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Ser_not_appearing_yet

My discussion with one of the producers

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[quote name='Padraig' post='1635979' date='Jan 3 2009, 00.57']They could delay some of it for season 4. Depending on what they decide to do with aDwD and aFfC (i.e. 1 or 2 seasons). Not sure what they could delay since its a great climax but since the next book begins straight after aSoS, they have flexibility.

Still. Not a current concern. :)[/quote]

They can retain the major climax in ASoS, but they can bump the end of some of the story arcs into the next season.

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The most likely thing to happen, IMO, is that the season breakdowns stop mirroring the book breakdowns after ACoK.

I haven't taken a close look at the chapter lengths for ASoS and AFfC, but my suspicion is that Season 3 might end with the Red Wedding. Season 4 would encompass the remainder of ASoS and the bulk of AFfC/ADwD (it just occurred to me, however, that it might be better to end Season 3 with Robb arriving at the Twins, with everything looking like he might pull things together... Season 4 then starts with the Red Wedding and the aftermath.

Back to the original point... I've been told that a friend of a friend is the producer at HBO in charge of the ASOIAF project. I don't know if its the same person that SerNotAppearing spoke to, but it's possible. I've met her a couple of times (though not since hearing of her connection to the series), and the reaction described sounds about right.

That said, I'm still hopeful, but more because of systemic inertia than anything else. While the system might be geared towards rejecting projects, I get the impression that ASOIAF will make it. It's already been greenlit, and the pilot has the OK to go forward. It's a good story with good characters, and would make good TV. Moreover, the economy is in the tank and people aren't very optimistic right now. It's a great time for fantasy and escapism.

ETA complete sentences.

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No offense but wouldnt it be best if this woman wasnt a producer on the series. If she doesnt believe in the project, it will only harm the chances of it being picked up. Such negativity and ignorance about the story from one of the producers is not very good at all for the series chances. Not good at all.

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Sounds like someone, shouldn't be a producer of the pilot. There is no way that audiences won't be captivated if this is done right. I say cut the books apart into multiple seasons, that could def be done. And no one in ASOIAF is black and white, isn't that the point of the story?

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Ned moved to KL. Arya moves around a lot, and Jon ends up pretty far from Winterfell. Dany also moves from place to place. AFFC was essentially Brienne traveling around Westeros, and in SoS Jaime was with her. Sansa at this point is far from where she began.

The LOTR characters were frequently separated and out of touch with each other but the movie made that work.

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[quote name='Stark Raving Mad Wolf' post='1637410' date='Jan 4 2009, 05.40']No offense but wouldnt it be best if this woman wasnt a producer on the series. If she doesnt believe in the project, it will only harm the chances of it being picked up. Such negativity and ignorance about the story from one of the producers is not very good at all for the series chances. Not good at all.[/quote]

This.

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[quote name='Maxxy' post='1633171' date='Dec 29 2008, 15.08']I had to wonder about this myself. How she sees them as black and white???[/quote]

The cynic in me doubts he actually spoke to anybody. Seems like a made-up post to me to generate responses, without having to take the resposibility of being a troll.

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Sernotapearinginthiseries:
Did your friend happen to mention if a budget has been set?

In regards to those who have wondered about the different locations:
Having different locations with few characters that move around between them can actualy be helpful in terms or time constraints and scheduling. All of Dany's scenes can be filmed at the same time as the Winterfell scenes, for example. You film all the scenes where all the Lannisters are together at the same time, and then you film, say, all the scenes that are just Jaime and Cersei. They did this sort of thing with both the LOTR and Harry Potter movies. I'd be interested to know how many assistant directors they're going to need, though.

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Very, very interesting post. To the ones questioning the veracity of it: coming from a marketing background I can already smell from here the corporate bullshit that it transpires (misanalization of past sucesses,ignorance of the source material, conclusions derived more from "conventional wisdom" rather than a rational analysis, etc) so yep, the OP contacted one TV producing executive, PERIOD.

Some notes for your friend, with all my good will and from one professional to another:

- The main problem that this series are going to face are of logistic nature, not character - wise: the sheer volume of well, everything: casting, locations and more importantly as she pointed out (rightfully) the whole duration of the series.

- Rome's sucess didnt had ANYTHING to do with the historical background. There has been tons of series with historical background that failed miserably (the Tudors, the Borgia and Empire comes to mind, the last one being ambiented on Rome too). Rome's sucess steems for the very same thing that every HBO series has suceeded: it offered a kind of TV series that simply put, just wasnt made since the times of "I, Claudio". Prior to Rome there wasnt simply any high budget, mature historical TV series. None. Zip. Nada, zero. Rome founded a new, virgin market which noone else exploited and logically, it thrieved on it. Lack of competitors on one area is an awesome thing. If you want to replicate its sucess, you do not have to offer yet another historical TV series, but find another genre that is not being exploited on tv right now, look at the moon, not at the finger that points it. Game of Thrones is a prime candidate for that, which brings me to one real problem that the series has for its markeatability...

