House Corbray Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Twist' post='1663843' date='Jan 27 2009, 06.53']not a claim, just a requirement once during the game. Better day one than any other.[/quote]Please be more specific. You have to stay on same vote once during the game or you have to vote for night once during the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Mooton Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Mike, If you think there's a chance i'm lying then please explain my motivations. Only lynch someone without me if you want to lynch me. And yes, if i'm online at the time I will jump on the mob. I'm not volunteering to get lynched. And I'm not "goading others to claim". Twist said that the vote for night was "kind of" forced. It's not strange to ask them to explain. I assume everyone else playing has a brain and can decide for themselves whether a reveal is a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Tyres' post='1663895' date='Jan 27 2009, 10.35']Please be more specific. You have to stay on same vote once during the game or you have to vote for night once during the game?[/quote] vote for night once. Mike, I really didn't see a problem with the way Vully's question was phrased. I did leave it open and then thought of how to phrase my answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Mooton Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I say we go for a low poster. Brian is the lowest poster, but has the most sensible reaction to my reveal. [b]Dexter[/b] is next and has no sensible posts yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Vulva' post='1663699' date='Jan 27 2009, 10.54']This is it. The problem with my role is that it will affect my behaviour. So I think it's a good idea to reveal it as soon as possible. I saw no reason at all to keep it secret.[/quote] It really shouldn't be that hard for you to live with the role and have it only have a minor impact on your play. I see no reason for you to have revealed it, particularly considering we've wasted all this time only discussing your reveal. I'd say it would be beneficial as a symp, though I do agree with you that it would be a poor move for a symp to tie themselves down so early. Plus, with 11 players, we probably have 2 FM to deal with and no symp. For now I'm fine with letting you skate by except when you say things like: [quote name='Vulva' post='1663699' date='Jan 27 2009, 10.54']Tyres, it's not a joke, alas. And I have a major problem in that i'm going to bed well before the end of the day today. [u]So I suggest we pick someone to lynch nice and early.[/u][/quote] Are you kidding me? I'd be ready to lynch you right now if this wasn't so blatantly terrible for innocents that I don't believe an FM would say it. We are not going to compromise our lynch hours early. I'm sorry, but it is more important to have full days, every day, and get as much discussion in as possible, than to baby-sit your role and keep you alive. I'd rather you live than die, at least until you keep saying things like this. Anyways... Tyres, are you saying that you think there could be 2 FM plus a promotable symp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Vulva' post='1663898' date='Jan 27 2009, 10.37']Mike, If you think there's a chance i'm lying then please explain my motivations. Only lynch someone without me if you want to lynch me. And yes, if i'm online at the time I will jump on the mob. I'm not volunteering to get lynched. And I'm not "goading others to claim". Twist said that the vote for night was "kind of" forced. It's not strange to ask them to explain. I assume everyone else playing has a brain and can decide for themselves whether a reveal is a good idea.[/quote] Well there's always a chance that anybody who makes a claim is lying. As for motivations I couldn't begin to guess since I suppose that the possible roles in this game are innumerable. As for goading a role claim you said yourself "don't make us drag it out of you" referring to a role claim. That is a little bit more then just asking for a clarification of what she said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1663913' date='Jan 27 2009, 10.46']Anyways... Tyres, are you saying that you think there could be 2 FM plus a promotable symp?[/quote] That would be too many baddies in a game. If there is a symp, I doubt he would be promotable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1663913' date='Jan 27 2009, 10.46']It really shouldn't be that hard for you to live with the role and have it only have a minor impact on your play. I see no reason for you to have revealed it, particularly considering we've wasted all this time only discussing your reveal. I'd say it would be beneficial as a symp, though I do agree with you that it would be a poor move for a symp to tie themselves down so early. Plus, with 11 players, we probably have 2 FM to deal with and no symp. For now I'm fine with letting you skate by except when you say things like: Are you kidding me? I'd be ready to lynch you right now if this wasn't so blatantly terrible for innocents that I don't believe an FM would say it. We are not going to compromise our lynch hours early. I'm sorry, but it is more important to have full days, every day, and get as much discussion in as possible, than to baby-sit your role and keep you alive. I'd rather you live than die, at least until you keep saying things like this. Anyways... Tyres, are you saying that you think there could be 2 FM plus a promotable symp?