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Venardhi

A script review. - SPOILERS

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[quote name='baxus' post='1678210' date='Feb 7 2009, 12.43']the one thing that seemed off was that everyone in the script took for granted that jaime and ned were two best fighters in the land...
the impression i got from the book was that ned's main military strength was his ability to command and inspire loyalty in people, not his sword...[/quote]
This was one of my few gripes with the script. Ned is not described as an exceptional fighter...plus that line about why he doesn't fight in tourneys was awful. Hope that gets changed.

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A few things like that bothered me, but for the most part it's a decent script.

Kind of a bummer they removed the "When can a man be brave" and "Girls get the arms but not the swords, bastards get the swords but not the arms" lines. ..And the needle line, but hey Especially in favor for some of the Cersei/Catelyn stuff. (I have a good idea, let's give two of the most hated characters more lines, they'll love it!)

I'll admit I liked the Jaime/Tyrion brothel scene, and "She has talent" I hope they keep those.

Other than that some things seem inconsistent, and I'm still not sold on aging up Robb and Jon especially. (It REALLY makes the whole Joff/Robb scene awkward.)

But hey, there's always time to improve it. It has some solid stuff, it just needs some fine tuning.

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[quote name='Red Viper of Dorne' post='1678245' date='Feb 7 2009, 11.42']This was one of my few gripes with the script. Ned is not described as an exceptional fighter...plus that line about why he doesn't fight in tourneys was awful. Hope that gets changed.[/quote]

Agreed. Actually, most of the problems I have are with the handling of Ned: his "face-off" with Jaime, his dropping-to-one-knee acceptance of Hand, the rest of exchange with Robert in the crypt (on Ned's side; Robert was written true to character), his conversations with Cat and Bran...

Really, it seems like they're trying to make Ned seem more badass and less black-and-white Starkman honorable. Which is a shame, because in the books he makes such a great contrast for so many of the dishonorable or "gray" characters.

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come to think of it, these changes of ned may be in order to make him look much more powerful and dominating so that viewers will be more shocked when he dies...

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I think the adding of the Tyrion-Jamie whore scene in the beginning flows very nicely with the story, and is the perfect way to introduce Tyrion. "I care about small folk" "Only the ones with good tits" brought out a chuckle.

And I agree that Jon's dialogue about the 5 true-born children is very awkward. And I don't like how they changed the dialogue when Jon finds Ghost. Instead of "I think not Greyjoy, it belongs to me," its just "It belongs to me."

And where the FRAK was "This is the only time a man can be brave." I'm not sure I want to read any more.

For anyone who has read the whole thing, do they include the "all dwarves are bastards, but not all bastards need be dwarves," line?

I'm both optimistic and worried at the momenty. :unsure:

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Why are people upset that Ned drops to one knee when he's offered the handship? He drops to one knee in the book, as well. Am I misunderstanding something?

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The part where Ned tells Catelyn that he is not her dog to command really rubbed me the wrong way. I feel like they should save those comments for Sandor and Sandor only. Also what was wrong with the other line "the others take the both of you"?

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[quote name='TrevorLahey' post='1678320' date='Feb 7 2009, 12.21']Why are people upset that Ned drops to one knee when he's offered the handship? He drops to one knee in the book, as well. Am I misunderstanding something?[/quote]
It is an awkward transition. They're acting like friends and equals up to that point of the scene and then suddenly he feels the need to kneel and break out the formalities while they're alone in the crypt, not to mention on their way somewhere. . . just odd.

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If they portray Ned as a great fighter, I will be very angry. Omg, how about the Hound? We don't get to see how good he really is to around the Hand's tourney and then ACOK but portraying Ned as one of the best would be bad.

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I was very impressed with the script. Obviously it was going to be a difficult task for anyone to attempt to take these books and put them on the screen, but the script has found a way to not only stay mostly true to the book, but also put their own touch to the story.

Can't wait to see the series.

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after reading it, i think a lot of people are being overly nitpicky. i thought i'd be upset about the brave line being cut but i wasn't. i liked the brothel scene, the only thing out of place was Jamie leering but it's not dialog so if the actor has read the books then we're safe. the "i'm not your dog" line seemed ooc for Ned and i too am against the idea that he's a great fighter. but that really was it.

i'm immensly happy overall with the job they've done. considering the butchering that can happen in adaptations, this i can certainly live with and be pleased. i really liked the Cat/Cercei exchanged. it showed Cercei speaking with another highborn lady of respect... one that believed she would marry one man only to be dumped on another. it was a nice added touch. i also really liked that they showed Jamie as grey early. it makes his character seem more interesting and people will want to keep watching to know more about him.

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The script is, as a whole, adequate enough. Though there were some things that irritated me.

- the change of the end of the prologue. Completely uncalled for, and worse, I fear that it will be confusing. People must know that men killed by the Others become zombies with creepy blue eyes. It's important a bit later on in the first book. Also, the changing of some of the lines seemed pointless at moments. "The King shits and the Hand wipes" comes to mind, I can't understand why they didn't left it as it is. Funny enough, there is more profanity in the script than there was in the book.

