The Pilot Should be Roberts Rebellion

[Middlejon]

[quote name='Paxter' post='1658884' date='Jan 23 2009, 01.21']Also, leaving the Others out of the opening scenes means that the Gared beheading scene and the subsequent direwolf discovery scene would have to be changed significantly.[/quote]

I don't think there would need to be that much of a change, since the Others won't be appearing properly untill at least the 3rd series (or season or whatever the hell you call it :P), having them appear in the prolouge would seem a bit too long of a wait from foreshadowing something to it actually happening.

The opening could still feature Gared being beheaded, just the series never shows first hand why he's so terrified (just hints at it). Later on in the series and through the second it could start to slowly build up the idea of the Others until it all comes to a head.

[SeriousMite]

Starting out showing the rebellion would be a huge mistake. A big story like this needs a back-story. You shouldn't just start from a clean slate. You need some events that happened in the past that have impacted the characters and made them who they are. If you were to start at the rebellion, then you'd have to invent some more back story. Case in point: the Star Wars prequels. One of the problems (among many) was that all the stuff with Anakin and Obi-Wan and the Empire wiping out all the Jedi were the back-story. When Lucas went back and actually made movies about that, he didn't create any more to replace it. There was no was no hinting at stuff that happened in an earlier generation to set up the current events of the film.

[TheEvilKing]

Bad idea for the series.

However it would make a cool movie. Should be called "The War of the Usurper" or something instead of "Robert's Rebellion" though.

Would only work if the show got picked up [i]and[/i] was a huge success.

[Kingsoze]

I think a better way to introduce the Others would be as a storytelling. Maybe show the events of the prologue to a voice over of Old Nan telling the legend of the Others. They can introduce most of the fantasy aspects of ASOIAF in a similar manner. It makes sense to start it as a story rather than a real event. It deepens the mystery of the disappearances of Night Watch rangers.

A storytelling also goes along with the progression of the fantasy elements of the book. First there are doubts of the existence of the Others (as well as magic and dragons to some extent), then rumors, then they are a reality. The stuff of legends coming to life.

What I liked about the books was that the world seemed almost historical in a sense (except for the seasons of course) and then slowly weened us on to fantasy.

So perhaps we keep the prologue the way it is but at the end of it, convey that it was just an old woman's fable...or perhaps it could turn out to be something more...

[Iaetherlio]

I like the idea of having the series open with Robert's Rebellion, if only for ten or fifteen minutes of the first episode. Along with some history of Westeros, such as the Others and the building of the Wall, the cut to the opening scene from the books. I agree with Kingsoze that Old Nan should do the voiceover because it would seem like it's all fairytale stuff as many in the series actual believe

[crunchb3rry]

There is no need for a prologue. They ARE telling you about Robert's rebellion, but it's done via very small flashbacks which you have to piece together. They reveal only a little bit at a time, intentionally. The series would simply need to film these so as to look like dream sequences.

Robert's rebellion is the stage for a huge secret that my brother discovered and shared with me after I begged him to. It seems to be legit and a spoiler of gargantuan magnitude. Which is why GRRM only gives us bits and pieces of the backstory and only at specific times in the current timeline story.

[The Mance]

[quote name='crunchb3rry' post='1755512' date='Apr 14 2009, 21.56']Robert's rebellion is the stage for a huge secret that my brother discovered and shared with me after I begged him to. It seems to be legit and a spoiler of gargantuan magnitude....[/quote]

Aaaaannd....?

[Blue]

Well, I think it would be cool to open with Robert beating the shit out of Rhaegar, with a voice over explaining about the rebellion, though keeping a lot of it a mystery, just enough so people are not like wtf is going on. Then have it go to Jamie sitting on the throne and Ned coming in and such, then cut to Robert taking the crown. Then have it cut to beyond the wall with a caption saying 15 years later and going along from there. This way it catches people's attention and keep them from changing the channel when the stuff about the Others happen. Any ways, that's my two cents, doubt it will happen though.

[crunchb3rry]

Well, I think it would be cool to open with Robert beating the shit out of Rhaegar, with a voice over explaining about the rebellion, though keeping a lot of it a mystery, just enough so people are not like wtf is going on.

I think it would be more interesting to a viewer (who has not read the books) to initially see Robert as a fat oaf. Then via flashbacks see that he was a great warrior at one time. Make you not care much for the king from the getgo. It would better illustrate why Cersei is so repulsed by him.