-...it really doesnt looks like a fantasy series at a first glance. It will need to show more magic in order to differenciate itself from the myriad of historical dramas that tries to ride in the sucess of Rome, or at least, create a completely unique atmosphere. Spectators must look at Westeros and feel it as another different world. That is going to be one hell of a challenge for the producers too.

- About the Black and White characters and "too many people die": That quote is made of LOL and facepalm. That is one of the main selling points of your product, the one that makes this series different from other fantasy series: the greyness of every character and how noone is ever safe. It is, precisely, the strenght of the series, not its weakness. Jesus, do you Hollywood people ever make WSMO analysis anymore? Not to mention that with the huge cast of characters you will easily find a character fit for each demographic. Yes, the "greyness" of the characters must be show more early so people do not misguide this with your stereotypical fantasy series, but that is a very minor inconvenience. Not to mention that the political intrigue will "greyfy" the whole series without needing to break the illusion that the Starks are the "good ones" and the Lannister the "bad guys".

- And seriously, viral market this shit as if there were no tomorrow. There is a ginormous, devoted fanbase, people who will promote this series for free and willingly, and the book itself contains a myriad of slogans and quotes that are the dream of an advertiser. "Winter is coming", "fire and blood", "no, this is how it ends", "you dont know nothing, Jon Snow...".

Whew, that was a long - ass post. I hope the best for your friend and the production team but they do need to know their product better in order to sell it.

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In fairness, [b]The Tudors[/b] was not a failure. In fact, I believe its audience figures have been higher than for [b]Rome[/b], certainly in the UK, and the fact that they have just finished filming a third season and seem to be expecting a fourth already is a sign that it has captured the imagination in a way that [b]Rome[/b] did not. Critically, [b]Rome[/b] urinates over [b]The Tudors [/b]from a great height, but [b]The Tudors[/b] has definitely been a greater success (no doubt helped by its smaller budget delivering comparable visuals).

Of course, [b]The Tudors[/b] very likely would not have been mounted or filmed without [b]Rome[/b] leading the way. This is why [b]AGoT[/b] may also have been picked up over the King Arthur project, namely that there's only so many TV shows on about a famous English king you can have at any one time ;)

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re. killing off characters: HBO made their name doing this. OZ is and was so great because of its lack of sentimentality for its established or interesting cast.

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[quote name='reiver' post='1651660' date='Jan 16 2009, 14.54']re. killing off characters: HBO made their name doing this. OZ is and was so great because of its lack of sentimentality for its established or interesting cast.[/quote]
Nahh, I always watched for the forcible sodomy.

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[quote name='Ikael' post='1650709' date='Jan 15 2009, 20.29']- And seriously, viral market this shit as if there were no tomorrow. There is a ginormous, devoted fanbase, people who will promote this series for free and willingly, and the book itself contains a myriad of slogans and quotes that are the dream of an advertiser. "Winter is coming", "fire and blood", "no, this is how it ends", "you dont know nothing, Jon Snow...".[/quote]
Nice post Ikael, the above comment is making me imagine all of the bus shelter and subway platform posters of the various characters and their choice quotes (some of these are from memory, so forgive me if they are not exactly correct):
[list]
[*]Eddard Stark - "Winter is Coming" (or the "No, this is how it ends" line instead)
[*]Jamie Lannister - "The things I do for love."
[*]Cersei Lannister - "When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."
[*]Arya (face and hands bloodied, with Needle in hand) - "Stick them with the pointy end."
[*]Tyrion Lannister - "That's why they made whores, for people like me."
[*]Daenerys Targaryan - "I will give them what they least expect, I will give them justice." [okay, it's not from the first book but it sums her up perfectly - maybe something from GoT is more appropriate]
[*]Catelyn Stark - ?
[*] Jon Snow - ?
[/list]Eight major characters is probably enough. Bronn and Theon probably have some good ones, but they probably shouldn't get their own posters.

