Accents

[Mister Manticore]

[quote name='Venardhi' post='1590835' date='Nov 16 2008, 13.44']There is nothing necessarily WRONG with using American accents, but it doesn't take us anywhere and frankly it doesn't suit the material, which goes out of its way to use decidedly non-American speech and slang.[/quote]

Who said anything about using American accents? I'm talking about not using accents. I want to watch a story, and to believe it, I'm not going to want to hear actors trying to sound one way or another.

That's distracting at best, a tragedy at worst.

[quote]Especially if they're going to be filming in Europe where natural accents are plentiful, I see no reason to squander it with making everyone 'Ohio-ify' their voices.[/quote]

OTOH, I see no reason to ruin the series by making everyone "British-ify" or "Frencherize" or "Scotsinate" their voices. You can apply the same standard to Texas, Boston, Australia, Russia, Japan or anywhere else.

That may work when your series is set in the real world, but this series isn't. Any adoption of accents will be nothing but a pretense, and I'm sorry but I'd rather they not waste their time on it.

Especially since they're not likely to get actors as good as Hugh Laurie. More than likely we'll get the Keanu Reeves and Dick van Dyke quality.

PS, Hercules didn't jar me out of its reality is the point. I hope the same applies to this series.

[Venardhi]

Firstly, don't smack talk Van Dyke if you know what's good for you kid. ;)

Secondly: The only thing that would be more jarring than contemporary American accents would be everyone using their own accent and ending up with such a motley crew of voices that your ear is having to constantly adjust to them. The most important part of that immersion I talked about above is consistency, if we establish that riverlanders talk a certain way and hold to it, then we become subconciously more convinced of the reality of the riverlands.

Perhaps we just have too different of outlooks on the matter to really find any middle ground.

[Venardhi]

And this is HBO/BBC, not The CW. The casts of their (more notably HBO's) shows are generally pretty brilliant. 'Deadwood' has probably the most impressive cast of any show I have ever seen.

[Mister Manticore]

[quote name='Venardhi' post='1590852' date='Nov 16 2008, 14.08']Firstly, don't smack talk Van Dyke if you know what's good for you kid. ;)[/quote]

If you can find a more consistently panned accent, feel free to use it as an example.

[quote]Secondly: The only thing that would be more jarring than contemporary American accents would be everyone using their own accent and ending up with such a motley crew of voices that your ear is having to constantly adjust to them. The most important part of that immersion I talked about above is consistency, if we establish that riverlanders talk a certain way and hold to it, then we become subconciously more convinced of the reality of the riverlands.[/quote]

Indeed, if we hear bad accents, or accents that make us think the guy just came off the boat from Liverpool(or even Texas!), then we become even less convinced of the reality.

Fortunately, I don't see all that much emphasis on accents in the books, so it's relatively easy to avoid. There's a few bits, but for the most part, Martin seems to have avoided waxing eloquently on the subject, so it's no real great bother if it doesn't come up in production. Not like he's not using the "They all speak the same language" hand-waving for Westeros anyway.

How they intend to handle Dany and Dothraki (or Valyrian) I don't imagine we'll know for a while yet.

[quote]Perhaps we just have too different of outlooks on the matter to really find any middle ground.[/quote]

Not that any of us is in any way connected to the casting decisions involved anyway.

[quote]And this is HBO/BBC, not The CW. The casts of their (more notably HBO's) shows are generally pretty brilliant. 'Deadwood' has probably the most impressive cast of any show I have ever seen.[/quote]

I have seen many otherwise great actors/actresses fail when it comes to accents. And I've heard some bad things about True Blood's accents.

[Venardhi]

Of course not . . . . . ;)

[ogbebaba]

[quote name='Mister Manticore' post='1590863' date='Nov 16 2008, 16.18']I have seen many otherwise great actors/actresses fail when it comes to accents. And I've heard some bad things about True Blood's accents.[/quote]

my family moved to Venice La when i was 7 months old and now i live in Lafayette every coonass or cajun that i have watched true blood with laughes there ass off when the rene charactor talks and thinks the rest of the accents are horable the cajun guy from all the adam sandler movies is more belavable

[silmarilli]

I always imagined the Starks North American and the Lannisters English. I also imagined the Targaryens with slightly Eastern European accents. Pretty random I guess, I don't know where I got any of these.

[caspian]

[quote name='Mister Manticore' post='1590850' date='Nov 16 2008, 15.01'][color="#C0C0C0"]
Who said anything about using American accents? I'm talking about not using accents. I want to watch a story, and to believe it, I'm not going to want to hear actors trying to sound one way or another.

That's distracting at best, a tragedy at worst.

[/color]

OTOH, I see no reason to ruin the series by making everyone "British-ify" or "Frencherize" or "Scotsinate" their voices. You can apply the same standard to Texas, Boston, Australia, Russia, Japan or anywhere else.

