Ages

[Valyrian-Steel]

Question...

Do you feel it is important to get the age right of characters who...

1. Do not have kids.

2. Do not have parents (that make appearances anyways).

3. Do not have age as a plot point?


For example. Sandor and Gregor. I don't see a compelling need that they be any age in particular. Neither the Umbers, nor, the Manderlys, nor even the Boltons. See where I'm going? Roose Bolton could be 60 with a 40 year old bastard, 50 with a 30 year old bastard, or 40 with a 20 year old bastard. Either way won't really make a difference to the plot. Sandor and Gregor, as members of a minor house, would not have played any large historical role, and so can be any age they want, only so that they look enough like brothers. Same with the Umbers, and the Manderlys, etc etc. Bronn, most of the kingsguard, etc. If all they do in the plot is scheme, have sex, and fight, those actions can be done at 40, 30, or 20.

There are people with age as a plotpoint, Selmy for instance has to be older because that is why Joffrey kicks him out, then of course main characters with kids or parents have to match up, but all these minor house characters really can be any age and I don't see it making a difference. So I don't think we should all get hung up on them.

[Venardhi]

It isn't necessary, no.

Bronn COULD be 25-40 without much fuss.

Sandor just needs to be younger then Gregor, and neither of them should be over 45, though I think part of the Hound's issues stem from a sort of lost-childhood complex that plays better if he is under 30.

A lot of the minor characters are pretty flexible, but there is no real need to flex most of them either.

The ones I'm mostly worried about are the kids, and that they remain kids.

[About Yea High]

I agree, and as always, quality acting trumps any other kind of casting.

Just about the only thing I won't forgive is a pretty Brienne.

[Prince of the North]

Yes, I also agree. Get someone in each role who can "pull it off" and then worry about looks specifics. I'm definitely with you on not having a pretty Brienne but make-up, etc. can do alot. Just think of how they changed Charlize Theron in "Monster".

[phoenix_rising]

Dany needs to be a little older. I think we need an older(16-20) actress to pull her off. The sex scenes(hoping they dont get cut) cant be erotic if she is childish looking. I would'nt feel right rubbin one out to late night hbo if she were childish looking.. :ack:

[Ran]

Gregor, anyways, [i]does[/i] need to be old enough to do the Elia and Aegon business, so that puts a lower limit on his age. Still, you're broadly correct that many characters do not need a very specific age.

[Venardhi]

[quote name='phoenix_rising' post='1595675' date='Nov 20 2008, 14.46']Dany needs to be a little older. I think we need an older(16-20) actress to pull her off. The sex scenes(hoping they dont get cut) cant be erotic if she is childish looking. I would'nt feel right rubbin one out to late night hbo if she were childish looking.. :ack:[/quote]
They aren't supposed to be 'erotic'. The actress they get will probably be in the age group you specify, but I for one pray to the drowned god she still looks convincingly 14ish. We have the internet for porn, rub one out over some fan art if you have a Dany fetish.

[Lord Mord]

I agree with Venardhi.

[Lord Mord]

Also:

I like keeping the ages fairly faithful, at least for those over, say, eighteen years. In my mind's eye, there was an almost earth-shattering shift with Robert's Rebellion, that I think is a major psychological influence on anyone old enough to know the Targaryen reign. Sandor, for example, was old enough, but only just. At a particularly impressionable age, in terms of assessing the prowess he himself, as a new man, can muster, he witnesses Robert Baratheon overrun 300 years of dragon rule and park his backside on the Iron Throne.

Nothing previous, except back to, maybe the Conquest of Dorne, or back to Aegon's Landing, really comes close to the same thing, and it's a massive part of his psyche. If he were much older, I should think he would carry at least a little more resentment for this upjumped thug -- I mean, no matter Sandor's own place in things, Robert, I think, would look the more like a murderer and a pig if Sandor had had more years under the dragon banner.

