How easy is it for Stannis to threaten Jon?

[TrueMetis]

Stannis is fool. One who believes he's always right, so he gets many many people die and suffer because of him. Just like Rhaegar.

not really Rhaegar knew how to laugh but he was a fool when he decided to make the trident pretty much his first battle when he was facing people like robert and ned who had already fought multiple battles

[Lord Commander Snow]

Stannis would just have to deal wtih a new Commander if he kills Jon, I think he's just trying to pressure him, but just straight up kiling up is an unlikely move on his part, just not very advantageous. Besides Mel would talk stannis out of it.

How easy is it for STannis to threaten him? Well pretty easy he knows Jon won't make the first move, but he know the NW will fight him if they have to. So I think he can say whatever he wants without to much fear of any form of retribution but he can't "Do" whatever he wants.

[Kingslayer]

not really Rhaegar knew how to laugh but he was a fool when he decided to make the trident pretty much his first battle when he was facing people like robert and ned who had already fought multiple battles

My theory: Rhaegar "threw" the battle to the rebels, realizing that he had to sacrifice himself to make prophecy happen.

yeah, he told Jaime he would make changes when he "came back," but princes can lie, too.

[jurble]

honestly, i think Jon's best bet for making Stannis get off his back, is to let Melisandre sacrifice a king's kid, and realize it doesnt wake a stone dragon. (the prophecy Melisandre screwed up is Dany waking fossilized dragons obvsly, but melisandre is a god damn moron

), it would probably break melisandre's hold over stannis. Or, if Jon is revealed a legit Targ heir to the throne, Stannis might bend knee to him, i'm not sure really what Stannis would do in this situation.

[dragon wolf]

honestly, i think Jon's best bet for making Stannis get off his back, is to let Melisandre sacrifice a king's kid, and realize it doesnt wake a stone dragon. (the prophecy Melisandre screwed up is Dany waking fossilized dragons obvsly, but melisandre is a god damn moron

), it would probably break melisandre's hold over stannis. Or, if Jon is revealed a legit Targ heir to the throne, Stannis might bend knee to him, i'm not sure really what Stannis would do in this situation.

I think Melisandre wakes the stone dragon that Dany saw in her visions.

[jurble]

I remember that weird shadow dragon, but I think it's metaphorical. I refuse to believe Melisandre is anything but a standard Asshai shadowbinder.

[Jon Targaryen]

I remember that weird shadow dragon, but I think it's metaphorical. I refuse to believe Melisandre is anything but a standard Asshai shadowbinder.

In other words, not powerful enough to create a stone shadow dragon?

[Roza Ahai]

but melisandre is a god damn moron

We don't have her POV, so we don't know her motives. If she truly believes that Stannis is the PWWP than she would not create shadow babies with him and thus weaken the king. Stannis is now a shadow of himself, almost exhausted.

[Chalky]

We don't have her POV, so we don't know her motives. If she truly believes that Stannis is the PWWP than she would not create shadow babies with him and thus weaken the king. Stannis is now a shadow of himself, almost exhausted.

he still has his spirit, the will and the same intelligence he had at the start of the campaign, hes just physically weaker. I dont think hes a shadow of himself

and melisandre is a god damn moron who nevertheless killed three kings hundreds of miles away from her and each other and can see any future threats to herself...doesnt look stupid to me

[Roza Ahai]

hes just physically weaker.

I meant this. Mel knows he is very weak because she told Davos that she is afraid to produce one more baby with Stannis. I think that Mel knew it would cost something to Stannis for shadowbinding magic. If Mel thought that Stannis is true PWWP would she threaten Stannis' health by making shadow babies? She could use someone else. She even asked Davos to help create shadow babies.

Mel is not a moron. I don't think that she killed 3 kings, but she could see their death in flames and just use her vision for her purpose to ensure Stannis in her abilities.

[jurble]

In other words, not powerful enough to create a stone shadow dragon?

I refuse to believe that vision is real, it has to be metaphorical, otherwise, why hasn't Asshai, which seems to be far more open with arcane guff, captured some royal bastards from across the world, and used Stone dragons to conquer the world? Or is Melisandre really special, we've seen 3 people so far with shadow/blood magic right? Quaithe(that's how you spell it right?), chick with the 3 part name Marri Maz Duur or something (I mean, if a Maegi was in a random village in the Dothraki Sea, using her as a statistical sample, they must be everywhere), and Melisandre, and she's a fanatic, who like Maester Aemon said, has convinced herself she's right. But she's not, q.e.d. she's a moron.

[Roza Ahai]

why hasn't Asshai, which seems to be far more open with arcane guff, captured some royal bastards from across the world, and used Stone dragons to conquer the world?

Asshai probably did not have such a goal.

Or is Melisandre really special, we've seen 3 people so far with shadow/blood magic right? Quaithe(that's how you spell it right?), chick with the 3 part name Marri Maz Duur or something (I mean, if a Maegi was in a random village in the Dothraki Sea, using her as a statistical sample, they must be everywhere), and Melisandre, and she's a fanatic, who like Maester Aemon said, has convinced herself she's right. But she's not, q.e.d. she's a moron.

Mel is different from Mirri Maz Durr. She is much stronger. Maester Aemon might be wrong thinking that Mel is sure that she's right. Mel said something that the visions in flames are always true but their interpretations can be wrong. So she knows she might be wrong. That "moron" helped to save the NW.

[jurble]

Davos helped saved the NW, Melisandre wanted to roast Edric Storm.

[Roza Ahai]

Davos helped saved the NW, Melisandre wanted to roast Edric Storm.

Mel burned someone to speed Stannis' ships to the Wall, otherwise they would be late.

[Jon Targaryen]

I refuse to believe that vision is real, it has to be metaphorical, otherwise, why hasn't Asshai, which seems to be far more open with arcane guff, captured some royal bastards from across the world, and used Stone dragons to conquer the world?

It is supposedly in a prophecy that Azor Ahai Reborn will wake dragons from stone or stone dragons. So that may be why no one else does it. That would seem to indicate the vision is not going to happen though.

[Jaqen Fett]

Mel burned someone to speed Stannis' ships to the Wall, otherwise they would be late.

I think Mel has her own personal motives for wanting to be at the Wall. All her talk of R'hollor and Stannis being Azor Ahai ending the night has got to have something to do w/ her wanting to directly address the threat of the Others. I could see Stannis biting the dust because Mel drastically overestimates him (b/c she sees him as AA reborn) and I don't see any dragons being awakened on the Wall. Please correct me if I am wrong, but there aren't any stone dragons at the Wall nor are there any dragon eggs, so where would this dragon come from? Winterfell? Winterfell is still under Bolton control and isn't exactly close to the Wall (didn't it take over a week for Jon to get there?). Plus, it would be a huge waste of time for Stannis to train and get together an army of wildlings to attack Winterfell all for gaining access to the stone dragons that need waking up.

[dragon wolf]

IMO, if any stone dragons are raised, it is at dragonstone. Unless it is the one Summer "saw" at Winterfell.

[Mongrel]

Stone dragons = vulcanism/geothermal energy. There are hot springs in Winterfell, and Dragonstone is a volcano island. Both are good candidates.

[Kingslayer]

Stone dragons = vulcanism/geothermal energy. There are hot springs in Winterfell, and Dragonstone is a volcano island. Both are good candidates.

Hot springs and volcanoes don't often sprout wings and fly off, as per Dany's vision. ;)

[Chalky]

See, that's why he'll never be king. He has to have his way all the time, does not know how to compromise and thinks he can bully everyone with the threat of force.

Sounds like a king to me