[/quote] See that's the bit that makes me not buy the role itself completely. Its really quite a burden and as has been said only seems really useful for an improbable symp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Twist' post='1663918' date='Jan 27 2009, 16.48']That would be too many baddies in a game. If there is a symp, I doubt he would be promotable.[/quote] Thank you Tyres........ [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663915' date='Jan 27 2009, 16.47']Well there's always a chance that anybody who makes a claim is lying. As for motivations I couldn't begin to guess since I suppose that the possible roles in this game are innumerable. As for goading a role claim you said yourself "don't make us drag it out of you" referring to a role claim. That is a little bit more then just asking for a clarification of what she said.[/quote] Of course there is a chance that anybody who makes a role claim is lying. As for motivations, your only concern (should be) what motivation would an evil have to make a claim like that. If you can't think of any, then maybe that means something. Instead, you seem to be assuming that because you (supposedly) can't figure out why he'd reveal, that means he is suspicious. [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663923' date='Jan 27 2009, 16.51']See that's the bit that makes me not buy the role itself completely. Its really quite a burden and as has been said only seems really useful for [u]an improbable symp.[/u][/quote] For a what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1663936' date='Jan 27 2009, 11.02']Thank you Tyres........ Of course there is a chance that anybody who makes a role claim is lying. As for motivations, your only concern (should be) what motivation would an evil have to make a claim like that. If you can't think of any, then maybe that means something. Instead, you seem to be assuming that because you (supposedly) can't figure out why he'd reveal, that means he is suspicious. For a what?[/quote] Saving his master from dying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Mooton Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1663913' date='Jan 27 2009, 14.46']It really shouldn't be that hard for you to live with the role and have it only have a minor impact on your play. I see no reason for you to have revealed it, particularly considering we've wasted all this time only discussing your reveal. I'd say it would be beneficial as a symp, though I do agree with you that it would be a poor move for a symp to tie themselves down so early. Plus, with 11 players, we probably have 2 FM to deal with and no symp. For now I'm fine with letting you skate by except when you say things like:[/quote] You see no reason for me to reveal it. I do. I certainly didn't want to have to reveal it when i'm a couple of votes away from being lynched for jumping on a lynch mob. [quote]Are you kidding me? I'd be ready to lynch you right now if this wasn't so blatantly terrible for innocents that I don't believe an FM would say it. We are not going to compromise our lynch hours early. I'm sorry, but it is more important to have full days, every day, and get as much discussion in as possible, than to baby-sit your role and keep you alive. I'd rather you live than die, at least until you keep saying things like this.[/quote] Are you being deliberately obtuse? I'm not going to be here for the last 5/6 hours of today. I'm just not. So either we lynch a few hours early, or after i've gone to bed you have a choice between the person i'm voting for or me. There's nothing "blatantly terrible" about cutting a 36 hour day a few hours short. I agree it's not good, but it's nowhere near as bad as you make out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Vulva' post='1663949' date='Jan 27 2009, 11.08']There's nothing "blatantly terrible" about cutting a 36 hour day a few hours short. I agree it's not good, but it's nowhere near as bad as you make out.[/quote] We could make it 8 hours short and it would still be ok. We really don't need the long days we have had in the last several games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Mooton Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663945' date='Jan 27 2009, 15.06']Saving his master from dying?[/quote] Who's saving his master from dying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663945' date='Jan 27 2009, 17.06']Saving his master from dying?[/quote] Fail. A symp would not reveal in the manner that Vulva did. That would just be poor play. [quote name='Vulva' post='1663949' date='Jan 27 2009, 17.08']You see no reason for me to reveal it. I do. I certainly didn't want to have to reveal it when i'm a couple of votes away from being lynched for jumping on a lynch mob.[/quote] Come up with a reason to switch your vote. It really isn't that hard, people do it (innocents as well) every game. [quote name='Vulva' post='1663949' date='Jan 27 2009, 17.08']Are you being deliberately obtuse? I'm not going to be here for the last 5/6 hours of today. I'm just not. So either we lynch a few hours early, or after i've gone to bed you have a choice between the person i'm voting for or me.