No matter that his lord was Lannister, who [i]ultimately[/i] joined the Rebellion. Still, there was supposed to be an [i]order[/i] to things that only a personal loyalty to House Baratheon (or House Arryn or House Stark) should have been able to overcome. I mean, the Cleganes are not known for honor, but they weren't bought off, either.


As it happens: Sandor was young enough, and at the right age to be inspired by such things, that it seemed to him that whatever pig Robert might be, he was an immensely powerful man, and that a person with power can overrun ... well, almost anything, and who's to say it's moral or not?

[Tyro Lannister]

I don't want the sex scenes to be erotic either, I never thought of any of asoiaf sex scenes as being erotic and don't think GRRM ever intended for them to be either. The sex scenes are always brief and to the point, certain [i]parts[/i] of the act are described but they only serve to invoke an image and make things seem more real, but that's it and the image isn't written to last very long in our minds before the story moves on, hence why it can't be described as erotic. I do think a certain amount of romanticism is implied though, and what and how the characters are thinking which, again, makes things more real.

As for age, I don't really think it's important to actually state their ages, it can be implied by casting actors that are not too tall, that are thin, small breasted, who don't have an obvious greyness on their jaw where their beard would be - although they can fix that with makeup. And then there is their acting, they can act like a younger person, act submissive to any adult figures their character interacts with, there will be enough there really in just what their lines are and how they deliver them to imply something if viewers care enough to think about it and to satisfy any concerns the readers have. You don't need to actually state their age at all, when Jon says "I am nearly almost a man grown, I will be 14 on my name day", you can cut out the latter part of that line.

There's also the option of replacing the younger actors at some point, like they did with Rome's Octavian, replacing Max Pirkis with Simon Woods, it needs to be done well so no one is let confused about it though. I think it's better just to cast someone who can be made to look a little younger in the beginning, then show them truly later.

[Ran]

Quick note for people:


If you're replying to someone, and your reply is one line long, do [i]not[/i] under any circumstances quote the entire text they posted. Quote the very small part you're responding to, or just make it plain you are responding to their last post.

[Saberj]

[quote name='Venardhi' post='1595701' date='Nov 20 2008, 18.04']They aren't supposed to be 'erotic'. The actress they get will probably be in the age group you specify, but I for one pray to the drowned god she still looks convincingly 14ish. We have the internet for porn, rub one out over some fan art if you have a Dany fetish.[/quote]

I completely agree. The fact that Dany and Sansa were so young at the beginning of the stories added a lot to the power of what we were being told. If Dany was 18 and being married off while having her brother control her, she would look extremely weak, and we wouldn't have the same emotional attachment.

This isn't a softcore porn film. It's far more important to me that the actress look right than be able to do sex scenes. If you get an 18 year old that looks young, I suppose that would be alright as well. But they are far and few between.

[Lady Blackfish]

Saberj I agree with that, I think understanding the experiences of the characters is more important to GRRM than titillation, so within the bounds of what's legal for them to film, I think keeping the ages of the characters close to what they are in the book would be a plus. Often enough they have older actors playing younger characters and the audience goes along with it, as long as they can be convincing *enough*.

[Adelle Tully]

Well, it looks as if they're going to age the characters up, but I agree that I hope they can still be young looking in order to pull off the innocence.

[Smoldering Hound]

On the other hand, I have trouble seeing kids the age of those in disney channel kid sitcoms doing the things done in game of thrones. I mean, I want Arya's first kill to be a positive thing, not a freakish thing.

I guess Phantom Menace has poisoned me towards child actors with major roles that require serious emotional depth.

Girl from Pan's Labrinth is about the younger extreme I'd like to see Arya at.

[Ran]

Arya's first cold-blooded murder is supposed to be a freakish thing. She's a traumatized child, not an action hero.

I suppose I can see your meaning if the child actor is unable to pull off the cold-blooded nature of it, if it just seems weird or funny. But as far as the actual story goes, yes, it's abberant and abnormal behavior for a nine-year-old.

