Urban Fantasy?

[Larry.]

Tim Pratt's begun writing an urban fantasy series that's fairly well-received. I read the first novel a year or two ago and it was good, although much different from his short stories (which I enjoyed quite a bit). I'll try to think of others later.

[Myshkin]

I too am having a hard time getting my urban fantasy fix without running into vampire pr0n. To the op, it sounds like you [i]really[/i] need to read Jim Butcher. Other than that I love the Night Watch series, I've heard Charlie Huston is great (but don't feel like paying $15 for an extremely poor quality publication), and Mike Carry's first Felix Castor novel was ok but didn't make me want to pick up the rest of the series. I just bought [i]Black Magic Woman[/i] by Justin Gustainis, which I'm hoping will get me my fix.

[RedEyedGhost]

[quote name='Myshkin' post='1660592' date='Jan 23 2009, 22.41']I've heard Charlie Huston is great (but don't feel like paying $15 for an extremely poor quality publication)[/quote]

[url="http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/WEBSITE/WWW/WEBPAGES/showbook.php?id=1841495263"]Get the UK version for £5.21 from the book depository.[/url] Plus the UK covers are cooler. What the hell are you waiting on already? :P

[Myshkin]

[quote name='RedEyedGhost' post='1660620' date='Jan 23 2009, 22.25'][url="http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/WEBSITE/WWW/WEBPAGES/showbook.php?id=1841495263"]Get the UK version for £5.21 from the book depository.[/url] Plus the UK covers are cooler. What the hell are you waiting on already? :P[/quote]
Ok, you win. Charlie Huston will be added to my next book depository order. How'd you like [i]Thunderer[/i]?

[RedEyedGhost]

[quote name='Myshkin' post='1660626' date='Jan 23 2009, 23.32']Ok, you win. Charlie Huston will be added to my next book depository order. How'd you like [i]Thunderer[/i]?[/quote]

It was pretty damn good, and I'll be reading [u]Gears of the City[/u] sooner rather than later (it's already on the shelf). Here's my comments after reading it:

[quote]Great book. I have a really hard time classifying this book: it's very epic in scope, but wouldn't qualify as what most people consider "epic fantasy", while there is enough to classify it as secondary world fantasy it may just be a different manifestation of our own world, it also has strong elements of steampunk - so, I guess the best way to describe it would be as it is described on the front cover "A Novel of High Fantasy". This is a quite vague classification, but it works, as does the wonderful mishmash of styles. If you read my other comments you may be surprised that I enjoyed this so much considering Felix sites Viriconium as a major influence, and that was very recognizable throughout the book (I also got a strong Perdido Street Station vibe). I've been pretty verbal in my loathing of Viriconium, and while they share some of the same themes, I think Thunderer succeeds where Viriconium fails miserably - character development, plotting, and coherence. In Viriconium's defense (... omg I can't believe I just typed that) Thunderer tells just one tale, and not even all of that, where Viriconium attempted to tell several. It's not the best novel I've read this year, but it's definitely in the top 10. I realize this is just a rambling mess, but Viriconium gives me involuntary diarrhea of the mouth (or fingers as the case may be).

Now I should probably talk a little bit about Thunderer The story has three main POVs: Arjun - a foreigner that comes to Ararat a city of gods to search for his god that has gone absent from his home far in the south, Jack - a 15 year old boy that, while breaking out of the workhouse he has been trapped in, harnesses the power of a god, and Arlandes - the captain of the Thunderer, an airship that harnessed the same power that Jack did. In the massive city of Ararat (with all of its infinite possibilities) this tale focuses on the Countess Ilona's small corner as a god becomes corrupted, and as the Countess becomes mad with the power of the Thunderer.

It wasn't a perfect book, and in particular I wish that the corrupted god had been portrayed in a more menacing manner, and the pacing could have been a bit more even.[/quote]

Arjun was by far my favorite character and the blurb for GotC sounds great.





