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[quote name='House Botley' post='1567999' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.46']As many others have already pointed out, we won't get a perfect case on day 1, but we have some indicators that might help us to sort some players out:
1) Players which have been busy:
Harlaw, Myre, Orkwood, Botley
2) Under radar players:
Saltcliffe, Farwynd, Volmark
3) Players that have an obvious lack of participation:
Merlyn, Kenning[/quote]
[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1567790' date='Oct 26 2008, 14.45']I made a joke vote. Then I was off and on and didn't post because I was mainly distracted with other things going on. I'll be back for a little more depth in about 2 hours.[/quote]
Why don't I get the 'busy' tag? :(
[quote name='House Botley' post='1567999' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.46']Goodbrother is not on my list, since I don't suspect him at all.[/quote] This is ridiculous. Everyone is suspicious, there are no CIs or PIs in this game, particularly this early. You are either making a tactical error here, or looking to gain trust by seeming nice.

[quote name='House Botley' post='1567999' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.46']1) He has done nothing to develop suspicions.[/quote] I didn't have much time to post earlier regarding my suspicion, however you are looking more and more suspicious. However, in this case, my suspicion of you is not omgus. You haven't been entirely honest in your analysis, which has been pointed out a few times and you've been unable to explain it to my satisfaction.
[quote name='House Botley' post='1567999' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.46']2) He has only voted Merlyn, claiming it was a joke. His vote is still on Merlyn, and as far as I remember he never suspected anyone else.[/quote] It was a joke, read: [quote name='House Farwynd' post='1567306' date='Oct 25 2008, 20.58'][b]Merlyn [/b]is guilty. Only serial killers would have to drink to get over the evil they perform at night. :P[/quote] You are assuming that I made a serious vote based on OOC information (Merlyn drinking). Do you really think that my joke was serious?

[quote name='House Botley' post='1567999' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.46']3) Is over-defensive. I don't think that an innocent player would panic like him only because of one vote. It's pretty obvious that he is afraid.[/quote] I am not defending myself, I am picking apart your attacks because you are not being altogether straight with everyone. Your analysis of SK behavior is just wrong and you've been unable to make a decent argument to back it up and much of your suspicion of me is a result of that shaky foundation. Frankly, most of your assumptions are based on extremely little evidence. You believe that you are absolutely right one these ideas and base all of your suspicion from that point, not necessarily a good way to be going about things.
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Cross posted, so it's not a giant OMGUS. I'd actually appreciate if anyone will be on for a while if you could let the wizard post his coherent suspicions on me. It'll make an interesting read at least.

I really don't get how I'm your favourite to vote off because of intestinal rumblings, while you then list two low contribution posters, then in fourth the person with the closest thing to a case from you. That said, I don't buy the case on Myre either. Over all, I just don't have much faith in your list... Neither in how it's been formed nor in the logic behind the placements.
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Ok, so I didn’t like this post by Orkwood:

[quote name='Orkwood']What?

Either you are lying, which is just, weird.
Or you are symping, but why when there are no symps?
Or a mod has given you, via PM, a CI. Why would they do that?

None of the above make sense.[/quote]

I read Botley’s post (to which the above is a response) just as a joke, so I don’t like this big deal that Orkwood has seemed to have made of it. Seems a bit…manufactured. Orkwood then says that Goodbrother’s comment is a point against him, but personally that comment only made me more instinctively suspicious of Goodbrother, and thus I don’t think it’s something an SK would deliberately do. Orkwood then wants to encourage more talk…fine, that’s all good, but I don’t know, something about it makes me think that orkwood is angling up to lead the group and is a baddie. He then goes after me – all that is fair enough, my vote is not OMGUS, but it is a pretty safe thing to do. So yeh, lynch Orkwood tomorrow guys!
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[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1568020' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.07']Why don't I get the 'busy' tag? :([/quote]

:lol: I meant busy in this game in sense of "active". Making plans to kill people in the meanwhile is not "busy". ;)

[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1568020' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.07']This is ridiculous. Everyone is suspicious, there are no CIs or PIs in this game, particularly this early. You are either making a tactical error here, or looking to gain trust by seeming nice.[/quote]

So you admit that you were under radar and suspcious?