SPOILERS BELOW:

The series will probably either open naturally with the Others prologue, or I could see the beheading of the deserter with maybe onlooking Winterfell villagers whispering rumors to eachother about the crazy old fool's ramblings if the producers of the show opt to not even film that scene, then move onto the direwolves discovery. I think the prologue is necessary though, as it pretty much lets the audience know what the Nights Watch is all about, and that most are essentially criminals in a "two strikes" program. But from the point of view of a TV/film production, the entire prologue is completely expendable, if they just opted for a few seconds of "townsfolk gossip" to summarize the entire prologue. That approach would make the audience wonder if the deserter is just full of shit or if there really are some ice monsters encroaching on their land. Probably smarter to do it that way considering the Others don't show up again for a long while after that, then the audience unfamiliar with the books might get confused as to why there was no more focus on some threat that was made so imminent in the very beginning.

SPOILERS ABOVE. ;)

I hope the pilot will just be scenes they will eventually reshoot most of. I remember when the Sopranos came out. Tony had a different accent in the pilot, Meadow was chubby, the mother acted different. Even the visual quality of the pilot was noticeably worse than the second and following episodes.

[Polymeron]

Actually, possibly the smartest thing from a television series approach would be to start from the prologue, but not show us the Others. That is, we see Will climbing up on the tree, we see Royce doing the "who's there" routine... Then we switch to Will again, he looks completely aghast at what he sees below (Royce goes "come no farther" in the background), then we hear a (shorter than originally written) clashing of swords... And all we see is Will closing his eyes and pressing his face against the tree, while the Other's laughter down below and Royce's screams establish horror. Possibly some side-shots give us hints as to what is going on, or a far-shot of the clearing where the Others (and Royce) are only shadowy figures (which shows their number but not identity). Nothing both up-close and direct, though.

The supernatural elements would still be established by Will's manner of death, by later developments such as Othar's hand in the snow... But the audience would forever wonder just what attacked Royce. Unless they read the book, that is :P

Simple, elegant, saves on special effects, too. I haven't directed or produced anything, so my opinion is not an expert one, but that's my take on it.

Just my two cents. I'm sure the script is already written so this is most likely purely academic...

[robs hand]

I think that would be pretty cool but it might not work because we learn a lot about that later in the books, however it could be the sack of Kings Landing, because we learn all about that, there is fighting(keep the degenerates entertained), intro Jaime, show Ned find him, and then we get the whole Stark vs Lannister deal..... IDK i think it could work, but i am not a director so if it is a bad idea dont crucify me.

[The OTHER other]

I think the Trident battle would start out the series with a bang but it would diverge a whole lot from the books. That's OK it's a different medium but I doubt they'll go in this direction. For one thing I bet it would cost a FORTUNE, either with a live cast or with CGI.

[The Joker]

This would be so insanely cool if the pilot were the story of Roberts rebellion. That is a finished Story and could be conceivably be done in a two to four hour special. I like the Story of Roberts rebellion much more. GRRM Rocks!

Hell no. This series can only start with the prologue. For all the reasons that Ooraq listed. Unless they can make the Others look genuinely alien and shocking, yet still within the outlines GRRM provides, it would be well not to show them directly to the viewers. I'm looking for my Others to be mysterious and induce dread please. Make it as an atmospheric chapter in a Stephen King novel (and not like a King ending monster).

Starting with the war of the usurper would derail the entire structure of the story, ruining the vast majority of the mysteries contained therein. A spoiler free version would be about ten minutes long. No, why watch the series if the pilot answers nearly all the questions?

Maybe something like this could work after we get seven successful seasons, after whatever is going to be revealed has been revealed. I'd like to see the actors used in the many many flashbacks we'll hopefully get go and do this. Say the first season is a huge hit and HBO has a surplus of money to throw at the series.... Maybe then would be a good time to film this, in conjunction with the second season.

Probably hugely expensive.

[Silverstar]

The trouble with starting out with Robert's rebellion is that we still don't know all the details of Robert's rebellion. For example, what actually happened at the Tower of Joy?

So to do that, you'd either have to base it all on the details we know up to now, as of AFFC, which would mean adding in extra details that may not tally with the way things turn out to have happened when we discover it in the future books, or they would have to go to GRRM and ask for additional details, which may then lead to a lot of spoilers for future books.