^^^^^ This isn't off topic, btw, as [u]Thunderer[/u] is also definitely urban and definitely fantasy.

[mashiara]

[quote name='RedEyedGhost' post='1660620' date='Jan 24 2009, 08.25'][url="http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/WEBSITE/WWW/WEBPAGES/showbook.php?id=1841495263"]Get the UK version for £5.21 from the book depository.[/url] Plus the UK covers are cooler. What the hell are you waiting on already? :P[/quote]

Heh. I just ordered that yesterday. :)

[RedEyedGhost]

[quote name='mashiara' post='1660634' date='Jan 23 2009, 23.42']Heh. I just ordered that yesterday. :)[/quote]

Great fucking purchase. It's a fucking great book! :thumbsup:



Just getting you ready for Charlie Huston. :leaving:

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

I think they've all been mentioned before, but:

Carrie Vaughn - yes, fun.
Patricia Briggs - Ditto
Jim Butcher - Ditto
Kim Harrison - Dittoish, but less fun then they are.
MLN Hanover - Is actually Daniel Abraham, and worth your money.
Mike Carey - C'mon, it's Mike Carey. Go read his stuff.
Liz Williams - Definitely one of the more literate UF types. Also one of the least cookie-cutterish, as she's stealing from Chinese and Indian (er, South Asia, not the American) mythology.


Decommended:
LA Banks - there was some noise made on some other board about the authenticity of the characters' 'ghetto speak' being a hurdle. No. I <3 The Wire; 'ghetto speak' isn't a problem for me. This doesn't read like 'ghetto speak', it reads like a middle class black woman faking it. I don't know whether or not that's the case; if it isn't, she simply lacks the talent to translate her presumed knowledge of the spoken vernacular into the written word.
Jordan Summers - Red is pretty bad. Stupid Scalzi and his stupid guest writer thing on his blog. Grumble.

[Maia]

[quote name='thebadlady' post='1660357' date='Jan 23 2009, 20.27']1. Kim Harrison <---my favorite.[/quote]

Yes, pretty fun. I'd say that the quality is about on par with the early Dresden Files books.

[quote]3. Lilith Saintcrow <---dark, very dark[/quote]

That's the least of her problems, though. I have read the lady's stuff after her column on Pat's hotlist and IMHO her "Dante Valentine" books are a parade example for the reasons why "angry chicks in leather (not to forget saddled with romance)" books are seen with scepticism.
First of all, while her writing isn't uniformly bad, she repetitively uses some really godawful expressions i.e. "voice of a sex-godess", "face of a holovid-angel" (and why did she feel the need to provide her heroine with those, hm? Pretty objectifying, IMHO), etc.
Then her heroine is a queen bee, who assembles a posse of male protectors and in fact derives most of her power from her demon boyfriend.
And here we come to the so-called romance. Not only does it regularly come in the way of what could have been a really interesting story, but it is a "life-bond" and the demon boyfriend is a controlling, lying, manipulative jerk, who basically forced it on the heroine in the first place.

The thing is, that it obviously could have been so much better. The worldbuilding is interesting, there is a decent plot striving to get out, the heroine is screwed up in interesting ways, etc. But most of it is sacrificed for "will they, won't they" get a happily ever after in their romantic relationship.
And all of the heroine's very reasonable objections to the actions of her demon-lover are presented in this way - she doesn't trust in his love enough (blergh!), he makes some misjudgements about her reactions, because he doesn't understand humans well enough (ugh).
Finally, the heroine needs to be totally broken and deconstructed, so that she'd finally leave all decisions in her lover's capable claws.

Empowering? Liberating? Satisfying? I beg to differ.

[needle]

For something completely different, try [b]The Good Fairies of New York[/b], by[b] Martin Millar[/b]. It's not dark at all, but it's a lot of fun. And it's not fluff. Or at least, not in a chicks in leather kind of way.

