Axed Characters

[phoenix_rising]

Ok , as we all know , some(many) characters will be held out of the festivities.(series)

Despite how most of us feel, it will be a necessary evil. :devil:

Which characters can we afford to lose and why?





Let the carnage begin...

[Ser Greguh]

One of the primary challenges in translating the series to television will be dealing with characters who are in the background for the beginning of a series and catapult into the foreground at a later time. An author can do this with impunity, but a television show has real trouble. You either have to spend the money getting a talented actor that is willing to be in the background for, say, a season, and only get a meaty part later on, or have some third-billing actor who was hired for a part that had one or two lines and hope they have the chops for the meat they encounter later on.

An example of this in AGOT would be Theon. He really doesn't do much in the first book - there's the one scene in the wolfswood, and not much more that focuses on him - but of course he is absolutely integral to the plot of Book 2. Gendry is another example. We meet him very briefly in AGOT but he only has the one scene, before becoming much more important later on. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see neither character in S1 of the show. I'd probably prefer that to a "subtle" casting change occurring, which is another option.

Many of the background characters will probably not be named explicitly, though we may not necessarily be sure they're NOT there. I imagine that, for example, in Robb's entourage, we'll become familiar with the Greatjon, Roose Bolton, and Rickard Karstark, but doubt we'll be seeing much of the Manderlys and Glovers and Flints and Cerwyns and Tallharts or that they'll have any speaking parts. Maige and Dacey Mormont may get the axe (although Jorah needs to stay, and so that may spare them).

Similarly with the King's Court. We may see a black dude hanging in the background somewhere and can assume that it's Jalabar Xho, but I doubt he'll be named explicitly.

All that may suck for us but a huge aspect of the marketability of the show will be ensuring that it isn't overwhelming to viewers unfamiliar with the books. HBO has a huge tolerance for this (consider [i]The Wire[/i]) and mass cast shows like [i]Heroes[/i] have shown a large cast can be compatible with success, but even they have a limit. I think most of the main characters will remain intact, but many of the flavor characters will have to be neutralized.

[Ran]

[quote]Ok , as we all know ,[/quote]

We know nothing.

There's going to be over 10 hours of film given over to just AGoT. I don't forsee anyone of any note being dropped.

[spikebrennan]

[quote name='Ran' post='1589236' date='Nov 14 2008, 13.20']We know nothing.

There's going to be over 10 hours of film given over to just AGoT. I don't forsee anyone of any note being dropped.[/quote]

The issue isn't so much whether there's enough [u]time [/u]for all of the characters, it's whether the audience will be able to [u]tell them apart[/u]. The typical viewer is basically going to see a bunch of long-haired guys in armor (or period costume). Maybe some of them will have some really obvious characteristics that set them apart from other characters (okay, Jaime and Cersei are the blond ones, and Tyrion's the dwarf, and Hound is the really freaking ugly dude), but a lot of the others are going to be hard for a viewer to distinguish. Some people may catch on that the costumes are color-coded in accordance with the various houses, but even that will only go so far-- in the pilot, how are you going to tell, say Robb Stark, Jon Snow and Theon Greyjoy apart from one another? They're all white guys who are around the same age.

[phoenix_rising]

[quote name='Ran' post='1589236' date='Nov 14 2008, 11.20']We know nothing.

There's going to be over 10 hours of film given over to just AGoT. I don't forsee anyone of any note being dropped.[/quote]


Flashes of Mel going off :D

10 film hours is quite a bit , and these books are Ginormis . Both in depth and scope . It's going to be interesting to see the level of adaptation(condensation).

Jalabar Xho would be one of my axed characters. Does he do anything for the story?(yet)

[Ran]

[quote]Robb Stark, Jon Snow and Theon Greyjoy[/quote]

People are not that hopelessly stupid, man. If this is the sort of concern driving the idea that you have to cut out important characters, well, it's not going to be an issue.

I don't think any important primary or secondary character will be cut, for my part. I believe minor characters mentioned by name could just be generalized, as others have noted -- maybe that knight with the monkey on his shoulder is Mark Mullendore, but no one calls him that, and in the credits he's just "Knight with a monkey". Simple enough.

But no primary character is going to be cut, I imagine, and I can't think of any significant secondary characters who are likely to be cut.

[Jakob Lightbringer]

Rodrik Cassel and Jory Cassel, Hullen and Harwin -- could probably be condensed into just two -- or perhaps even one supporting character -- if you let Maester Luwin help out.
Septa Mordane and Old Nan could be amalgamated into a single gossipy old nurse.
As much as it pains me to say it, Ilyn Payne and Sandor Clegane could probably be condensed together -- though this would have some interesting consequences later on.

[Oorag]

I agree with those that Jakob mentions. I also think that there will only be one major mountain clansmen companion Tyrion, probably heavily based on Shagga. Petyr's freerider thug whose name completely escapes me will probably just be a variety of nameless goons. I'm guessing that some of the lesser kingsguard will become glorified extras. Doreah, the pleasure slave handmaiden will probably get axed. No Smalljon. One or no female Mormonts. Maybe Olenna will take over completely for Mace Tyrell when they eventually show up. Black Walder and Lame Lothar could be consilidated into one.