[/quote] No, but you are deliberately being a pain in the ass. You said "nice and early" that, to me, means something different from a few hours early. If the rest of the day is going to continue to be a discussion around you, then I'll be happy to wait until the last minute for a lynch and let you go down because we've gotten nowhere so far. Enough. I think you are more likely to be innocent than not. Let's move on. I only have a few minutes before I have to go (back in a few hours), I'll try to look back and find something worthwhile. Perhaps you can come up with something better than a low poster if you are going to cut our day short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Vulva' post='1663962' date='Jan 27 2009, 11.15']Who's saving his master from dying?[/quote] Nobody, at least I don't think so, because I don't think there is a symp. However Bilbo asked me why your claimed role would be good for a symp, so I answered thus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Corbray Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1663913' date='Jan 27 2009, 07.46']Anyways... Tyres, are you saying that you think there could be 2 FM plus a promotable symp?[/quote]I dunno. Both our mods are young, and I don't know their opinions about the balance. Personally, I think 11 players is headache. Perhaps, one FM, one promotable symp and one non-promotable symp? Anyway, what do you suggest? I'd say we still need to lynch a suspect, however late we would found such. If it would mean Vulva dying, so be it, we can't allow him to rule the process with all the time left. We have no real proof vulva is inno, so we shouldn't fuck the day just to keep him alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Wythers Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Bilbo' post='1663963' date='Jan 27 2009, 11.17']Fail. A symp would not reveal in the manner that Vulva did. That would just be poor play. Come up with a reason to switch your vote. It really isn't that hard, people do it (innocents as well) every game. No, but you are deliberately being a pain in the ass. You said "nice and early" that, to me, means something different from a few hours early. If the rest of the day is going to continue to be a discussion around you, then I'll be happy to wait until the last minute for a lynch and let you go down because we've gotten nowhere so far. Enough. I think you are more likely to be innocent than not. Let's move on. I only have a few minutes before I have to go (back in a few hours), I'll try to look back and find something worthwhile. Perhaps you can come up with something better than a low poster if you are going to cut our day short.[/quote] Oh i agree a symp claiming would be silly thing to do and as I say I don't think there is one. What is annoying and maybe is a bit suspicious is how we would be held somewhat hostage by Vulva's role. As it is now maybe we should just sort of ignore it. Just do as we'd normally do. Not go out of our way to accommodate it. Though I agree that there is no particular need to run things down to the wire. Thats leads to no lynches and might even go doubly so if enough people would be worrying about accidently getting Vulva killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Upcliff Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Tyres' post='1663973' date='Jan 27 2009, 11.25']I dunno. Both our mods are young, and I don't know their opinions about the balance. Personally, I think 11 players is headache. Perhaps, one FM, one promotable symp and one non-promotable symp? Anyway, what do you suggest? [u]I'd say we still need to lynch a suspect,[/u] however late we would found such. If it would mean Vulva dying, so be it, we can't allow him to rule the process with all the time left. We have no real proof vulva is inno, so we shouldn't fuck the day just to keep him alive.[/quote] Nice plan, [u]except we then wouldn't lynch the suspect, we would lynch Vully instead[/u]. You can't have it both ways. Either decide on a suspect while he is awake, or say fuck him and vote elsewhere KNOWING your vote will be nullified and Vully will be lynched. edit: wrong word (live insted of awake) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dayne Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663292' date='Jan 26 2009, 18.10']Well, well doesn't that make you influential. Don't have coherent thoughts about it right now as I'm way past due for a nap. Well maybe just a few impression. [u]If your telling the truth I can't blame you for claiming, otherwise you'd just have to play sheep all game[/u]. Although part of me just isn't buying it either I mean the role as you describe it basically could get you killed for no greater reason then you simply weren't around for a lynch train. Not a really fair role in that case. I'll have to think about it some more, after a good nap that is heh.