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[quote name='Brude' post='1652657' date='Jan 17 2009, 14.36']Nice post Ikael, the above comment is making me imagine all of the bus shelter and subway platform posters of the various characters and their choice quotes (some of these are from memory, so forgive me if they are not exactly correct):
[list]
[*]Eddard Stark - "Winter is Coming" (or the "No, this is how it ends" line instead)
[*]Jamie Lannister - "The things I do for love."
[*]Cersei Lannister - "When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."
[*]Arya (face and hands bloodied, with Needle in hand) - "Stick them with the pointy end."
[*]Tyrion Lannister - "That's why they made whores, for people like me."
[*]Daenerys Targaryan - "I will give them what they least expect, I will give them justice." [okay, it's not from the first book but it sums her up perfectly - maybe something from GoT is more appropriate]
[*]Catelyn Stark - ?
[*] Jon Snow - ?
[/list]Eight major characters is probably enough. Bronn and Theon probably have some good ones, but they probably shouldn't get their own posters.[/quote]

Dammit... now you got me thinking. Eddard Jaime, and Cersei are great. Arya's pretty good too.
The line you gave to Daenerys is actually Tyrion's line, IIRC (beginning of ACoK). It's also a bit confident for her at the beginning of the series I'd think. Unfortunately, Dany is tough... best I can come up with is something she thinks: "If I look back, I am lost."
For Tyrion, I'd use the line Jaime attributes to him at the end of ACoK: "People say they hunger for the truth, but they rarely like the taste once it's served up." [paraphrased]
For Jon: a line from the oath of the Night's Watch... I like the last one: "Night gathers, and now my watch begins." (Or you bite the bullet and use "You know nothing, Jon Snow")
Catelyn's tough, but I like her words to Robb outside the Twins: "A lord must learn that sometimes words can accomplish what swords cannot."

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[quote name='Maester Yobjascz' post='1652862' date='Jan 18 2009, 01.39']The line you gave to Daenerys is actually Tyrion's line, IIRC (beginning of ACoK). It's also a bit confident for her at the beginning of the series I'd think. Unfortunately, Dany is tough... best I can come up with is something she thinks: "If I look back, I am lost."

For Jon: a line from the oath of the Night's Watch... I like the last one: "Night gathers, and now my watch begins." (Or you bite the bullet and use "You know nothing, Jon Snow")

Catelyn's tough, but I like her words to Robb outside the Twins: "A lord must learn that sometimes words can accomplish what swords cannot."[/quote]
You are totally right abut the Dany/Tyrion line, I don't know how I mixed that up. I think she does have a line something like that in one of the later books though. It is a good line for Tyrion to use better than what I suggested, though I think you are right that it comes in ACoK.

I think the Night's Watch oath is the best choice for Jon and Cat's line is a very good, too. It really signifies her role - raising and protecting her son, teaching him a lesson he fails to learn as well as he should...to all their misfortune

Sansa probably needs a line, as well.

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The only similar line that I can think of from Dany is her last line from ASoS, where she decides to stay and rule in Mereen, saying that "I shall stay and be Queen." The problem is that Dany has relatively few lines in her chapters... she mostly stays quiet and listens to what others are saying. Viserys, for example, has some great lines: "The dragon is not mocked."

As for Catelyn's line... it hadn't occurred to me until just now how nicely that line lays things out. It's said to Robb right outside the Twins on his way south. Robb never learns the lesson, and it's by that lesson that Tywin seals Robb's defeat at the Twins...

Sansa's really difficult because she doesn't start finding her strength 'til ACoK. I suppose you could go ahead and show her as a pawn, quoting a line that shows her naivete and innocence... or use one of Littlefinger's lines: "Life is not a song, sweetling."

That said, I'd probably leave Arya and Sansa out 'till the second season. Neither are really functioning independently at this point (while the line for Arya is great, Arya doesn't leave King's Landing and become feral 'till ACoK). In their place, I'd add Robert Baratheon ("Sitting a throne is a thousand times harder than winning one."), and maybe Tywin ("No man sheds Lannister blood with impunity."). Viserys would also be a good choice IMO ("I am no lesser man, I am the rightful lord of the Seven Kingdoms. The dragon does not beg," or "Ours by blood right, taken from us by treachery, but our still, ours forever. You do not steal from the dragon.").

In fact, a poster with both King Robert and Viserys, opposing each other, with their quotes below would be quite nifty. You could also 'oppose' Eddard and Jon, Catelyn and Tywin, Cersei and Daenerys, and Jaime and Tyrion.

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How about for Dany: "You don't want to wake the dragon, do you?"

I know it's really Viserys' line, but it sort of fits with her personality
SPOILER: AGoT
and the fact that she will, literally, wake the dragon(s) at the end of the season.


Or maybe it's a bit too affirmative for Dany in AGoT, I dunno...

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I imagine the bus and subway billboards an image of a raven with "Winter is coming". Simple.

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