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Piper

Pilot content: what scenes?

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Something in my gut tells me that something MAJOR will be cut from this adaptation. For some strange reason I'm thinking it may be the Others, or Dany's whole storyline... is this possible? I know GRRM has said that the script is very faithful to the books... all the same, I'm nervous.

I'm trying to remain a bit grounded here...

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[quote name='Faceless Man of Braavos' post='1588360' date='Nov 14 2008, 09.36']Something in my gut tells me that something MAJOR will be cut from this adaptation. For some strange reason I'm thinking it may be the Others, or Dany's whole storyline... is this possible?[/quote]

Simply put: no I don't think it's possible. There is no way GRRM would say things like "it will be faithful to the book" and then cut POV characters from the story. And, given that the GoT prologue is likely to feature in the pilot episode, I don't see how they could cut the Others.

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[quote name='The Scabbard Of the Morning' post='1588231' date='Nov 13 2008, 17.55']If you had to watch a bunch of people in period costumes for an hour talking to each for an hour, you might not make it to the child tossing scene without hitting the remote.

That's why you need to have action earlier than that .

For me, I would start the story with the storming and capture of the Pyke and the surrender of Balon.[/quote]
If you just stay fairly true to the book and open with the prologue (an extended pre-credit sequence probably), I think you solve this problem right off the bat and lay the groundwork for that, just in the same way the book does. Then come out of the credits and right into the f-ing beheading and Theon kicking he rolly-polly head around like a soccer ball and you'll be establishing the show as more than just people walking around in costumes for an hour.

Regarding Dany, I think you could tell her story in 10-15 minute increments throughout, with some episodes possibly skipping the story all-together. You could easily tell her story in 2 hours total running time, and maybe only in 90 minutes over the course of the season - that would be either 10 minutes an episode over 12 episodes, or 15 minutes an episode over 8. Really though, you'd probably get a bit more here and a bit less there depending on the needs of the story and pacing. Remember, the story was published as a serialized novella in one of the fantasy literature rags and novella-sized stories tend to work out very well when converted to 90 minute or 120 minutes as movies. The formats fit well together, IMO.

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I think Dany definitely needs an appearance in the pilot, even if it is only a short one, she is a kinda important character, as important as the Starks I think.

In terms of action I think the Others opening should stay, plus beheading and Brans fall, also a v brief flashback to the Trident would be so cool! Also there is practice fights with Joffrey and Robb, they could gather some tension there pretty easily. I hope they do the direwolves well, I'm assuming cgi.

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Could you skip the Prologue, and start off the pilot with a scene for the Battle of the Trident where Robert and Rhaegar duel, and Robert comes out on top? I also like the idea of seeing both Ned's and the audience's disappointment when the older, fatter one arrives.

On the other hand, the Prologue seems like something that drags a bit in print, but would be fantastic if done right on film. Particularly since you could start the next scene having the deserter beheaded, and the audience could go "Holy shit, it's the guy!"

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Only downside to having the prologue first is that you might give the impression that this is a typical magic oriented show, when magical elements play such a small part of the story. Wizards and monsters and such are not a big factor, at least at the start.

You are going to show the Others to begin when they don't make another appearance the entire first book?

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[quote name='The Scabbard Of the Morning' post='1588231' date='Nov 13 2008, 17.55']If you had to watch a bunch of people in period costumes for an hour talking to each for an hour, you might not make it to the child tossing scene without hitting the remote.

That's why you need to have action earlier than that .

For me, I would start the story with the storming and capture of the Pyke and the surrender of Balon.

That way you can start the story with Theon's introduction to the Stark Household, which in turn acts as exposition to the audience.
The audience will also get to see Robert still a great warrior, so when you see him fat and out of shape they'll be as shocked as Ned.[/quote]

I like your thinking here, but Pyke? Shouldn't it be the Ruby Ford?

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[quote name='Lady Blackfish' post='1588573' date='Nov 13 2008, 23.50']^ I think he is referring to Greyjoy's Rebellion, the last time Ned saw Robert before AGOT.[/quote]

Oh I know that. It's just not that an important event. The Ruby Ford scene though, that cuts straight to the heart of the series.

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I don't think there is a need to start with a LotR movie historical Prologue, as some are suggesting. The great thing about having 12 or 13 hours of story-telling time is that you can be more leisurely about it. Long as the movies were, the LotR films had less time to tell the story and so the kind of Prologue they did made a lot of sense (and it kicked ass).

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While I could see them not including Dany in a pilot, I think not doing so would be a mistake. you want to avoid the mistakes of other television series of adding major characters later once you're already invested in others. So, like some others said, some snippets here and there of what she's up to makes sense right off the bat.

Liked the idea of the prologue before the first ever showing of the credits in about 5 to 7 minutes tops.

Then intro creds.

Faithful adaptation of the execution and finding of he wolves is a must.

Definitely like "things i do for love as the end of an episode but quite frankly I would not be at all surprised if that doesn't happen until the second episode.

