Jump to content

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

shewolf85

Hello Peter Jackson

Recommended Posts

The director of Deadwood? There were several, but a guy like [url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0080601/"]Edward Bianchi[/url] might be a good choice. Or maybe [url="http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0887700/"]Timothy Van Patten[/url]? Those two might be realistic suggestions. Remember, we're talking about television here (Or HBO ;)), film directors are out of the question...as far as I know.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='b09boy' post='1599682' date='Nov 25 2008, 20.58']Heh, actually I think you're missing my point. It's not so much that Jackson changed little bits and pieces, but that he changed them for the WORSE. Making key characters into a cliche, ruining the pacing of climactic scenes and adding in or over-focusing on sections to bring in so much drama that it's almost embarassing to watch. The man killed his own movie for repeat viewing just because you see something annoying which ruins a section after every repeat viewing. Example: the rain in Helm's Deep turns on and off throughout the battle, including scene cuts within the battle.

There are plenty of directors who will follow the source material much worse than Jackson. There are also many who won't and many of those many know how to not screw up everything from individual scenes to entire sections of film with piss poor choices ranging from editing to design to script changes.[/quote]

You've obviously never lived in a place with weather that changes throughout the day. We have a saying: "If you don't like the weather here just wait 10 minutes". Turning the rain on and off didn't even register as an issue for me as that sort of thing is a natural phenomenon where I'm from. I call it nitpicking for no good reason other than to find ways to criticise, if you are going to cite things like inconsistent rain between scenes that viewers would regard as being coincident.

Criticise the bits that really matter. If the example you choose to cite is rain at Helms Deep then I say you don't have much of a case.

Don't make me laugh with the editing criticism. Say what you will about academy awards for fluffy stuff, but if a movie gets voted as the best editing job for the year by the best editors in the business, who are you to say it was a crap job? Even nomination for the editing award puts a movie beyond the credulous criticism of mere plebs such as we.

Faithfulness to story aside, the LOTR movies are widely acclaimed for their technical production values by those who work in the relevant fields. Your criticisms of technical elements are risible.

By any measure you care to name LOTR is an unqualified success in movie-making. Even among those who have read and enjoy the books the majority opinion is that it was a job well done.

There might be a handful of directors who could do a better job of directing ASoIAF than Jackson. So spare me the "ooooh keep him away, he'd ruin it!!!" crap. Besides, from a faithfulness to story perspective it is Benioff and Weiss you need to keep an eye on first and foremost.

I get the impression that movie directing and TV directing are different disciplines though. And it would be better to obtain the services of a reputable TV series director than a reputable movie director, even if the movie director is one of the best around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Vendetto' post='1601501' date='Nov 27 2008, 16.00']Jackson's also working on the Halo: Chronicles game as well as the movie.[/quote]

I thought the movie was well and truly on the shelf for now. The only movies I know about that are being actively worked on are Dambusters, Tintin and Lovely Bones. They have moved significant resource into the game scene.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Peter Jackson sucks as a director. Just look at King Kong. It's so bad it actually overshadows his good work on LotR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Eh that's your opinion on his directing ability, and no the Halo movie is still being worked on by Wingnut Studios, preproduction stuff. Halo is too much of a money maker for them to quit working on it altogether.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='PestilencE' post='1606687' date='Dec 3 2008, 11.32']Peter Jackson sucks as a director. Just look at King Kong. It's so bad it actually overshadows his good work on LotR.[/quote]

Yeah, that's why he's a multi-award winning director, because he sucks at it. Uou do know you've contradicted yourself in the space of 3 sentences.

I do agree however that Kong was not great, I think he was a little too self indulgent with the movie, so he didn't discipline himself, and since it was HIS baby no one else was going to discipline him. Still, his self indulgent work made a profit, so the studio couldn't really complain.

[quote name='Vendetto' post='1607084' date='Dec 3 2008, 17.29']Eh that's your opinion on his directing ability, and no the Halo movie is still being worked on by Wingnut Studios, preproduction stuff. Halo is too much of a money maker for them to quit working on it altogether.[/quote]

I know not the story of Halo, but in the history of video game to movie conversions has there ever been a truly good one? I doubt the die hard Halo-maniacs are going to put this movie over the top, there just aren't enough of them to make the movie turn a profit given how much it will cost to make. How many Halo games have been sold in the USA 6 or 7 million? lets say that represents 2 people per game sold for about 14 million potential people who might see it at the movies. What's the price of a movie ticket over in the States these days? $12. The movie will struggle to make $150 million at the US box office. Sounds like a lot of money, but I reckon production costs will be well over $150 Million and a movie needs to gross more than double its production costs at the box office to break even. DVD sales will have to do really well to make up the short fall. Doesn't sound like much of a cash cow to me. They'd be better off investing that money in another video game installment.

