Pilot content: what scenes?

[Tywin's bastard]

[quote name='Piper' post='1623903' date='Dec 18 2008, 08.20']That synopsis sounds awesome.

Its interesting that the scenes they've added that weren't in the books seem Lannister related. Jaime, Tyrion, Cersei getting some screen time early. While that does sound pretty sweet (the Lannister boys are amusing characters), it does sort of undermine the part of the books where the Starks are clearly the main characters early on that you root for, then there's a slow switch to seeing things more and more from the Lannister side of things.

I have faith, though. That sounded like a pretty amazing episode to watch, I hope it films well (which it should).[/quote]
I think the extra screen time for the Lannisters will make them come off as less than noble so I think that the contrast between them and the Starks will set the foundation as well as the books. Jaime will likely be arrogant, Cersei might seem to hide something and Tyrion is whoring around. They will reach Winterfell soon enough as well since all these things has to happen in 60 minutes so I have no doubt they will be established in all their wonderfully arrogant glory.

[Caligula_K]

I hope the show uses flashbacks rarely, though some, like The Tower of Joy and Jaime on the Iron Throne should definitely be in there. The only way I can think of correctly integrating them well is by going the Carnivale route and having them be part of dreams.

[archgallo]

[quote name='Ran' post='1622049' date='Dec 17 2008, 02.11']My only concern is the fact that it doesn't sound like fantasy very much, you know? No appearance of the Others or of wights. I can see some particularly ignorant viewers, seeing a lack of magic or monsters, thinking it's some sort of historical thing.

Maybe they'll reference magic-type stuff heavily enough -- dragons, surely even the most ignorant can't think those were real, right? ;)[/quote]

Others have already mentioned that an Other appears in the opening scene, but I'd just like to add that according to the comments in the Winter Is Coming blog, Illyrio gives Dany the dragon eggs. So that's another touch of fantasy. :)

[The Mance]

There's nothing particularly fantastic about the dragon eggs until they hatch. Before that, as far as anyone knows, they may as well be interesting looking rocks, or geodes or some such.

[Paxter]

For those of you who haven't already checked this out, there is an excellent critique of the pilot episode (different to the synopsis posted earlier) [url="http://winter-is-coming.blogspot.com/2008/12/professionals-opinion-on-script.html"]here.[/url] After reading his critique, I must say that I am a little bit more worried about the additional content (especially the confrontation between Ned and Jaime). Specifically, my main concern is that, at 7.5 pages, the banquet scene is too long, and the extra pages could have been devoted to making the script a little more faithful to the books in other scenes. As the critic mentions, there is also the problem of Jaime's characterisation. What do you guys think?

The other thing I don't like (and this is probably getting a bit picky) is that Ned is "cleaning his sword" in the Godswood. That just seems out of character to me. I concur with the Brude that it would be much better if he was praying.

Overall, though, it is very encouraging that someone with experience in the industry is pleased with the pilot script.

[Werthead]

[quote name='Brahm_K' post='1624626' date='Dec 18 2008, 20.38']I hope the show uses flashbacks rarely, though some, like The Tower of Joy and Jaime on the Iron Throne should definitely be in there. The only way I can think of correctly integrating them well is by going the Carnivale route and having them be part of dreams.[/quote]

Well, the best depiction of the Tower of Joy sequence we have is a dream already, so that works ;)

[Werthead]

[quote name='Paxter' post='1635157' date='Jan 1 2009, 01.33']For those of you who haven't already checked this out, there is an excellent critique of the pilot episode (different to the synopsis posted earlier) [url="http://winter-is-coming.blogspot.com/2008/12/professionals-opinion-on-script.html"]here.[/url] After reading his critique, I must say that I am a little bit more worried about the additional content (especially the confrontation between Ned and Jaime). Specifically, my main concern is that, at 7.5 pages, the banquet scene is too long, and the extra pages could have been devoted to making the script a little more faithful to the books in other scenes. As the critic mentions, there is also the problem of Jaime's characterisation. What do you guys think?

The other thing I don't like (and this is probably getting a bit picky) is that Ned is "cleaning his sword" in the Godswood. That just seems out of character to me. I concur with the Brude that it would be much better if he was praying.