[color="#C0C0C0"]That may work when your series is set in the real world, but this series isn't. Any adoption of accents will be nothing but a pretense, and I'm sorry but I'd rather they not waste their time on it.

Especially since they're not likely to get actors as good as Hugh Laurie. More than likely we'll get the Keanu Reeves and Dick van Dyke quality.

PS, Hercules didn't jar me out of its reality is the point. I hope the same applies to this series.[/color][/quote]

Yeah, it probably would be a little too much to ask of the actors to force an accurate regional accent when it doesn't come naturally to them. Just have them speak British English whenever possible, I say. It seems to be the default Medieval accent that works best in film, anyway. It can be really distracting when you hear a twangy American voice in a scene taking place in the Middle Ages. I mean, at least the English were around in the Middle Ages, ya know? If you want an idea of how bad an American twang can be in a period piece, just watch John Malkovich's scenes in "The Messenger," James Franco in "Tristan and Isolde," Keanu Reeves in "Dracula," Kevin Costner and half the cast of Prince of Thieves, or Brad Pitt's sketchy attempt at a British accent in "Troy."

Also, since the majority of the actors will most likely have British accents, an American accent would sound especially out of place. There are very few American actors who are successful at sounding British, and most Americans' efforts at effecting a British accent can be equally distracting at times. I think that was one of the reasons J.K. Rowling insisted on all the actors in the Potter movies being British.

I'm sure there are American actors who have enough talent for the audience to suspend their disbelief, but they are rare.

[Mister Manticore]

[quote name='caspian' post='1590956' date='Nov 16 2008, 16.19']Yeah, it probably would be a little too much to ask of the actors to force an accurate regional accent when it doesn't come naturally to them. Just have them speak British English whenever possible, I say. It seems to be the default Medieval accent that works best in film, anyway. It can be really distracting when you hear a twangy American voice in a scene taking place in the Middle Ages. I mean, at least the English were around in the Middle Ages, ya know?[/quote]

No, as we covered earlier in the thread, they weren't actually speaking like the British of today speak. As such, that has minimal appeal, since it's not authentic, but merely an affectation.

[quote]If you want an idea of how bad an American twang can be in a period piece, just watch John Malkovich's scenes in "The Messenger," James Franco in "Tristan and Isolde," Keanu Reeves in "Dracula," Kevin Costner and half the cast of Prince of Thieves, or Brad Pitt's sketchy attempt at a British accent in "Troy."[/quote]

I'm pretty sure at least half of those examples tried for accents, and serve more as a reason for the attempt to be avoided than a problem with the American accent.

Not that we have to worry about any of them being cast anyway.

[quote]Also, since the majority of the actors will most likely have British accents, an American accent would sound especially out of place.[/quote]

Why? Do you know something about the casting the rest of us don't?

[quote]I think that was one of the reasons J.K. Rowling insisted on all the actors in the Potter movies being British.[/quote]

I think it was more likely that her work was set in the more or less modern-day UK. This same standard does not apply to ASOIAF. George R.R. Martin isn't even a British author. Maybe we should have people speak in his native Jersey accent! And others can speak like they're from Illinois! Or New Mexico!

[Aoede]

[quote name='Mister Manticore' post='1591091' date='Nov 16 2008, 19.51']No, as we covered earlier in the thread, they weren't actually speaking like the British of today speak. As such, that has minimal appeal, since it's not authentic, but merely an affectation.


[. . . .]


I think it was more likely that her work was set in the more or less modern-day UK. This same standard does not apply to ASOIAF. George R.R. Martin isn't even a British author. Maybe we should have people speak in his native Jersey accent! And others can speak like they're from Illinois! Or New Mexico![/quote]

1. [i]Thank[/i] you for acknowledging the pronunciation shift.

2. LOL NJ ACCENT, [i]LO QUIERO[/i]. But okay. Perhaps the best way around this dilemma is to [i]rewrite all dialogue in appropriate-sounding conlangs[/i]. Then linguists can get involved as well! And then it would be plenty cheap to have differing BrE/AmE subtitles.

[Mister Manticore]

[quote name='Aoede' post='1591123' date='Nov 16 2008, 19.34']2. LOL NJ ACCENT, [i]LO QUIERO[/i]. But okay. Perhaps the best way around this dilemma is to [i]rewrite all dialogue in appropriate-sounding conlangs[/i]. Then linguists can get involved as well! And then it would be plenty cheap to have differing BrE/AmE subtitles.[/quote]

Sounds expensive. Let's just have them not speak. Pantomime for the win.

[Aoede]

[quote name='Mister Manticore' post='1591125' date='Nov 16 2008, 20.40']Sounds expensive. Let's just have them not speak. Pantomime for the win.[/quote]

Okay, dump the linguists and just have the actors shout pure spontaneous gibberish-sounds at each other, but [i]in the correct intonation[/i]. Subtitle. The audience will never know!

