The New New NFL thread

[add-on]

What an absurd game. We in no way deserved the win.

Take that, Wisconsin.

[awesome possum]

If the Bears somehow make it into the playoffs, they'll be lucky just to be embarrassed. Unless of course the team somehow remembers that they're supposed to play all four quarters and not just select amounts of time. Is there a more inconsistent team in the NFL?

Seeing the hated Packers lose was worth it, though. OK, I do feel a little sorry for Aaron Rodgers. Guy is a quality player on a team that just doesn't seem to care now that the geriatric circus has moved to the coast.

Now if only the even more hated Vikings can be trounced by the Giants.

[Whiskeyjack]

[quote name='add-on' post='1628456' date='Dec 22 2008, 23.00']What an absurd game. We in no way deserved the win.

Take that, Wisconsin.[/quote]

Completely agree. That's the 2nd week in a row that the Bears have somehow managed to scrape out an overtime win, against all odds. Crazy game.

Too bad they'll blow it with a loss in Houston next week.

[Jaime L]

[quote name='add-on' post='1628456' date='Dec 23 2008, 00.00']What an absurd game. We in no way deserved the win.

Take that, Wisconsin.[/quote]

Yeah, I'm still of the impression the Packers completely outplayed 'em. Rodgers played well in tough conditions. Still not sure how the Bears scored each time. And seemed like Orton did everything in his power to blow it. Can't tell if that's a function of good coaching by Lovie. Or just a mentally tougher team.

Think it's also a classic example of how Rodgers continues to get hosed by his own team. He did everything you can expect a QB to do, again, and now is one step closer to a probable 6 win season. Makes him look half as good as Favre when really he's outplayed him most of the year, and doubly so in the cold. Life just ain't fair.

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Whiskeyjack' post='1628463' date='Dec 23 2008, 00.15']Completely agree. That's the 2nd week in a row that the Bears have somehow managed to scrape out an overtime win, against all odds. Crazy game.

Too bad they'll blow it with a loss in Houston next week.[/quote]

While I disagree with nothing, I would be remiss in pointing out that they seem to have led some sort of charmed existence and that they should have lost these last two games...why assume they're going to lose in Texas now?

Kyle Orton's never going to be a great QB ( :cry: ), but if he ever gets a WR or two to go along with Forte, a lot of his flaws might be hidden a little better...

[Whiskeyjack]

[quote name='Jaxom 1974' post='1628478' date='Dec 22 2008, 23.49']While I disagree with nothing, I would be remiss in pointing out that they seem to have led some sort of charmed existence and that they should have lost these last two games...[/quote]

Where was that charmed existence in the games they blew against Atlanta, Carolina, and Tampa Bay earlier in the season?


[quote]why assume they're going to lose in Texas now?[/quote]

Because I think Houston has the better team.

If they win, I'll be happy. But I'm not expecting it.

[Jaxom 1974]

[quote name='Whiskeyjack' post='1628481' date='Dec 23 2008, 01.03']Where was that charmed existence in the games they blew against Atlanta, Carolina, and Tampa Bay earlier in the season?[/quote]


Seeing that they've been a team playing above their heads all year, those games ended as they should have...

Now they're merely on the brink, rather than in control and it's just enough of the carrot at the end of the stick to make the general, slobbering masses think, "HOLY SHIT WE'RE GONNA DO IT! PLAYOFFS AND THEN ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN AND THAT MEANS SUPERBOWL, BABY!"

It's a properly sad Chicago Sports theme, you know?


[quote name='Whiskeyjack' post='1628481' date='Dec 23 2008, 01.03']Because I think Houston has the better team.

If they win, I'll be happy. But I'm not expecting it.[/quote]

I'm not expecting it either. I didn't expect tonight or last week either. It's somehow charmed that they'll pull something out and win, but then Minnesota will win too so it'll all be moot.

[smegma]

I was at the Bears game last night. Holy frigid. I'm also recovering from surgery so no booze to keep me warm. I was miserable for about 3.2 quarters because of how listless the Bears looked, but when they finally showed life it was all worthwhile.

I can't believe with this team, with this QB and these WR's we are even sniffing the playoffs. I remember back in pre season there was talk of us going 4 and 12 or thereabouts. I think we've definitely had a charmed season, beating teams that have far more talent than we do thus far and who knows, maybe we'll have a spark of life against Houston next week. I'm not holding my breath, but I'm still excited that we're even in contention. C'mon Giants!

