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Samalander

How easy is it for Stannis to threaten Jon?

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Stannis likes to threaten Jon with death when Jon doesn't comply. But isn't it a bit rash to go try and kill the man who commands an armed force at least a third the size of yours?

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[quote name='Samalander' post='1622451' date='Dec 17 2008, 21.01']Stannis likes to threaten Jon with death when Jon doesn't comply. But isn't it a bit rash to go try and kill the man who commands an armed force at least a third the size of yours?[/quote]

well, the loyalty of the nights watch to jon is questionable. remember, before sam's intervention, well under half of the brothers were actually going to vote for jon when mormont died. and stannis is well aware of this.

also, where does stannis threaten to hang jon? he says something along the lines of "you are the lord commander only on my sufferance", thereby implying that he could have jon removed and replaced with a more tractable lc.

if i missed it, and stannis did indeed make such a threat, then i have no doubt that he would try and carry out his threat. stannis does not make empty threats, he means what he says.

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Also Stannis' force is generally better armed and trained than the NW which is full of builders and stewards and lost a lot of good men at the Fist. Would not want to be in Jon's situation...

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Stannis makes that threat in

SPOILER: Dance of Dragons Jon Chapter Preview
one of the released Jon chapters from [i]Dance of Dragons[/i], where he basically says something along the lines of "Well, perhaps the next Lord Commander would be inspired by the sight of your head on a pike to be more accommodating.


As for the OP, Stannis could try - but he'd basically get into a full-on pissing match with the Night's Watch, which only hurts him and which would probably give the wildlings an opening to do what they want/escape.

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[quote name='Guardsman Bass' post='1622474' date='Dec 17 2008, 21.42']Stannis makes that threat in

SPOILER: Dance of Dragons Jon Chapter Preview
one of the released Jon chapters from [i]Dance of Dragons[/i], where he basically says something along the lines of "Well, perhaps the next Lord Commander would be inspired by the sight of your head on a pike to be more accommodating.


As for the OP, Stannis could try - but he'd basically get into a full-on pissing match with the Night's Watch, which only hurts him and which would probably give the wildlings an opening to do what they want/escape.[/quote]

Yep, last thing he needs to do right now is piss off the one group of people who are hosting him. He's also got Bolton to worry about behind him. Luckily for Jon, Stannis is currently at the point where he really can't afford to make a new set of enemies, but even then, he's bloodyminded enough to go through with it should he be 'provoked'.

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See, that's why he'll never be king. He has to have his way all the time, does not know how to compromise and thinks he can bully everyone with the threat of force.

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[mod] No spoilers in thread titles please. ADWD preview chapters should be discussed only in that forum, only under non-spoiler containing titles, and should be clearly marked as containing spoilers. [/mod]

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I don't think that he [i]really[/i] threatens Jon by [i]seriously [/i]intending to shorten him by a head. Even Mel says that much to Jon in the preview chapter in GRRM's website.

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[quote name='mormont' post='1622586' date='Dec 17 2008, 15.50'][mod] No spoilers in thread titles please. ADWD preview chapters should be discussed only in that forum, only under non-spoiler containing titles, and should be clearly marked as containing spoilers. [/mod][/quote]
You do know the computer won't let us lowly peon types open a new thread on the ADWD forum?

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[quote name='Rinso' post='1622698' date='Dec 17 2008, 17.19']I don't think that he [i]really[/i] threatens Jon by [i]seriously [/i]intending to shorten him by a head. Even Mel says that much to Jon in the preview chapter in GRRM's website.[/quote]
He's not really the joking type, though.

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I have a feeling he is going to come to respect Jon, the way he respects Davos, since Jon is giving him honest counsel like Davos has been doing. Any threats are just to see how Jon reacts.

That's one theory, another is that he could very well try to kill Jon, if he crosses Melisandre and interferes with her plans, I believe it a strong possibility that Stannis is somewhat ensorcelled and is being manipulated by Melisandre.

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i don't believe stannis means to act on it. as tyrion once said many men ask for the truth but few can stomach it when it is served to them. i think stannis has too much respect for the son of ned stark, he just does not always like to hear what is not always to his way of thinking.

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I have a question and I'm sorry if it's been asked before: If R + L = J, and Dany's the Azor Ahai, and Melisandre finds out both of these facts, will she burn Jon?

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Pure speculation and impossible to know.

Assuming that the theory is true as well as the idea that somehow Howland Reed comes and says "hey you're a Targ" to Jon I can see her trying to manipulate Stannis to go for him. He seems to be having less personal control lately so he may actually do it.

Now if she hinds out about Dany, I'm pegging her for denying it and continually believing in Stannis.

Again, this is all speculation

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[quote name='Bolton Bastard' post='1626426' date='Dec 20 2008, 02.07']Pure speculation and impossible to know.

Assuming that the theory is true as well as the idea that somehow Howland Reed comes and says "hey you're a Targ" to Jon I can see her trying to manipulate Stannis to go for him. He seems to be having less personal control lately so he may actually do it.

Now if she hinds out about Dany, I'm pegging her for denying it and continually believing in Stannis.

Again, this is all speculation[/quote]

Considering that Melisandre comes from Ashai, where fire magic is taken very seriously and the supposed origin place of Dragons is located nearby in the Shadow, she's almost certainly heard things about Dany and the Dragons.

But isn't that Maester Aemon's point in AFFC? People can deceive themselves - certainly Aemon thinks Melisandre is seeing what she wants to see.

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Does Stannis really have any reason to demand cooperation form the Nights Watch in the first place? I mean, except for the threat of force.

Even if he were actually king (in any place other than his own head), each and every black brother has forsaken all other vows but this one etc, etc, so would the Nights Watch as an entity owe any allegiance to the crown of the Seven Kingdoms?

I'm guessing not. I get the feeling Jon would tell Stannis to completely kiss off if he could, but its hard to tell with the circumstances as they are. ie: Stannis not really formally recognized as an authority, but proximal and with more men at arms. Jon having bigger (colder) fish to fry and so not willing or able to turn away the extra manpower.

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To me it seems like Stannis is treating Jon the same way he did Davos...he threatened Davos a few times to.

And Mel does say in the preview chapter on GRRMs site that Stannis has grown "fond" of Jon. Which you can see in the fact that Stannis really only confides in a few people it seems; Mel, Davos...Jon?

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Yeah, Stannis likes to threaten. Make note of how Mel later says to Jon how Stannis likes him. I think he threatens people to see how they handle it.

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Stannis is fool. One who believes he's always right, so he gets many many people die and suffer because of him. Just like Rhaegar.

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Stannis is fool. One who believes he's always right, so he gets many many people die and suffer because of him. Just like Rhaegar.

Comparisons please.

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