Overall, though, it is very encouraging that someone with experience in the industry is pleased with the pilot script.[/quote]

I believe that's Brude who's also the mod in charge of the Entertainment forum here ;)

If that's the June 2008 draft of the script which has appeared in quite a few places then I believe it's worth noting that there was at least one additional draft done by D&D which may have addressed these points. Even if not, there are still plenty of changes to be done before the final shooting script is agreed upon.

[Brude]

Yes, it's my critique of the script. I do not know what draft of the script it is, it did not come with a cover.

Regarding the banquet scene - I don't think that 7.5 minutes (give or take) is too long for the scene necessarily, but I did think that those particular two pages could have been better spent. It's really my only major gripe with the script and I think it's very fixable.

[Rinso]

[quote name='Paxter' post='1635157' date='Dec 31 2008, 21.33']The other thing I don't like (and this is probably getting a bit picky) is that Ned is "cleaning his sword" in the Godswood. That just seems out of character to me. I concur with the Brude that it would be much better if he was praying.[/quote]
The cleaning of the sword is STRAIGHT from the book, it's not unfaithful change.

[Ran]

Indeed. Ned goes to the godswood to clean the sword and sort of contemplate and settle himself after killing. He's not there kneeling in front of the heart tree.

That _said_, Catelyn does explain what the godswood is and why it matters in her thoughts, and it seems that the script doesn't really get into it, so it's just Ned in front of a weird tree cleaning his sword without any real explanation as to why he's there. One could perhaps get the idea that he wants to be alone for awhile, but why _there_ specifically...

[Rinso]

Why, because it's the greatest place for juggling lemon pies, of course :unsure:
The heart tree is a giant white tree with red leaves and carved face into it - it wouldn't take a genius to figure out that this is some sacred place. The only confusion might come if the viewers start to think that this is the only religion in Westeros. But that can always be adressed later-on.

[Paxter]

[quote name='Rinso' post='1635471' date='Jan 2 2009, 00.36']The cleaning of the sword is STRAIGHT from the book, it's not unfaithful change.[/quote]

Ha, ha. Thanks Rinso, it's been a long time since I read AGoT, so I just took Brude's criticism as implying that this was unfaithful to the text. Having said that, I still agree with Ran and Brude that the scene should be changed, just to make things clear to the viewer.

[El-ahrairah]

A large number of people will be introduced in the pilot, and the setting of the series is of course very complex. Will all be announced in-story, or by narration or subtitles?

Will Theon Greyjoy, quite a minor character in AGOT, appear in the pilot?

[Brude]

There is no narration in the script and no indication of title cards announcing character names or locations. I suppose they might do title cards for locations, but it's the kind of thing they might not decide upon until it's shot and view it and see if it's confusing without them - but I don't think they will be needed.

Also, narration is usually a crutch that detracts from a film and doesn't help it - with exceptions. You really need to know what you are doing to make it work ("Fight Club" or "Reversal of Fortune" do it great, for instance).

Theon is most definitely in the script and his character comes off about as you would hope/expect, I think.

As for Ned cleaning the sword, yeah, it's the way it happens in the book - maybe I wasn't clear in my review - but as I tried to relate, we don't get an understanding of what the Godswood is as it is written. It may not matter, I could see the actors and the director adding a moment, a look, etc. in the scene that might convey all that is needed, like before Ned gets up, he acknowledges the face on the tree reverently - you don't need much to get that sort of thing across, I suspect.

[McCloskey]

Great synopsis Brude!

The only scene I wondered about initially was the Cersei/Pycelle scene. If they have to cut something that might be the place to do it. Conversely though I do see how that scene can help reinforce the audiences doubts about Jon Arryns death and Lannister involvement. Either way I think its a great pilot - about the best we could hope for.

[cronos619]

Brude,

as described in the version you read, how big was the Royal Party arriving at Winterfell? I ask because I have a breakdown per the book, of the necessary arms and armor that would need to be aquired, but it would not accurately reflect what the pilot will need. The biggest hinderance is the 300+ party of knights, sellswords and outriders that arrive with Robert at Winterfell. If you feel it would be inappropriate to answer this question as it might set a precident for others poking and proding for info, no worries, just let me know.

editing to form complete sentences

[Brude]

The royal party is described as "one hundred strong." This is not an overwhelming number of extras so depending on how thy intend to shoot the scene, they may actually have that many extras (or near to it) for the day's shoot (never mind the Stark extras). There are ways to shoot a smaller number of people to make them look like more - so they may use 50 extras and just cut away and reposition them, then cut back and then suddenly the 50 extras are being doubled into 100 extras - because the first group is standing in front of the stables, the second in front of the Library Tower, or whatever. The more the production team can do with tricks like this, the less $$ they need to spend on costuming, food, etc. for a large cast.