[Rockroi]

[quote]Is there a more inconsistent team in the NFL?[/quote]

Denver; maybe San Deigo. Add in the Bucs and maybe even the Cardinals. Inconsistency seems to be a running theme this season.

[quote]OK, I do feel a little sorry for Aaron Rodgers.[/quote]

So do I. I think the Pack have the better QB in the Rogers/Favre controversey (all his numbers are superior to Brett), and Rogers has been on the recieving end of some pretty bad playing by his special teams and the D. Apparently, this is the 8th time this season Rogers has had the chance to win the game for the Packers on the Packers' final offensive possesion. In a game against Carolina and Jacksonville, Rogers was able to engineer drives that ended in field goals, but the GB Defense gave up late scores in both those games; against Minn, Crosby naroly missed a 52 yard FG (which, I will grant you, is absolutely no gimmie). Then, last night, he drives them deep into Bears territory only to see the winning FG blocked. Rogers' numbers are better than solid- 63% connect rate; 3700 yards passing and almost getting 2 TDs for every 1 INT with 25 to 13 respectively.

The issue is that bad teams always seem to find a way to lose. And the Packers are a bad team. Their special team woes are not endemic; just glicthes. Finally, their D is putrid (22nd overall, 26th against the Rush). Not much he can do there.

[Space Bandito]

[url="http://www.ryanparkersongs.com/"]Pennington is Coming to Town . . . [/url]

[quote]We're gonna find out if New York's got regrets,
For putting Brett Favre in charge of the Jets,
Cause Pennington is coming to town,

It's Christmas for Chad cause he gets to face,
The quarterback by which he was replaced,
Yeah Pennington is coming to town,

He knows about Mangini,
He's protected by big Jake,
They wondered if Chad's bad or good,
Well he's good for goodness sake,[/quote]

It is going to be seriously hard to cheer for the Jets. I also don't think winning against the Bills in December is going to be easy.

[Rockroi]

[quote]It is going to be seriously hard to cheer for the Jets. I also don't think winning against the Bills in December is going to (be) easy.[/quote]

YUP! The secret problem here is that the Bills are in no way a gimmie game. I was listening to Belichick last night on teh radio and he made some legitimate comments on how good teh Bills are (says that they are front to back the best special teams squad in the NFL).

And then there is the fact that ever since August, I have been seceretly rooting for Chad. I think he got dicked around; I think he was a victim here, and instead of whinning and belly-aching, he did the best he could and - Lo and Behold, his team is poised to make the playoffs. And, apparently, in a contest between two teams I despise, I apparently hate the Dolphins a little less than the Jets (and their inbred fans). Now, don't get me wrong, I want the Dolphins to lose, but in my "best of both words" universe, Chad will go 26-30, 320, 4TD 0INT, Favre will go 10-21, 210, 1 TD 4INTs and somehow the Jets will still win.

Is that asking for too much? Okay, what if Favre only throws 2 picks?

[mcbigski]

Kind of surprised how many people were calling for Mangini's head on WFAN this morning and yesterday. You can't do a direct plug in and replacement, but if somehow the Jets had a QB who had thrown a dozen less INTs this season, they could have had another win or two right now.

Blame should fall on the GM for cutting Pennington. Which I am thankful for.

Also, I'm taking this season as proof of my preseason assertion that Tom Brady is the most overrated quarterback in the league. He's an above average QB who played for a great coach on a great team with great receivers and very solid O line. From a sabermetric point of view, Cassel was pretty much the text book definition of 'Replacement Player' at the start of the season, and NE is 10-5. It's far more likely to me that the rest of the team is that good, rather than that the Pats just happened to have the best quarterback in the league and a back up who is 11th in the league in QB rating based on his ability, rather than circumstance.

The proof will be in comparing how Cassel (or Brady) performs next season on another team.

[Rockroi]

[quote]Also, I'm taking this season as proof of my preseason assertion that Tom Brady is the most overrated quarterback in the league. He's an above average QB who played for a great coach on a great team with great receivers and very solid O line. From a sabermetric point of view, Cassel was pretty much the text book definition of 'Replacement Player' at the start of the season, and NE is 10-5. It's far more likely to me that the rest of the team is that good, rather than that the Pats just happened to have the best quarterback in the league and a back up who is 11th in the league in QB rating based on his ability, rather than circumstance.