[Mister Manticore]

Nah, too much work. Mute actors are much cheaper. Plus they can't tell secrets if they don't have tongues. Let's just have midi music to set the emotional overtones. Who has a synthesizer??

[Aoede]

[quote name='Mister Manticore' post='1591132' date='Nov 16 2008, 20.48']Nah, too much work. Mute actors are much cheaper. Plus they can't tell secrets if they don't have tongues. Let's just have midi music to set the emotional overtones. Who has a synthesizer??[/quote]

Even better idea: Display the book on a enormous Kindle reader and have the midi music playing in the background. A lackey or two could sit behind the screen and scream/hit each other at appropriate moments.

[caspian]

[quote name='Mister Manticore' post='1591091' date='Nov 16 2008, 19.51']No, as we covered earlier in the thread, they weren't actually speaking like the British of today speak. As such, that has minimal appeal, since it's not authentic, but merely an affectation.[/quote]
You seem unfamiliar with the concept of "tongue in cheek."

[quote]I'm pretty sure at least half of those examples tried for accents, and serve more as a reason for the attempt to be avoided than a problem with the American accent.[/quote]
Attempted and failed miserably, because they were incapable of pulling it off. Hence my reasoning for avoiding them when possible.

[quote]Not that we have to worry about any of them being cast anyway.[/quote]
Umm yeah, no kidding.

[quote]Why? Do you know something about the casting the rest of us don't?[/quote] :rolleyes:

[quote][color="#C0C0C0"]I think it was more likely that her work was set in the more or less modern-day UK. This same standard does not apply to ASOIAF. [/color]George R.R. Martin isn't even a British author. Maybe we should have people speak in his native Jersey accent! And others can speak like they're from Illinois! Or New Mexico![/quote]
Lighten up, Francis.

[ogbebaba]

[quote name='caspian' post='1591242' date='Nov 17 2008, 00.56']Lighten up, Francis.[/quote]

:lmao:
thank you i don't believe i have ever actually read or herd a Stripes quote

[Mister Manticore]

[quote name='caspian' post='1591242' date='Nov 16 2008, 22.56']:rolleyes:[/quote]

So I guess you don't then?

Ah well, try to lighten up yourself. You seem to be getting a little harsh.

[Morrigan]

[quote name='Black Wizard' post='1590608' date='Nov 16 2008, 08.09']I took that as you were calling Aussies Europeans. They wouldn't like that (even though the white ones technically are).[/quote]
You misread me. Strange, even after re-reading and bolding... hmm. Here is, again, what I said:

"I absolutely do not want to hear any North American accent. I don't know why, but characters in a medieval-like settings speaking American just doesn't work. [b]British, Irish, Scottish, Aussie,[/b] [i]or "foreign" European accents such as Swedish, Russian, or even Spanish or hell, French[/i], fine by me... but no Yankees or Canucks, please!"

So. I said I don't want North American accents. I say that British, Irish, Scottish or Aussie accents are fine. And then, I add that "foreign" (e.g. non-English speaking) European accents such as Swedish, Russian, Spanish or French are fine with me, as well (note the use of a comma and a "or").

I don't know why you would think I was listing the Australians amongst the Europeans, since I clearly name them BEFORE listing a bunch of European nationalities, which I even specified as "foreign" (which meant "non English speaking", or "speaking English as second language", in the context of this discussion). Oh well.

[ulix]

As a non-native-speaker I'd have to agree with what most people here already said:
British accents just fit better in terms of a medieval fantasy-setting.

Though I have to say that the American accents in "Legend of the Seeker" didn't disturb me as much as the New-Zealand accents that sometimes shine through for some of the minor characters. I mean especially the phoneme [e] that sometimes becomesthe phoneme [i]?
But still, please no American twang. And no New-Zealand or Australian one for that matter.

I guess mild accents are okay, and if it is more or less neutral, lightly American English I could live with it, something somewhere between r-less and r-full, but with [a] instead of [ae] and [o] instead of [a] (or something in between - which would make it sound more British). I don't know how people speak in New England, but judging from its name I'd say that its local twang would probably come closest to my idea.

Note that I don't have the appropriate (aka correct) phonetic symbols - or I'm just too lazy to look them up.

[Aoede]

[quote name='Mister Manticore' post='1591802' date='Nov 17 2008, 14.36']You may wish to listen to recordings of speakers from New England to be sure.

Especially since there's more than one accent to be found there.[/quote]

How about the accent that Marc Warren has as Jonathan Teatime in [i]Hogfather[/i]? Just without the high-pitched... freakiness. I mean, the rest of the cast had British accents and I didn't even notice that his was different... although that may admittedly have been due, in part, to aforementioned high-pitched freakiness. It was only afterwards, reading about the adaptation online, that I found out that he'd been using a New England accent - and then I had to go back and watch it again just to make sure.