[Guest thebadlady]

Maia, exactly that re: saintcrow. It could have been soooo much better than it was, at least that bit of the series. I do enjoy her other books, which are only loosely serial much more. She has some really interesting takes on paranormal talent.

If you think that wasn't all it should be, have you tried Michelle Sagara West's Elantra series? It was very different than other series I have read from that vein and of course I love Michelle West's Sun Sword series (however the Elantra series is quite a bit different).

[Myshkin]

[quote name='RedEyedGhost' post='1660633' date='Jan 23 2009, 22.41']It was pretty damn good, and I'll be reading [u]Gears of the City[/u] sooner rather than later (it's already on the shelf). Here's my comments after reading it:

Arjun was by far my favorite character and the blurb for GotC sounds great.[/quote]
I'm reading GotC right now, and loving it.

[Frost92]

[quote name='Poobah' post='1659693' date='Jan 23 2009, 12.39']Just the fact that he's banging out a good quality Dresden Files book every year(aprox. 350 - 500 pages paperback), and is writing another series (haven't had a chance to read any of these yet), plus the occasional Dresden Files novelette is reason enough for me to keep reading.[/quote]


Butcher's other fantasy series...The Codex of Alera is [i]very[/i] good. Definitely worth checking out. I have not read the Dresden books, but plan to hopefully soon. I'll probably finish reading the Alera series books first, then start reading Dresden. I did watch some episodes from the Dresden TV series...I hope the books are better than the TV show.

[emberling]

I'd tried to pick up Dresden Files and found little to grip me beyond the first couple chapters and ended up putting it down. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

Surprised nobody's mentioned [i]Sunshine[/i]. Realized I forgot about it when I posted. Another goodie.

Charlaine Harris is among those I've tried (read the first book) and found mediocre at best. No inclination to pick up the next book.

Picked up a Kelley Armstrong book (Dime Store Magic) in the bookstore yesterday looking for my fix and found it quite readable, enough to plow through it and three more by now. Nothing spectacular, but probably the most solid offering I've encountered among the more traditional areas of the genre... which isn't saying a whole lot. Also picked up a pair of books that were readable but so forgettable that I can't remember their names or author at all two days after the fact -- wait, the second was named "Pure Blood." About a werewolf police officer. Not too good. Says something about my mood, though, that I read six of these within three days, eh?

I'm a huge fan of the Chronicles of Elantra. I don't really put it in the same mental box as any of the rest of this stuff - after all, it's not set on Earth and has no vampires or werewolves in sight - but I guess it's closer to this than it is to anything else.

Martin Millar is decent? [i]Lonely Werewolf Girl[/i] caught my eye in the shop, but I think I wasn't too attracted by the back cover. But then, that hardly means anything.

Sounds like my next move, based on what I've seen around at the local store, is to either check out Carrie Vaughn, Kim Harrison, or give Butcher another shot. Which one will probably depend on which have the first book in stock, if any.

[Gigei]

[quote name='seastarr' post='1659513' date='Jan 23 2009, 10.44']I hesitate to say "good" (it's such a general and subjective term) but The Outlander Series gripped me and had me reading like a fiend, especially for the first three books--Outlander, Dragonfly in Amber, and Voyager by Diana Gabaldon. They aren't genre romances, but they are definitely books centered around a love relationship and how it develops. I really enjoyed the first three in the series. Got stuck on book #4...

This isn't urban fantasy at all though. I have never found any urban fantasy that I actually enjoyed.[/quote]

Good lord...

SPOILER: rofl

Isn't that the one with the spanking and the man-rape? I would avoid it at all costs.