The first episode being filled with "troubles beyond the wall". Intro to all the starks, wolves, finding out about John Aeryn's death, the king coming, perhaps a brief dany interlude or two, and some historical background and you have enough intrigue to move a show. Fighting undead, a beheading, flashbacks of big batlles, and the introduction of a "whodunit" might be enough action for it too.

I think the flashbacks will be mostly "flashes' not full details, of Eddard's memories of the war, of his sister, etc. They might throw some text intros in the beginning to set the situation, but hopefully they don't overdo it as its a turn off to newbies to watch. I think they will spend a heck of a lot of time investing us with Eddard as the main character just like GRRM did.

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[quote name='Brudewollen' post='1588633' date='Nov 13 2008, 22.20']I don't think there is a need to start with a LotR movie historical Prologue, as some are suggesting. The great thing about having 12 or 13 hours of story-telling time is that you can be more leisurely about it. Long as the movies were, the LotR films had less time to tell the story and so the kind of Prologue they did made a lot of sense (and it kicked ass).[/quote]

I don't see this as absolutely necessary for the pilot, but I think it would be a good idea to have an FOTR style introduction (2-3 minutes) if the series is picked up. This lets you incorporate some 'big' action right away explaining the need for the wall, then bring you into the present (death of dragons, robert's rebellion) while mentioning how such myths aren't believed any longer in the new 'rational' world and then move smoothly into the prologue: Others are coming back, magic is returning. And invoking the Lord or the Rings films' structure is probably a decent idea for executives and producers as well as the masses to be able to better hook into the pilot.

I agree that "The Things I do For Love" is a fantastic ending to the pilot.

Dany would be cut except she has the dragons and I can't imagine any executive or producer in hollywood ever saying 'cut the dragons'. I think she'll be given one-two acts per episode, except for the pilot. the end of season one ends with her. If Heroes can keep all its threads, characters and locations juggling, Asoiaf should be able to manage it.

I am looking forward to season four when most of AFFC is cut. :lol:

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[quote name='Cobblestones' post='1588587' date='Nov 14 2008, 00.00']Oh I know that. It's just not that an important event. The Ruby Ford scene though, that cuts straight to the heart of the series.[/quote]

I think it's pretty important to the events of ACOK, especially with Asha and Euron and the rest of the Iron Men getting more important later on in the series.

But mainly I like the idea because then you can introduce everyone at Winterfell and even give a brief tour of the castle that ties naturally into the story.

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The announcement alone is enough to make one feel happy!

What I personally would like to see is the Others, the beheading, the direwolves, the letter that the king is coming to Winterfell (some flashbacks as introduction, including Dany and Viserys escaping over the sea), the beggar king, the horselord,the wedding, Daenaris and the eggs, the winterfell feast, the black brother, the bastard brother, the dwarf brother and the golden brother.

What am I talking about. It doesn't matter at all, whatever is in the prologue, I am absolutely sure that I am going to like it. I know, I know, I know...

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The prologue scene is definitely needed. It's ok if they are never seen again for the rest of the season. Smoke monster from Lost anyone? :)

It sets it off from a Tudor-like "period drama."

This doesn't need to be an action-adventure sword and sandle moive. The books aren't that, why should the make the tv series be that? It is people in costumes talking. Drama. Sure there's an occasional sword fight and battle, but they are few and far beween.

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[quote]If Heroes can keep all its threads, characters and locations juggling, Asoiaf should be able to manage it.[/quote]

The thing is, Heroes [i]can't[/i].

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Dont forget guys, I dont think they will be shooting many LOTR style battles....

[quote]The cost of producing a fantasy series is usually a big factor that deters networks. The producers note “Thrones” is written as a character drama and major battles often take place off stage.

[b]“It’s not a story with a million orcs charging across the plains,” Weiss said. “The most expensive effects are creature effects and there’s not much of that.”[/b][/quote]

[url="http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/11/hbo-orders-fant.html"]http://www.thrfeed.com/2008/11/hbo-orders-fant.html[/url]

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Please don't copy and paste complete content from another site. Excerpt and link. :)

As they say, the major battles are "often" off stage. I think we'll see things play out very much as we see them in the books, which means basically one major battle for each of the two seasons.

Take a look at [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjijnO_30pU"]this[/url]. It was done a BBC docudrama budget, which probably isn't tiny, but I think it'd be well within the reach of an HBO original. There's a fascinating article about how the director managed near-LotR-like effects without using software like WETA's Massive to keep within budget, which can be read [url="http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/features/index.cfm?featureid=1703"]here[/url].

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[quote name='Mors' post='1588639' date='Nov 14 2008, 01.27']While I could see them not including Dany in a pilot, I think not doing so would be a mistake. you want to avoid the mistakes of other television series of adding major characters later once you're already invested in others. So, like some others said, some snippets here and there of what she's up to makes sense right off the bat.[/quote]

Then again, Omar wasn't in the first two episode of the Wire. But I think he still made his mark :D

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Does anybody like the idea of doing a Babylon 5 style narrative credit sequence that gives some exposition on Robert's Rebellion along with some shots of the battle of the ruby ford. Maybe end it with a line along the lines of, "When the fighting had ended, young Robert Baratheon assumed the throne and there was peace once again ... for a time."

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