I'm glad they seem to be sticking with the original prologue. Best that way, IMO.

[Cold Hands-Hot Pie]

Actually, possibly the smartest thing from a television series approach would be to start from the prologue, but not show us the Others. That is, we see Will climbing up on the tree, we see Royce doing the "who's there" routine... Then we switch to Will again, he looks completely aghast at what he sees below (Royce goes "come no farther" in the background), then we hear a (shorter than originally written) clashing of swords... And all we see is Will closing his eyes and pressing his face against the tree, while the Other's laughter down below and Royce's screams establish horror. Possibly some side-shots give us hints as to what is going on, or a far-shot of the clearing where the Others (and Royce) are only shadowy figures (which shows their number but not identity). Nothing both up-close and direct, though.

The supernatural elements would still be established by Will's manner of death, by later developments such as Othar's hand in the snow... But the audience would forever wonder just what attacked Royce. Unless they read the book, that is :P

Simple, elegant, saves on special effects, too. I haven't directed or produced anything, so my opinion is not an expert one, but that's my take on it.

Just my two cents. I'm sure the script is already written so this is most likely purely academic...

I actually think this would work great-- not seeing the others at all, just sounds from off screen and Will's and maybe Gared's reaction to it. Then end the scene w/ Waymar and his blue eyes killing Will. The blue eyes will key the fantasy element and will also be their for observant viewers to recall when the wights come back to life in Castle Black.

[Knight o' Pansies]

The prologue must start the series and the Others must be shown as a threat from the very begining, not only without regard to them only showing up again lots of chapters later, but exactly because of it.

They show from the start that there's an external, inhuman threat to the world, and how all this fighting is just plain wrong and useless.

We may rejoice at Robb's victories or Tyrion burning Stannis' fleet, but when you think about it it only serves to weaken humanity.

Also, I don't know about you, but I was wondering when the hell someone outside the NW will understand they actually exist.

Remember Tyrion ignoring it when he was Hand? It only made me want to shout out to him to take Allister's words seriously.

The same is played with Dany's dragons- we get them "early on", from the first book, but even at the end of AFfC nobody in Westeros and many other places takes the reports about them seriously.

And I totally agree with Robert's Rebellion being shown in flashbacks from different PoV's, just like in the books, so you aren't actually certain how true what we "know" of it is.

[Brude]

The pilot, as written, is very close to the book starting with the Prologue and ending with Jaime's line, "the things I do for love."

[Alty]

No do it in flashbacks like the book. After all there might be information about it that we don't even know yet because the books haven't been released that describe it.

[Chairman7w]

I see absolutely no reason to do it different than the books.

[dragon wolf]

Awesome idea!!!

Nan's voice over should occur after the prologue as a bridge to the Starks. Establish Waymer, Gared (establish his normal eye color at this time) and Will as Night Watch on a range beyond the wall_Waymer's battle w/the wight shown in bits_Waymer's initial reaction, steel sword being shattered by the Wight's sword, unnatural blue eyes, Waymer's deathcry_Waymer the ice corpse killing Will, pull in on Waymer's now blue eyes THEN voice over by Nan, fade to Bran's room faintly lit by firelight, talking about Wights, then tells Bran to sleep b/c he has a big day in the morning. Bran closes his eyes mumbling about Wights, opens his eyes it is day and he is on horseback. The POV remains faithful to the book, and the audience is not sure if the opening was just part of a fanciful story UNTIL they recognize Gared.

I think a better way to introduce the Others would be as a storytelling. Maybe show the events of the prologue to a voice over of Old Nan telling the legend of the Others. They can introduce most of the fantasy aspects of ASOIAF in a similar manner. It makes sense to start it as a story rather than a real event. It deepens the mystery of the disappearances of Night Watch rangers.

A storytelling also goes along with the progression of the fantasy elements of the book. First there are doubts of the existence of the Others (as well as magic and dragons to some extent), then rumors, then they are a reality. The stuff of legends coming to life.

What I liked about the books was that the world seemed almost historical in a sense (except for the seasons of course) and then slowly weened us on to fantasy.

So perhaps we keep the prologue the way it is but at the end of it, convey that it was just an old woman's fable...or perhaps it could turn out to be something more...