[RedEyedGhost]

[quote name='needle' post='1660745' date='Jan 24 2009, 05.28']For something completely different, try [b]The Good Fairies of New York[/b], by[b] Martin Millar[/b]. It's not dark at all, but it's a lot of fun. And it's not fluff. Or at least, not in a chicks in leather kind of way.[/quote]


[quote name='kurokaze' post='1661404' date='Jan 24 2009, 19.30']Martin Millar is decent? [i]Lonely Werewolf Girl[/i] caught my eye in the shop, but I think I wasn't too attracted by the back cover. But then, that hardly means anything.[/quote]

I really liked [u]The Good Fairies of New York[/u], and [u]Lonely Werewolf Girl[/u] is good too (but I didn't like it as much). [u]Lonely Werewolf Girl[/u] was a little cartoonish, but I am quite surprised at how much it has stuck with me. I think it's stuck because of the unusual style. I'd say it's worth checking out [url="http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0979663660/ref=sib_dp_pt#reader-link"]the first three chapters at amazon[/url] (and a little of the forth). It looks like it starts in the middle of chapter 1, but that is the beginning of the book.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

[quote]Also picked up a pair of books that were readable but so forgettable that I can't remember their names or author at all two days after the fact -- wait, the second was named "Pure Blood." About a werewolf police officer. Not too good. Says something about my mood, though, that I read six of these within three days, eh?[/quote]

Man, that one pissed me off. "Boy, I really shouldn't be having sexual relations with a murder suspect. Oh well."

[Poobah]

[quote name='Frost92' post='1661278' date='Jan 25 2009, 01.03']Butcher's other fantasy series...The Codex of Alera is [i]very[/i] good. Definitely worth checking out. I have not read the Dresden books, but plan to hopefully soon. I'll probably finish reading the Alera series books first, then start reading Dresden. I did watch some episodes from the Dresden TV series...I hope the books are better than the TV show.[/quote]

I hear very bad things about that TV show, and that it's mostly unrelated to the books too :(

-Poobs

[Maia]

[quote name='kurokaze' post='1661404' date='Jan 24 2009, 21.30']Surprised nobody's mentioned [i]Sunshine[/i]. Realized I forgot about it when I posted. Another goodie.[/quote]

Oh, yes! I liked Sunshine, although it does have a somewhat unsatisfying ending, IMHO. But... I felt that the romance aspect was clumsily shoehorned in yet again. I mean, there was that unique relationship and then a neon sign - "Possibility of romance!", despite any internal plausibility.

I dunno, the more I think about it the more I realize that I like very few fictional romances and generally the more space they take, the more importance they have to the narrative, the less I tend to like them. And it isn't that I am opposed to the notion of romance or think that adventures and danger aren't conducive to it.
IMHO, RL (tm) conclusively shows that shared danger often leads to romance, sometimes a lifelong one. Yet for some reason I find the romantical relationships found in biographies, autobiographies and other non-fiction much more compelling than most of what fiction has to offer on that score. Maybe because life doesn't try to ensure a "happily ever after" at any cost? Maybe because there aren't such silly tropes as "life-bonds", by whichever name a writer tends to introduce them and relationships tend to have much more complexity? I dunno.

Rare exceptions where I did like happy romance in speculative fiction (SF) were Bujold's Cordelia Naismith duology and the that of Valerius and Alixiana in Kay's "God of Emperors". I am more lenient with tragical romances, but SF tends to shy away from tragedy nowadays, unless it does a re-write of some pre-existing story or leans heavily on some historical events.

Yet, female authors feel almost pressured to include a lengthy romance witha happy ending. Looking at the list of "must reads in SF" one can easily understand why. After all, quality doesn't seem to get them recognition or inclusion in selective lists, whereas romance at least brings readers.


[quote]I'm a huge fan of the Chronicles of Elantra.[/quote]

I will have to look into it. Never heard about them before this thread.

[Joanna vander Poele]

[quote name='Elrostar' post='1659837' date='Jan 23 2009, 11.00']So how come no-one has mentioned Twilight yet? :leaving:
:lol:[/quote]
'Cuz no one wants to get shot.

[quote name='Gigei' post='1661412' date='Jan 24 2009, 18.45']Good lord...

SPOILER: rofl

Isn't that the one with the spanking and the man-rape? I would avoid it at all costs.

[/quote]
You have a habit of reading those kind of books, I've noticed... :P