[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1568020' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.07']I didn't have much time to post earlier regarding my suspicion, however you are looking more and more suspicious. However, in this case, my suspicion of you is not omgus. You haven't been entirely honest in your analysis, which has been pointed out a few times and you've been unable to explain it to my satisfaction.
It was a joke, read: You are assuming that I made a serious vote based on OOC information (Merlyn drinking). Do you really think that my joke was serious?[/quote]

Why didn't you vote Goodbrother or Volmark before? Your vote sticks out because you had plenty of options to vote before. So why Merlyn? Perhaps because you're an innocent joker, perhaps because you wanted to put your vote somewhere as an evil joker, before you left the thread.

[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1568020' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.07']I am not defending myself, I am picking apart your attacks because you are not being altogether straight with everyone. Your analysis of SK behavior is just wrong and you've been unable to make a decent argument to back it up and much of your suspicion of me is a result of that shaky foundation. Frankly, most of your assumptions are based on extremely little evidence. You believe that you are absolutely right one these ideas and base all of your suspicion from that point, not necessarily a good way to be going about things.[/quote]

I pretty much reflected the common known SK profile. You fit in that profile. By neglecting that this profile exists, you are also defending yourself, so please don't pretend that you are acting selflessly.
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[quote name='House Orkwood' post='1568022' date='Oct 26 2008, 19.08']Over all, I just don't have much faith in your list... Neither in how it's been formed nor in the logic behind the placements.[/quote]

Well neither do I really, but still, i have spent some time making it, not to save my own skin but because you all might find the information useful.
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[quote name='House Botley' post='1568033' date='Oct 26 2008, 19.20']Why didn't you vote Goodbrother or Volmark before? Your vote sticks out because you had plenty of options to vote before. So why Merlyn? Perhaps because you're an innocent joker, perhaps because you wanted to put your vote somewhere as an evil joker, before you left the thread.[/quote]
Why Merlyn? I felt like it at the time, nothing else was particularly engrossing and it was still rather early in the game. Try working under the assumption that I'm not guilty and see that it makes more sense than if I was guilty. An evil joker? Dude, this is just getting more ridiculous. How often are people who make some jokes and are relatively inactive at the beginning (for whatever reason) completely ignored? Not very often. I haven't had a chance to give much contribution and you'll notice that I haven't been faking that. That is the under the radar behavior should concern you, it doesn't however for whatever reason.

[quote name='House Botley' post='1568033' date='Oct 26 2008, 19.20']I pretty much reflected the common known SK profile. You fit in that profile. By neglecting that this profile exists, you are also defending yourself, so please don't pretend that you are acting selflessly.[/quote]
The common SK profile is to avoid NKs? Normally SKs are BP and therefore have less to fear at night than other baddies (there worst case scenario is being found out by an evil, although many games we play have healers too. So this game is relatively unique in that sense too). You are trying to force a circle through a square whole here and you don't seem to get that, or care.
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[quote name='House Merlyn' post='1568032' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.19']Ok, so I didn’t like this post by Orkwood:



I read Botley’s post (to which the above is a response) just as a joke, so I don’t like this big deal that Orkwood has seemed to have made of it. Seems a bit…manufactured. Orkwood then says that Goodbrother’s comment is a point against him, but personally that comment only made me more instinctively suspicious of Goodbrother, and thus I don’t think it’s something an SK would deliberately do. Orkwood then wants to encourage more talk…fine, that’s all good, but I don’t know, something about it makes me think that orkwood is angling up to lead the group and is a baddie. He then goes after me – all that is fair enough, my vote is not OMGUS, but it is a pretty safe thing to do. So yeh, lynch Orkwood tomorrow guys![/quote]


[u]GUIDE TO GET YOUR ENEMY DEAD:[/u]


1) Basically you have two options:

a) get him lynched

b) get him killed

There is a third option when you are the SK:

c) kill him yourself



2) Try to find out which of these options is the likeliest to happen.