Not really looking forward to Lovely Bones either because I didn't think much of the book.

But Tintin was a favourite of mine when I was a kid. And I really liked the original Dambusters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well what I heard when the first words of it being made into a movie was that a lot of people were like 'finally, get to see what the fuss is all about'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1601488' date='Nov 26 2008, 20.16']You've obviously never lived in a place with weather that changes throughout the day. We have a saying: "If you don't like the weather here just wait 10 minutes". Turning the rain on and off didn't even register as an issue for me as that sort of thing is a natural phenomenon where I'm from. I call it nitpicking for no good reason other than to find ways to criticise, if you are going to cite things like inconsistent rain between scenes that viewers would regard as being coincident.[/quote]

I don't care where you're from, rain which is coming down in sheets turning on and off like you're flicking a light switch is a rare phenomenon and it takes me out of the scene because it's obviously a mistake and it's obviously shit poor editing.

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1601488' date='Nov 26 2008, 20.16']Criticise the bits that really matter. If the example you choose to cite is rain at Helms Deep then I say you don't have much of a case.[/quote]

I said it was one example. Another would be the terrible pacing of the climax. You have the excitement of Helm's Deep and Isengard and then... Oh look. Drama with Frodo and Sam. Then Helm's Deep! Then Isengard! Helm's Deep! Isengard! *sigh* Frodo and Sam in another dramatic moment. Or take Legolas who went from 'badass archer hero' to 'elf who can and will surf anything'. Let's take the battles in RotK in which the only scenes which stuck out from any other mass fight were the arrival of Rohan and the Army of the Dead. Let's take Arwen and her unnecessary drama of 'shall I stay or shall I go' whilst there's what's supposed to be a long as hell seige going on and two tiny guys are prancing through what's supposed to be one of the most dangerous places around.

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1601488' date='Nov 26 2008, 20.16']Don't make me laugh with the editing criticism. Say what you will about academy awards for fluffy stuff, but if a movie gets voted as the best editing job for the year by the best editors in the business, who are you to say it was a crap job? Even nomination for the editing award puts a movie beyond the credulous criticism of mere plebs such as we.[/quote]

The Helm's Deep example alone should suffice to destroy this argument. If not, you can witness the terrible pacing of action to drama and back again over and over and over. Hate to break it to you, but the Academy is political as hell.

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1601488' date='Nov 26 2008, 20.16']Faithfulness to story aside, the LOTR movies are widely acclaimed for their technical production values by those who work in the relevant fields. Your criticisms of technical elements are risible.

By any measure you care to name LOTR is an unqualified success in movie-making. Even among those who have read and enjoy the books the majority opinion is that it was a job well done.[/quote]

So...the movie is popular thus it is good.

...

Eragon. Twilight.

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1601488' date='Nov 26 2008, 20.16']There might be a handful of directors who could do a better job of directing ASoIAF than Jackson. So spare me the "ooooh keep him away, he'd ruin it!!!" crap. Besides, from a faithfulness to story perspective it is Benioff and Weiss you need to keep an eye on first and foremost.[/quote]

No. Aside from the complaints I've given and other than the fact that he's a movie director and not a tv director, the man has a way with trying to focus on these fantastic, overdramatic moments. If you like them, fine, but it wouldn't fit ASoIaF. The series is more grit than fantasy and treating it as a fantasy instead would really change the flavor of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1607186' date='Dec 3 2008, 10.04']Yeah, that's why he's a multi-award winning director, because he sucks at it. Uou do know you've contradicted yourself in the space of 3 sentences.[/quote]

Academy Awards hardly mean anything anymore.

Besides, I did commend him on LotR.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='b09boy' post='1609008' date='Dec 4 2008, 11.22']I don't care where you're from, rain which is coming down in sheets turning on and off like you're flicking a light switch is a rare phenomenon and it takes me out of the scene because it's obviously a mistake and it's obviously shit poor editing.[/quote]

C'mon, every movie has editing mistakes, and maybe you are just overly perceptive because I've seen that movie twice this year (and many times before), and never really noticed that.


[quote name='b09boy' post='1609008' date='Dec 4 2008, 11.22']Or take Legolas who went from 'badass archer hero' to 'elf who can and will surf anything'.[/quote]

You are absolutely right there. I hate that scene with a passion that burns hotter than Mt. Doom. What was he thinking? That scene is so frakkin stupid.

All in all though, he did a great job considering the limited budget, pressure from the studio, and inexperience with big films.