[The.Hound]

[quote name='Jakob Lightbringer' post='1589417' date='Nov 14 2008, 15.20']Rodrik Cassel and Jory Cassel, Hullen and Harwin -- could probably be condensed into just two -- or perhaps even one supporting character -- if you let Maester Luwin help out.
Septa Mordane and Old Nan could be amalgamated into a single gossipy old nurse.
As much as it pains me to say it, Ilyn Payne and Sandor Clegane could probably be condensed together -- though this would have some interesting consequences later on.[/quote]

That makes sense, except for the part about Sandor and Ser Ilyn, that would actually change the story a lot, since he'd be the one shortening Eddard by a head.

[Ser Bruce the Hound KG]

[quote name='The.Hound' post='1589721' date='Nov 14 2008, 17.46']That makes sense, except for the part about Sandor and Ser Ilyn, that would actually change the story a lot, since he'd be the one shortening Eddard by a head.[/quote]
Sanssa whole schoolgirl crush would have to change and it a fan favorite

[Rinso]

[quote name='The.Hound' post='1589772' date='Nov 14 2008, 21.46']That makes sense, except for the part about Sandor and Ser Ilyn, that would actually change the story a lot, since he'd be the one shortening Eddard by a head.[/quote]

[quote name='serdog' post='1589772' date='Nov 14 2008, 23.17']Sanssa whole schoolgirl crush would have to change and it a fan favorite[/quote]

Not to mention that in AFFC when Sandor is

SPOILER: AFFC

already reported as dead

Ser Ilyn is part of Jaime's host and they practice swords together which is pretty important for Jaime's character and POV.

Really, it would be harder to change all the existing story than to cast some nobody in the role of Ser Ilyn. He wouldn't have a single line, all he has to do is look creepy.

[Ouroboros]

Getting rid of Ilyn Payne and merging the role with Sandor is a very bad idea on so many levels its amazing anyone would even suggest it. It not only affects Sansa's character, and Jaime's for that matter, but it mars Ned's character and Robert's, in regards to their views on capital punishment. 'The one who passes the sentence should carry it out' and all that. Ned is disgusting by the fact that Robert relies on Payne to do what he does, and the fact that Payne is a mute highlights Robert's desire not to be involved in such things. Ilyne Payne is a perfect example of Robert's negligence and why he's a bad king.

And Sandor is Joffrey's bodyguard, you can't have your executioner also serving as your son's bodyguard, it'd just be strange, he would be too busy protecting the crown-prince to go off executing poor fools for stealing chickens and all that.

[psim]

Well, HBO has a pretty good track record of series with huge casts where minor players from the early seasons emerge to play major roles later on. Just watch The Sopranos of The Wire, it happens a lot there, especially with Tony's crew and adversaries.

[Jon_Nieve]

Maybe...Syrio Forel?

[Aoede]

Battle Royale managed with a big cast (of young actors, take note!) in two hours of story, not counting the ones who were basically Dead Upon Appearance.

[psim]

Yeah, that's a tough one... I guess Syrio isn't really all that essential to the story, unless, as speculated by many, he gets to return big time in the upcoming books (or any of the jaqen=syrio theories is right). Also without the "dancing" storyline Arya really wouldn't have much to do, so that job would have to be taken by another character.
Looking back at what I just wrote he just might be pretty essential after all... :)

[Sir Thursday]

[quote name='Jon_Nieve' post='1590119' date='Nov 15 2008, 18.22']Maybe...Syrio Forel?[/quote]

I can't see that happening myself, because someone has to teach Arya how to handle a sword. I suppose she could pick it up later, but it seems like she'll have to be doing something when she's at King's Landing, it might as well be some fun sword stuff.


Sir Thursday

[Night Watchman]

Ser Ilyn and The Hound should totally be merged into one. Also, who the hell thought it would be a good idea to have Ned and Robert as seperate characters? They should definately get merged together. Sansa and Arya? Sanrya! Oh, and we can't forget Aryon (Arya/Jon)...so Sanryon. We can merge Sanryon with Ilyound to get Sanilyroundyon. Since Sanilyroundyon kills Nobert Barathestark they can be merged, oh we should add some Rob in there because Rob and Robert have almost the same name...so lets see we now have NobSanilybertoundrobyon Barathesnowstarkpagan...screw it, lets merge the whole cast.!

[psim]

[quote name='Night Watchman' post='1590140' date='Nov 15 2008, 14.42']Ser Ilyn and The Hound should totally be merged into one. Also, who the hell thought it would be a good idea to have Ned and Robert as seperate characters? They should definately get merged together. Sansa and Arya? Sanrya! Oh, and we can't forget Aryon (Arya/Jon)...so Sanryon. We can merge Sanryon with Ilyound to get Sanilyroundyon. Since Sanilyroundyon kills Nobert Barathestark they can be merged, oh we should add some Rob in there because Rob and Robert have almost the same name...so lets see we now have NobSanilybertoundrobyon Barathesnowstarkpagan...screw it, lets merge the whole cast.![/quote]
Yeah I can see it, the whole thing's just playing out in the head of this one crazy guy. He just makes it all up... let's call him George..

[Matarreyes]

We will probably be able to kill some theories from this board based on which secondary characters are there and which are not. If Syrio Forel gets no name (just some sword teacher) all his conspiracy theories are probably crap. If scriptwriters had only 1 book to go by, Theon himself would look pretty offable. Does nothing at all. Since GRRM is supposedly a bit involved in this, he could probably pass on warnings like don´t write him off, you will need him later on.

The Main Theory R+L=J could get stronger or weaker depending on the presence/ shooting of the Tower of Joy scene. Think of it: only the important parts will get on screen, and some red herrings will get offed. We will get another source of spoilers this way!