arguments against Wylde are good, although if I were to use that as a reason I'd be a hypocrite. I basically agree with [url="http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=30858&view=findpost&p=1517404"]post 68[/url].

After a couple rereads, I've realized that none of the cases today have been very good IMO. So even though the case against you isn't great, I still think it's the best we have.[/quote]
What? No good cases on day 1? Wow, the shock... Also, got poetry on the brain? :thumbsup:

The case on Orkwood is basically the same as the case on Wynch, except that there's a bit less to it, which makes me wonder whhy so many people seem to favour it over the Wynch case, though I'm glad that you're at least looking outside of the box and trying to see who else is doing things.

I'm not sure what to think of Saltcliffe's case- it's almost nonsensical, being that it's based on something that makes this game tick- suspect lists. I find these very important, since the bad guys tend to fudge around with them, which gives us something to work with as the day goes on. I'm not a big fan of Stonetree's useless call for role speculation (speculating on the evil team's setup is fine. Doing so for innocent roles does not really help us so much, IMO.), but really he's struck me as more innocent than evil, and considering how contrived Saltciffe's case looks, I'm willing to add him (Saltcliff) to my list of suspects.

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