That does bring up an interesting question that was mentioned above: How the hell did he get a studio to give him hundreds of millions of dollars to adapt three films simultaneously. I mean, this guy is the director of The Frighteners. The Frighteners!

On topic:

Only a true fan of the books should direct. Any director interested in changing it and putting their mark on it should be punched in the crotch....repeatedly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Lil' Joey Clegane' post='1610857' date='Dec 6 2008, 16.01'][quote name='b09boy' post='1609008' date='Dec 5 2008, 05.22']
I don't care where you're from, rain which is coming down in sheets turning on and off like you're flicking a light switch is a rare phenomenon and it takes me out of the scene because it's obviously a mistake and it's obviously shit poor editing.[/quote]
C'mon, every movie has editing mistakes, and maybe you are just overly perceptive because I've seen that movie twice this year (and many times before), and never really noticed that.
[/quote]

I'm gonna call bullshit on this rain criticism. Aside from the fact that it is not an editing problem, in this instance it is a completely false criticism.

I originally gave b09boy the benefit of the doubt in talking about the interchange of rain and dry and rain and dry in the Helm's Deep battle. But since I have the DVD I thought I'd actually have a look at it. So I watched all the Helm's Deep scenes right up until the retreat into the Keep was sounded.

Basically the battle starts in rain and it continues raining pretty much until the first Uruk makes it over the battlements to start the melee combat. Then the rain stops and it stays dry from that point on. During the rain shots the amount of rain sometimes diminishes, but it is still there the whole time. There is perhaps a single shot of a few seconds duration during the transition from rain to no rain that there is no rain when there probably should be.

So this whole criticism of the so-called jarring effect of rain and lack of rain during the Helm's Deep battle amounts to a couple of seconds of footage at the time when the battle is already transitioning to the no rain segment.

[quote name='b09boy' post='1609008' date='Dec 5 2008, 05.22']Hate to break it to you, but the Academy is political as hell.[/quote]
[quote name='PestilencE' post='1609573' date='Dec 5 2008, 11.33']Academy Awards hardly mean anything anymore.[/quote]

No, really? Does that mean Uwe Boll will be able to schmooze his way to an Oscar for best director?
Regardless of whether it's political or not you have to be a better than average director, and have done a better than average job to be in the running for an Oscar. The rest is opinion, and, as you, say politics.

Academy Awards don't mean a lot to the TV audience, but to get such an award is still a huge deal for those in the industry. And it is still the most prestigious award to those in the business.

I have to disagree with folks here about Legolas' propensity to slide down things when he was fighting. I thought the stair surfing incident in TTT was pretty cool, and it was eminently practical given the circumstances. With the Mumakil it wasn't surfing at all, it was a very cheesy Fred Flintsone moment. Pretty bad, but it got a cheer from the audience nonetheless, even though I cringed quite badly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Look, I'm not going to start reviewing the job that Peter Jackson did with LotR, but I'll just say that he is being suggested only because he made three succsessful fantasy movies. The logic in such proposition is "look, he made a fantasy movie, let's get him for another". Which is a bit silly to me, but go ahead, there's no harm in wishful thinking and daydreaming.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1611551' date='Dec 7 2008, 02.40'][b]I have to disagree with folks here about Legolas' propensity to slide down things when he was fighting.[/b] I thought the stair surfing incident in TTT was pretty cool, and it was eminently practical given the circumstances. With the Mumakil it wasn't surfing at all, it was a very cheesy Fred Flintsone moment. Pretty bad, but it got a cheer from the audience nonetheless, even though I cringed quite badly.[/quote]

I don't know, it seemed out of place, and was crazy impractical. It was raining (or was it lol) so the stairs were incredibly slippery, and it is impossible to fire a bow that requires any pull from that position, and didn't he fire off like three arrows? Of course there was a dwarf tossing scene (which I love, "Don't tell the elf"), so maybe I shouldn't talk about impractical.

It just looked like he was surfing down the stairs and I thought it looked pretty ridiculous, though you are right, not nearly as bad as surfing off the back of the Oliphaunt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Lil' Joey Clegane' post='1611636' date='Dec 7 2008, 09.45']I don't know, it seemed out of place, and was crazy impractical. It was raining (or was it lol) so the stairs were incredibly slippery, and it is impossible to fire a bow that requires any pull from that position, and didn't he fire off like three arrows? Of course there was a dwarf tossing scene (which I love, "Don't tell the elf"), so maybe I shouldn't talk about impractical.