A lynch requires that you are able to convince the majority of the players. For a kill you have to convince one of the SK. It is thus easier to get your enemy killed.


3) So you want the SK to do the job.

If you want that both SK (or the other SK, if your enemy is an SK himself) have an interest to kill the other one, you have to make him CI. Killers prefer to kill those who are less lynchable than they are.




CONCLUSION:


You did the opposite thing of what you should have done for getting Orkwood dead.


Here is how you should have written your post:

[quote]I read Botley’s post (to which the above is a response) notas a joke, so I like this big deal that Orkwood made of it. Seems a bit like Orkwood is really interested in lynching someone. Orkwood then says that Goodbrother’s comment is a point against him, which agree with, and thus I think it’s something an SK would deliberately do. Orkwood then wants to encourage more talk…fine, that’s all good. He then goes after me – all that is fair enough, my vote is not OMGUS, but it is a pretty right thing to do, from his POV. So yeh, don't lynch Orkwood tomorrow guys, i think he's just an innocent fellow like me![/quote]
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[quote name='House Botley' post='1568049' date='Oct 26 2008, 19.30'][A lynch requires that you are able to convince the majority of the players. For a kill you have to convince one of the SK. It is thus easier to get your enemy killed.


3) So you want the SK to do the job.

If you want that both SK (or the other SK, if your enemy is an SK himself) have an interest to kill the other one, you have to make him CI. Killers prefer to kill those who are less lynchable than they are.

CONCLUSION:

You did the opposite thing of what you should have done for getting Orkwood dead.

Here is how you should have written your post:[/quote]

Lol, well I don't think I could have convinced a potential SK that Orkwood is innocent since he is so patently guilty, so my post made perfect sense!
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[quote name='House Farwynd' post='1568047' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.27']Why Merlyn? I felt like it at the time, nothing else was particularly engrossing and it was still rather early in the game. Try working under the assumption that I'm not guilty and see that it makes more sense than if I was guilty. An evil joker? Dude, this is just getting more ridiculous. How often are people who make some jokes and are relatively inactive at the beginning (for whatever reason) completely ignored? Not very often. I haven't had a chance to give much contribution and you'll notice that I haven't been faking that. That is the under the radar behavior should concern you, it doesn't however for whatever reason.


The common SK profile is to avoid NKs? Normally SKs are BP and therefore have less to fear at night than other baddies (there worst case scenario is being found out by an evil, although many games we play have healers too. So this game is relatively unique in that sense too). You are trying to force a circle through a square whole here and you don't seem to get that, or care.[/quote]


SK usually try to avoid a NK. The only SK who didn't care for that was Mexal IIRC.
And you are a bit contradicting yourself by now. My main point was that the SK in this game have no interest in becoming PI, because this might force the other SK to NK him. Youl told me that I was wrong about that. Now you say that I am right?

Or do I confuse you with someone else? :huh:
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[quote name='House Merlyn' post='1568053' date='Oct 26 2008, 18.33']Lol, well I don't think I could have convinced a potential SK that Orkwood is innocent since he is so patently guilty, so my post made perfect sense![/quote]

Could you say that we should all trust Farwynd for the rest of the game? :mellow:
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So, Im back(said i might be) but not for long.
Merlyn is L-1.
Someone said I was suspicious because I did a drive by vote earlier.

Muahahha, watch this for a drive by hammer then!
Nah, just joking.

[b]remove vote
vote farwynd[/b]

For being rather under the radar, and more importantly, for having a joke vote on someone who's at L-1. To me thats just a great excuse for later "oh, it was just a joke" or maybe "I didnt realize, it was just a joke"

Merlyn is L-1.
You are voting for him as a joke.
If you are going to continue voting him, I , for one, would like some reasons.