- the ages are messed up a bit. I get that the Stark kids should be older, there is no problem with that, and with them, Ned as well. But... [i][u]Benjen. Should. [b]Not[/b]. Be. Older. Than. Ned.[/u][/i] What's the point in that? It's not harder to find an unknown guy in his 30s than a one in his 40s. Also, Sandor should not be aged up with almost 10 years. His thing with Sansa would be disturbing enough as it is, no need to complicate things even more. But, of course, Dany is still 15 and she has a freaking nude scene with a man in his 30s, which makes you wonder what's the whole point of the aging up. I hope that they will have those things fixed when the whole thing is ready.

- the new scenes, for the most part, are nice. Thumbs up for the introduction of Jaime and Tyrion, they made me laugh aloud. The introduction of Cersei, Pycelle and the body of Jon Arryn is also good. But the confrontation between Ned and Jaime in Winterfell is completely unnecessary and forced. One of the key things about Jaime is that he keeps his loathing of the unfairness that was dealt to him with the murder of Aerys to himself. He doesn't go around complaining like a ditz.

- the characterization of some of the characters is good. Of others... not so much. It seems that David & Dan have tried to force Ned into being more badass than he actually was in the book. He's not an awesome warrior, nor he is a crazy military type of guy that constantly looks around for ambushes and such. But it's understandable, in a way, cause he's gonna be the main character in the first season and he must be as interesting to the public as possible. Dany seemed like a horribly meek and weak person, while in the book she had more inner strength and wisdom that she kept to herself. I suppose that this problem comes from the fact that we just can't read the characters' minds in the TV series. Theon had a little rant against Robb when they found the pups, which struck me as kinda strange, cause these guys are best friends in the book. The others are good. Thumbs up for Cersei, Robert, Tyrion and Jon. For now they seem exactly like they should.

All in all, the script is not a bad at all and it is faithful to the book with the important stuff and a lot of details. But when there are changes, some of them seem forced and pointless. Some, though, not all. I think that if they find good actors and make quality visualisation, it may pass the test of the pilot.

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I'm still reading the script (on page 37), but I just want to mention: WTF is up with that lame conversation between Ned and Jamie at the Winterfell feast? That entire confrontation was really, really cheesy and I hope the remove the entire thing.

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I kind of like "The Kind shits and the Hand wipes line. It actually makes more sense to me than the original. Especially in Ned's case since all he does as hand is attempt to clean up Robert's mess.
Ned's not a great warrior? I never really understood this line of thinking either. Maybe he doesn't flaunt his ability like Jaime and so many other knights do, but the guy did take on most of the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy and live to tell about it.
The scene with Jon and the direwolves might be a too forced, but rememebr this is tv. Viewers will need to be filled in more quickly than in the books. There wont be an appendix we can readily flip to to help us keep track of the show.
All in all I am very excited about what I read. It is extremely faithful to the books in my opinion. Probably moreso than any other novel to series translation that I have watched. Also, its an early script. I hope the writers read all the fans opinions and make changes where they are able to when its appropriate and cost effective to do so.

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[quote]I never really understood this line of thinking either. Maybe he doesn't flaunt his ability like Jaime and so many other knights do, but the guy did take on most of the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy and live to tell about it.[/quote]

You make it sound like he fought them single-handedly. ;) He and his companions had a 7 to 3 advantage, and yet only two of them survived. Moreover, he explicitly says he would have died if it hadn't been for Howland Reed.

At best we can say.... he survived, and he fought, and he's no coward. But I'd say he's a competent swordsman. This makes him better trained and capable than most men in Westeros.

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[quote name='Prince of the North' post='1678125' date='Feb 7 2009, 11.02']But that's just it! If they make Benjen older just to accentuate the sacrifice of joining the NW then they take away much of the impact of the "reveal" of Aemon Targaryen as Maester Aemon. That, in turn, would lessen much of the punch of Jon's and Aemon's conversation about oaths, honor, etc. I think, when we learned just who Aemon is, that's the moment when we are supposed to say to ourselves "OMG, this guy could have been King and he gave it up!!!"[/quote]

That's a good point.

Plus, I thought Benjen didn't fight in Robert's Rebellion because (1) he was younger / too young, and (2) there must always be a Stark in Winterfell? For the script's description to work, Benjen would have already joined the NW when Aerys killed Brandon and Rickard, and therefore abandoned his right to inherit. In which case Ned left Winterfell Starkless when he lead his army south. For that matter, so did Rickard when he went to King's Landing, with Ned in the Eyrie, Benjen at the Wall, and Lyanna lost in the south. I'm sure there are ways to explain around this (maybe Rickard's lady wife is enough of a Stark?), but at least things are much simpler if Benjen is younger.

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Yeah, there is just [i]no point [/i]in making Benjen older. None at all. I hope that it's a simple mistake of ignorance that can be corrected by GRRM, not a forced attempt for a change for the sake of change.

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unless the series explicitly states both Neds and Benjens ages at some point i really don't see what everyone is complaining about. the ages are never mentioned in the books, maybe they just want someone who's spent years on the wall to have a harder look to him.

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I'm hoping much of the clunky new dialogue is tweaked for the revised script. Also, I'm extremely concerned about screen time. Many people get lost in the novel even with the chapters and chapters dedicated character building. It's going to be hard for many to care about the characters with shit moving as fast as it does in that pilot script. I think it's about half and again too much material squashed in there.

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