[/quote] This is what is bothering me about the claim and people's reactions to it. The assertion that Vulva would have a play sheep all game is just nonsense. Compromise beliefs to be sure to get a lynch? Yes. But, that happens every fucking game. Anyways, I believe the claim and I am inclined to believe that he is innocent as well. Mike apparently disagrees, yet he doesn't really give any good reasons for believing there being a compelling, nefarious reason for a reveal (meaning, by a FM or symp). [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663880' date='Jan 27 2009, 09.27']Well Vulva I have to say that there is just something in my head that doesn't completely buy your claim. Although the symp angle wasn't one I had considered before today. That said if your role is as you say it is, I don't particularly blame you for claiming. On the other had its curious that your trying to goad others to claim now. I'm almost tempted to suggest we just go ahead and test you. Lets say to pick some arbitrary numbers there's like 10% chance your lying and 10% chance your FM/Symp. Well in that case its seems decent odds to me on a day one and your role if your telling the truth is basically just kind of a headache anyway. Now mind you I'm just thinking of the top of my head right now. Well actually I suppose to there are a few problems, in order to test you properly we have to make sure we lynched somebody or went to night without you and well I guess you could always swoop in and later on a lynch/night claiming, "Hey I'm innocent why shouldn't I ensure my survival" and you wouldn't be wrong doing that per say. Bit of a pickle really, but I guess we have time yet to figure it out.[/quote] Still he isn't buying the claim. The symp angle is a crock of shit. Yes it would be helpful for a symp to save their master, however now that he's revealed he blew up that ability. We would clearly know why he'd sacrifice himself for his master. It saves them a day, nice..not great. Here, I don't really get the point of randomly pulling percentages out of his arse, basically just bullshit to try and strengthen his belief that we should not believe Vulva. Gives me the feeling of trying to press us to get rid of somebody that is, well not an 'easy target' but a target that is well known to all and therefore does not necessarily look as suspicious to be aiming at. At worst, Mike is part of a crowd that is annoyed at Vulva, at best he gets them lynched. [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663915' date='Jan 27 2009, 09.47']Well there's always a chance that anybody who makes a claim is lying. As for motivations I couldn't begin to guess since I suppose that the possible roles in this game are innumerable. As for goading a role claim you said yourself "don't make us drag it out of you" referring to a role claim. That is a little bit more then just asking for a clarification of what she said.[/quote] Again, dragging his feet trying to press for reasons why the claim would be fake or beneficial for an evil (either a fake or real claim). I also don't buy the interrogation angle on the "goading a role claim". Twist basically claimed that they had to have their vote out their for night for a role, I don't think it is ridiculous to press them when they went about 90% there anyway. If they didn't want to reveal, they wouldn't have said "well I kind of have to :(". [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663923' date='Jan 27 2009, 09.51']See that's the bit that makes me not buy the role itself completely. Its really quite a burden and as has been said only seems really useful for an [u]improbable symp[/u].[/quote] Not promotable do you mean? Improbable? Why would he reveal if he was a symp? Not why would it be useful. [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663945' date='Jan 27 2009, 10.06']Saving his master from dying?[/quote] So why would he reveal? [quote name='Mike Watt' post='1663965' date='Jan 27 2009, 10.18']Nobody, at least I don't think so, because I don't think there is a symp. However Bilbo asked me why your claimed role would be good for a symp, so I answered thus.[/quote] But now, after all these posts...Mike admits that he doesn't even think there is a symp. So why would an FM reveal (and lie?) as you've asserted? I see the benefit for an FM in that we are now accommodating him, however he is very much in the spotlight, a place where FM (at least in the way he is) generally don't like to be. Mike's posts don't come off as genuine to me. After his discussion of how it would be helpful for a symp, and somehow make sense for a symp to reveal, he says that he doesn't even think their is a symp. So then what was the point? He seems like he is trying to look for ways to paint Vulva's reveal as suspicious and/or a lie, but can't back it up. I completely disagree with his reasoning here and on his "goading out reveals" line of argument, and I don't see how it makes sense for an innocent to argue along the lines that he has. So, [b]Mike[/b]. 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House Targaryen Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 It is day 1. 11 players remain: Bilbo, Brian Topp, Daisy, Dexter, Duane, Marsha, Mike Watt, Tim Bisley, Twist, Tyres, Vulva. 6 votes are needed for a conviction or to go to night. 2 votes for Dexter (Tyres, Vulva) 2 votes for Tim Bisley (Mike Watt, Brian Topp) 1 vote for Bilbo (Tim Bisley) 1 vote for Daisy (Duane) 1 vote for Duane (Marsha) 1 vote for Mike Watt (Bilbo) 1 vote for Night (Twist) 2 players have not voted: Daisy, Dexter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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