It just looked like he was surfing down the stairs and I thought it looked pretty ridiculous, though you are right, not nearly as bad as surfing off the back of the Oliphaunt.[/quote]

Worst thing is Peter actually implemented those Legolas stunts while re shooting, I imagine the original cuts would have been so much better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='gippu' post='1611648' date='Dec 7 2008, 09.14']Worst thing is Peter actually implemented those Legolas stunts while re shooting, I imagine the original cuts would have been so much better.[/quote]

Really? Dude. How does that scene fit into the film at all? It seems so glaringly out of place.

Eh, I don't begrudge Jackson one or two blemishes, considering what he was able to do with that budget and that source material. I am still an uber LoTR fan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1611551' date='Dec 7 2008, 01.40']I'm gonna call bullshit on this rain criticism. Aside from the fact that it is not an editing problem, in this instance it is a completely false criticism.

I originally gave b09boy the benefit of the doubt in talking about the interchange of rain and dry and rain and dry in the Helm's Deep battle. But since I have the DVD I thought I'd actually have a look at it. So I watched all the Helm's Deep scenes right up until the retreat into the Keep was sounded.

Basically the battle starts in rain and it continues raining pretty much until the first Uruk makes it over the battlements to start the melee combat. Then the rain stops and it stays dry from that point on. During the rain shots the amount of rain sometimes diminishes, but it is still there the whole time. There is perhaps a single shot of a few seconds duration during the transition from rain to no rain that there is no rain when there probably should be.[/quote]

So you're calling bullshit on the rain thing while basically admitting I'm right. Underplaying a problem is not calling bullshit on it.

Or how about this: aside from the beginning of the scene the rain is never actually touching the characters or is only seen in the background of the shot. They literally dip a character's head under water to make them look wet then add drops of rain digitally.

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1611551' date='Dec 7 2008, 01.40']So this whole criticism of the so-called jarring effect of rain and lack of rain during the Helm's Deep battle amounts to a couple of seconds of footage at the time when the battle is already transitioning to the no rain segment.[/quote]

It never exactly transitions until they board themselves up into the main part of the keep. Until then it's pretty jittery.

[quote name='The Anti-Targ' post='1611551' date='Dec 7 2008, 01.40']No, really? Does that mean Uwe Boll will be able to schmooze his way to an Oscar for best director?[/quote]

No. Boll is only a director because of a German law which allows him to keep getting the money to keep directing as well as a few people who are so desperate as to go through him to get a job. Literally. Nobody will fund him any longer and nobody with a solid career will work for him.

Other than that it's pretty fair game. If you're in with the right people and/or make something popular enough that the Academy has to notice you else get bitten in the ass you're set.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
anti-targ


i know this will just start more raving, but i just spent 20 minutes reading all this, and to me, it seems that it is you who is missing the point. yes, you loved the movies, but pretty much every comment bo9boy has said has been spot on.

there were lots of technical errors in LoTR, the rain is one of them. there was also a a scene where viggo (best actor in the movies- his fame is by far the best thing to come out of the trilogy) actually walks into the camera.

Yes, editing such a huge body of work is commendable, but the movies were definitely not beyond critique.



and also, out of all the points bo9boy made about why he didn't like the last two movies, the one tech error he pointed is the weakest critique hes offered. why are you focusing on that one comment?

bo9boy

i completely agree with you. although the last two movies had their moments, they were mostly filled with complete cheese. especially the legolas-surfing comment. those scenes made me cringe.

and the scene at the end of RoTK when the fellowship is reunited, and the hobbits are crying and cooing and jumping around in bed together...jesus, i just wanted to vomit.

yes, this might be accurate to the book, but i think the point was a bit lost (or mutilated) in translation.

and there were the "running" scenes in the second film, where gimli is basically made a mockery of (the man is moving at a 5th of the speed that viggo and orlando are-- the actor can barely run), and the scene is reduced from something cool to just a glaring example of how PJ has a hard time interpreting a fantasy story with real-life imagery. instead of finding a clever way of making the scene work, he resorts to the "eh, whatever, itll be funny" attitude.

I truly believe that LoTR was never meant to be a movie. The books were too long, and way too detailed for such a format. God, i remember wanting to leave when the end of the 3rd movie stretched on for days, and ended with a corny wedding scene with Rudy.

yes, i want the HBO series to be directed by a true fan, but PLEASE let it not be some super-nerd that is too often inclined to his own dorky style.

GRRM's work however, should translate alot better to a TV series, than LoTR did to the big screen.


oh, and GRRM is about ten times the author that JRRT was.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='chessruffian']and the scene at the end of RoTK when the fellowship is reunited, and the hobbits are crying and cooing and jumping around in bed together...jesus, i just wanted to vomit.[/quote]
I like the movies and didn't mind the cheesy bits, but [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8vx0wTnMis"]this version[/url] of the happy gay hobbit reunion always makes me laugh.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×