If you watch Dr. Who you might notice they seem to have tons of Cybermen extras in those episodes stomping around, but if you think about how it's being shot I don't think they have much more than 5 or 10 guys playing whole armies of them. They just shoot them from different angles, in different groups, etc. The Dr. and Rose look left, 10 cybermen coming their way, they look right 10 more coming that way, they look up and 5 more are stomping along a catwalk...it's not hard to make 10 guys in identical costumes look like 50 with some clever cutting.

[cronos619]

[quote name='Brude' post='1640782' date='Jan 7 2009, 13.53']The royal party is described as "one hundred strong." This is not an overwhelming number of extras so depending on how thy intend to shoot the scene, they may actually have that many extras (or near to it) for the day's shoot (never mind the Stark extras). There are ways to shoot a smaller number of people to make them look like more - so they may use 50 extras and just cut away and reposition them, then cut back and then suddenly the 50 extras are being doubled into 100 extras - because the first group is standing in front of the stables, the second in front of the Library Tower, or whatever. The more the production team can do with tricks like this, the less $$ they need to spend on costuming, food, etc. for a large cast.

If you watch Dr. Who you might notice they seem to have tons of Cybermen extras in those episodes stomping around, but if you think about how it's being shot I don't think they have much more than 5 or 10 guys playing whole armies of them. They just shoot them from different angles, in different groups, etc. The Dr. and Rose look left, 10 cybermen coming their way, they look right 10 more coming that way, they look up and 5 more are stomping along a catwalk...it's not hard to make 10 guys in identical costumes look like 50 with some clever cutting.[/quote]

I assumed they would use these kind of camera tricks, especially for the pilot. Not every production can afford a Cecil B. DeMille-sized cast. Other than the individuals, like the Kingsguard, you could shoot it with 10 or 15 mounted guys, and suit them up in various ways for a visual difference between Knights and Sellswords, and none of the armor for it needs to be combat worthy, so it could be made cheaply and quickly.

[iheartseverus]

This has been interesting, reading everyone's input. EXCEPT for the few comments here and there that sort of mention casually in passing '... if the series doesn't get picked up' and suchlike. eeeek! If this pilot turns out as awesome as it now seems, and then we all sit here, waiting, waiting... *taps fingers impatiently* and it DOESN'T get picked up for a series? Blargh, I'd spend the rest of my life being depressed and disappointed, a sort of modern-day Brienne endlessly moping through life mourning her beloved Renly.

Anybody know a good spell? We can all hold virtual-cyber-hands and send waves of DO IT OR ELSE! PLEASE! thoughtwaves to the studio execs.

[Werthead]

Tower of the Hand has also posted a script review [url="http://www.towerofthehand.com/blog/2009/01/28_towers_take_on_the_script/index.html"]here[/url].

Seems to be the same version Brude and Winter-is-Coming saw, although they have more detailed information on character ages:

[quote]Will (20), Gared (50), Waymar Royce (18), Eddard Stark (40), Jon
Snow (17), Robb Stark (17), Bran (8), Theon Greyjoy (19), Jory Cassel
(30s), Hullen (40s), Daenerys (15), Viserys (20), Illyrio (50), Jorah
Mormont, Khal Drogo (30), Jon Arryn (60s), Grand Maester Pycelle (70s),
Cersei (30s, listed later as 32), Tyrion, Jaime Lannister (30s),
Maester Luwin (75), Catelyn Stark (35), Sansa (13), Arya (11), Rickon
(3), Joffrey Baratheon (13), Sandor Clegane (35), Robert Baratheon
(40s), Tommen (7), Myrcella (8), Benjen Stark (40s), Septa Mordane
(60s), Rodrik Cassel (60), Irri, Jaqui, Doreah[/quote]

What is interesting is that in that draft of the script, it is never mentioned that Cersei and Jaime are twins, or even brother and sister. Obviously that would need to be rectified sharpish for the final scene of the pilot to have its desired impact.