[cybroleach]

[quote name='Venardhi' post='1595701' date='Nov 20 2008, 18.04']They aren't supposed to be 'erotic'. The actress they get will probably be in the age group you specify, but I for one pray to the drowned god she still looks convincingly 14ish.[/quote]

Are you kidding half of Dany's chapters are all erotisim, her having sex for the first time, her trowing Drogo down and riding him, walking around with a breast exposed having Jorah drool all over her, her handmaid scene. Its very important to her character.
I dont see HBO cutting any of that out they are know for this and that's why they the only real option for the show because they mix sex, violence and plot so well together. They don't do family oriented shows.

Well since we know their getting aged up I'd say we can shift everyone 3 years older and that fixes alot of things. Meaning that the Rebellion to place 3 years earlier.
That way we get an 18-21 actress for Dany playing a 16 losing her hyman. Plays better on screne since now shes still young but it dosn't look too crazy having her do all her sex scenes.
Then we have a 15-18 actress playing a 14 yr old Sansa.

[a_stark_in_winterfell]

[quote name='About Yea High' post='1595602' date='Nov 20 2008, 13.27']Just about the only thing I won't forgive is a pretty Brienne.[/quote]

agreed.

[The Anti-Targ]

[quote name='Venardhi' post='1595701' date='Nov 21 2008, 12.04']They aren't supposed to be 'erotic'. The actress they get will probably be in the age group you specify, but I for one pray to the drowned god she still looks convincingly 14ish. We have the internet for porn, rub one out over some fan art if you have a Dany fetish.[/quote]

[quote name='Saberj' post='1597013' date='Nov 22 2008, 13.13']I completely agree. The fact that Dany and Sansa were so young at the beginning of the stories added a lot to the power of what we were being told. If Dany was 18 and being married off while having her brother control her, [b]she would look extremely weak, and we wouldn't have the same emotional attachment[/b].[/quote]

I disagree. You need to remember that Viserys is not merely Dany's older, psychologically unstable brother. Dany believes him to be her rightful king and future husband. This places Viserys in a position of authority and dominance that he would exercise throughout Dany's adulthood if things went that way.

Anyway, I don't really like Dany, so I don't have the emotional attachment to her that you do. I didn't name myself the Anti-Targ for nothing.

[quote name='cybroleach' post='1601796' date='Nov 28 2008, 06.49']Are you kidding half of Dany's chapters are all erotisim, her having sex for the first time, her trowing Drogo down and riding him, walking around with a breast exposed having Jorah drool all over her, her handmaid scene. Its very important to her character.
I dont see HBO cutting any of that out they are know for this and that's why they the only real option for the show because they mix sex, violence and plot so well together. They don't do family oriented shows.[/quote]

For the purposes of a screen adaptation I think Dany would be way too young, and would go from abused little sister to a leader of men commanding the respect of thousands too fast and too young. Bumping her up from 14 to 16, or even 18, would give the story credibility on-screen while still maintaining the essence of her story.

Still I think 18 is a bit too old and 16 is about right for TV (it still means they are not portraying statutory rape [in today's context] as a normal thing [in the context of the story]).

Dany is a Joan of Arc figure. And Joan of Arc accomplished all her great feats from the time she was 17. A 16/17 year old girl doing the things Dany does is incredible enough, as the greatness of Joan's story attests. 14 years old is stretching credulity for a TV audience. Especially if you are aiming for the Sopranos/Rome/Deadwood crowd who are into gritty, cynical realism.

Subconsciously I always saw Dany as older, I just found myself being able to believe what she did and said that much easier if I ignored her age in the book and imagined her as slightly older.

[Ran]

[quote]Especially if you are aiming for the Sopranos/Rome/Deadwood crowd ...[/quote]

Admittedly, [i]Rome[/i] featured a 14-year-old Octavian beginning to mastermind his rise to power, so I'm not sure this is as much of an issue as you fear.