ETA: Ive got to go to bed. Busy tommorow. See you then. Call it a drive by or whatever...
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[quote name='House Kenning' post='1568077' date='Oct 26 2008, 19.56']For being rather under the radar[/quote]
Really? I'm under the radar now? You really think so? Damn, you are right, I am just being ignored and allowed to just slip on by, just the way I want to. :rolleyes:
[quote name='House Kenning' post='1568077' date='Oct 26 2008, 19.56']and more importantly, for having a joke vote on someone who's at L-1. To me thats just a great excuse for later "oh, it was just a joke" or maybe "I didnt realize, it was just a joke"[/quote]
At what point have I given the impression that I didn't realize that Merlyn was very close to being lynched? I'm well aware. I'm also aware that there aren't any other strong possibilities for lynching because we can't get enough people on at the same time to change. Furthermore, there is the fact that really nobody has done anything to make me strongly resist lynching them. There is your reasoning.

What is your reasoning for NOT voting for him? If we don't lynch him because of you, I will be very unhappy.
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[quote name='House Botley' post='1568055' date='Oct 26 2008, 19.37']SK usually try to avoid a NK. The only SK who didn't care for that was Mexal IIRC.
And you are a bit contradicting yourself by now. My main point was that the SK in this game have no interest in becoming PI, because this might force the other SK to NK him. Youl told me that I was wrong about that. Now you say that I am right?

Or do I confuse you with someone else? :huh:[/quote]
Did he win?
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[quote]It was a joke, read:
[quote]
[b]Merlyn[/b] is guilty. Only serial killers would have to drink to get over the evil they perform at night. :P[/quote]
You are assuming that I made a serious vote based on OOC information (Merlyn drinking). Do you really think that my joke was serious?[/quote]

Oh wait, found your reasons...

Edit:

Wait, you're saying that you're lynching for the sake of a lynch, and nobody has done anything to make you NOT want to lynch him?
Sorry, but personally, I think those reasons are pretty terrible. Yes lynches are good, for information etc. That doesnt mean we should just lynch anyone. We should lynched whoever we find most suspicious etc. Not just someone who hasnt done anything to NOT make you want to lynch him.

Edit 2: Now I really do have to go to bed. Goodnight.
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[quote name='House Kenning' post='1568110' date='Oct 26 2008, 20.31']Ok quick reply(had a shower).
My reasoning for not voting him is simple enough. [u]I dont think he's guilty[/u]. I think there are people who are more suspicious, who I would prefer to lynch. You, for one.[/quote]Are you fucking serious? You're going to tell me that my reasons that I gave you aren't legitimate and you respond with this? What a joke.

[quote name='House Kenning' post='1568114' date='Oct 26 2008, 20.33']Wait, you're saying that you're lynching for the sake of a lynch, and nobody has done anything to make you NOT want to lynch him?
Sorry, but personally, I think those reasons are pretty terrible. Yes lynches are good, for information etc. That doesnt mean we should just lynch anyone. We should lynched whoever we find most suspicious etc. Not just someone who hasnt done anything to NOT make you want to lynch him.[/quote]Yes we should lynch anyone, this is a CF game ffs. The only weapon we have against the SKs are lynches, so it is beyond stupid to waste them and go to night. Fact is, nobody other than Merlyn seems to have a chance of being lynched at the moment. Therefore, I am keeping my vote where it has the most chance of doing good. What is your vote doing? Jack shit. If Merlyn is guilty and isn't lynched tonight then it is your fault (and others who are not voting) when you could easily just vote and have a better chance of getting a SK than going to night. Do you know what the chance of killing a baddie at night is tonight? Zero. And not just for us, but for the even SK also.
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It was day 1.

10 players remain: Botley, Farwynd, Goodbrother, Harlaw, Kenning, Merlyn, Myre, Orkwood, Saltcliffe, Volmark.

6 votes are needed for a conviction or 5 to go to night.

5 votes for Merlyn ( Farwynd, Goodbrother, Myre, Harlaw, Orkwood)
2 votes for Farwynd ( Botley, Kenning)
1 vote for Myre ( Volmark)
1 vote for Orkwood ( Merlyn)

1 players have not voted: Saltcliffe.


that means no-one was lynched.

It is night (let me check my PM's and it may soon be day)
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