The proof will be in comparing how Cassel (or Brady) performs next season on another team.[/quote]

Oh thank God! This thread was becoming so boring. Everyone agreeing, no controversey, a bunch of dorks talking stats... blah blah blah! I mena, you KNOW an NFL thread is doomed whne the most controversal thing said in the last month was wether or not Thigpen is a decent QB.

Thankfully, we have ONE person willing to stick his head out and say something remarkable so that this thread does not seep into complete mediocrity.

Tom Brady - we know as pure fact - was worth AT LEAST 5 wins last season to the Pats. How do I know this? because the Pats are now 10-5 when last season they were 15-0. And there have been virtually no other changes to the team (other than, of course, horrifying injuries on D). Thus, if he is "above average" than Cassell must fucking suck. Which, he might.

No other QB has been able to furnish the season Tom did last year; Manning and Marino are the only other 2 QBs in the discussion. Hence, when your ONLy other company is Marino and Peyton Manning, you are really, really good. "Above Average" QBs do not put up those types of numbers. Mark Rypen didn't; Dante Culpepper didn't; Drew Bledsoe didn't. In other words, you have to be really special to manage that type pf production.

And it was never just one season; Brady has proven time and time again that he can just flat out win games. Lets also not forget that Randy Moss and Wes Welker are the best two WRs Brady has ever thrown to (Troy Brown was actaully really really good as well, soi can see that). And yet, somehow, Brady managed to win 3 SBs with many ho-hum talent level WRs. David Patten, Deion Branch (who never ever came on in Seattle), and David Givens to name a few. He laso has 2 SB MVPs (and I am willing to admit that he really did NOt deserve the first one- I always thought Ty Law should have gotten it; but I also think that he should have got it for the 3rd SB so it all evens out).

I think that there is a reason no other QB has been able to repeat the domiannce of Manning and Brady, and one part of that is that they are truly special players. Yes, both did require talent at other positions, but don't make it sound like Manning, Rivers, Breese and Favre have a bunch of midgets at WR and that their coaches are all wearing speacial helmets and drool on themselves. Hell, Cassel has had a GREAT season, with almost the EXACT same set of offensive tools, and STILl has only managed to be half the QB Brady has. I think many of the great QBs playing today would have done better; NONE would have been able to reproduce Brady's 2007 season with the lone exception being Peyton Manning. Which is fine because I also think that if Brady and Manning switched teams they would have both still had comporable careeres. I think last season and this season proved that- take away the talented WR corps that Manning had and he puts up a Brady-like year; give Brady the talent that Manning alwyas had and he had a Manning-like season.

Brady's abilities are well established- a terriffic arm, acurate all the time, ability to improvise, confidence,. and the best pocket presence I have ever seen (he is not fast the way McNabb, Culpepper or Vick were in the pocket, but he KNOWS when to step up and release the ball with unflinching poise). If you put one of the current big names on the Pats 2001-2007 No way in HELL they have as good of a season (the only exception being Manning).

Again- numbers speak for themselves: he has passing titles, TD records, MVPs, SB MVPs, etc. His QB rating is always very good (last season it was obscene). I fail to see any proof in that he is just an above average QB in a great "system." I mean, if that was the case, Dante Culpepper shgould have heald every QB record when he was throwing to Moss and Carter; same for Rypien when throwing to Monk, Sanders and Clark. Now, both were really good those seasons, but neither had long term success. See a trend?

[Space Bandito]

[quote name='mcbigski' post='1628909' date='Dec 23 2008, 12.36']The proof will be in comparing how Cassel (or Brady) performs next season on another team.[/quote]

Each season is different. Different teams, schedules etc. Yet, the Proof is that Brady owns three Super Bowl rings. But hey, Belichick is evil and a cheater etc. Brady is overrated blah blah blah. Whatever makes you feel good.

[grozeng]

I was in the Brady is a good QB on a great team camp until last year. He proved last year that he is a great QB. Sure he has great WRs around him, but what he did last year was incredible.

But what do I know. According to Rockroi I'm just an "inbred fan"

Also, did people see the video of Ellis throwing snow into the stands? Drug possession one week and throwing snow the next. Someone is going to get a really good DE next year when the Jets cut him (for 12 games at least since he will probably be suspended).