Amras Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Superb list, Stego! I did a quick count and came up with having read 27 of 'em. If any list deserves becoming one of those silly memes, it's certainly this one. One small gripe though: I'd argue that there are several graphic novels that are far better than "Preacher" by Garth Ennis & Steve Dillon. Sure, the three first volumes of that series are f*cking fantastic, but it just doesn't come close to stuff like "Transmetropolitan" by Warren Ellis & Darick Robertson or "Y: The Last Man" by BKV & Pia Guerra, or if we're talking smaller series; "V for Vendetta", "Watchmen" or "From Hell" by Alan Moore & various. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 Those all make the longer list, man. I just loves me some Preacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='scrahan' post='1698265' date='Feb 24 2009, 14.16']Heinlein was pretty right-wing libertarian, but I doubt anybody described by Philip K. Dick as "the best in humanity" would be a fascist of any sort.[/quote] Heinlein had a lot of changes in his politics throughout his lifetime. If anyone is difficult to paste a label on, it would be him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 OK, I'm going to elaborate more on this later in the evening on my blog (since such things and thoughts ought to get maximum airing out, no? ;)), but what I noticed about this list (and I've read/own 43) is that almost without exception a particular type of fantasy is left out (excluding Danielewski and Miéville). I would argue that any substantial list of SF/F that wants to cover all the main "veins" or types ought to include examples of the weird, dark, atmospheric. Peake's absence from the top 100 was startling considering how many authors today (including Miéville, who was listed) cite him, Angela Carter, and M. John Harrison, among others. Sometimes, a lush, atmospheric type of prose helps readers unmoor themselves from the constraints of "reality," leaving them receptive to stories that are fantastical in the sense that it isn't as bound by "world" constraints as a work of hard SF or epic fantasy might be. Neglecting those authors on a list that aims to cover the sweep of SF/F works is an oversight... ...or those just aren't someone's favorite works ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kcf Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Dylanfanatic' post='1698322' date='Feb 24 2009, 12.53']...or those just aren't someone's favorite works ;)[/quote] well, it is Stego's list, so the absence of a style that he (presumably) doesn't care for isn't surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Dylanfanatic' post='1698322' date='Feb 24 2009, 14.53']OK, I'm going to elaborate more on this later in the evening on my blog (since such things and thoughts ought to get maximum airing out, no? ;)), but what I noticed about this list (and I've read/own 43) is that almost without exception a particular type of fantasy is left out (excluding Danielewski and Miéville). I would argue that any substantial list of SF/F that wants to cover all the main "veins" or types ought to include examples of the weird, dark, atmospheric. Peake's absence from the top 100 was startling considering how many authors today (including Miéville, who was listed) cite him, Angela Carter, and M. John Harrison, among others. Sometimes, a lush, atmospheric type of prose helps readers unmoor themselves from the constraints of "reality," leaving them receptive to stories that are fantastical in the sense that it isn't as bound by "world" constraints as a work of hard SF or epic fantasy might be. Neglecting those authors on a list that aims to cover the sweep of SF/F works is an oversight... ...or those just aren't someone's favorite works ;)[/quote] Not an oversight at all. This type of fantasy does not appeal to a lot of people. That's why Peake and Moorcock and Harrison don't sell. Talented? Sure. Enjoyable? Yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsnake Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Preacher hardly belongs on the same list as some of those other works. It's complete shit and Ennis has done better-granted he's done worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 True, just as hard SF and epic fantasies don't appeal to a lot of people as well who do like the dark, weirdish fantasies of the past century or two. But from what I recall, Moorcock sold quite well in the 1970s and Peake and MJH have had an influence on quite a few authors who have sold decent numbers of their books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Dylanfanatic' post='1698343' date='Feb 24 2009, 15.09']True, just as hard SF and epic fantasies don't appeal to a lot of people as well who do like the dark, weirdish fantasies of the past century or two. But from what I recall, Moorcock sold quite well in the 1970s and Peake and MJH have had an influence on quite a few authors who have sold decent numbers of their books.[/quote] Don't let me shit on your epic pooh, but.... it's a very small subset of folks who like that stuff. Moorcock was never a big seller. Mieville sold decent numbers, but he's not getting rich on his books anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stego Posted February 24, 2009 Author Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Lightsnake' post='1698341' date='Feb 24 2009, 15.08']Preacher hardly belongs on the same list as some of those other works. It's complete shit and Ennis has done better-granted he's done worse.[/quote] You're entitled to that opinion. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Great list! No [i]Sandman[/i] comics by Gaiman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsnake Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 And you're entitled to 60 issues of listening to Ennis trying to gross you out with how juvenile he can be or show how much smarter he is than his reader. I mean, hell, the man's got talent, but he squanders it. While I usually find myself on a common ground with you, Ste, and really like places of the list-and it's given me some new stuff to go look at...seriously man, Preacher on a list with Gaiman, Moore, Tolkien and all? For shame, sir. For shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsnake Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Nadie' post='1698382' date='Feb 24 2009, 15.45']Great list! No [i]Sandman[/i] comics by Gaiman?[/quote] They're on the extended list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Lightsnake' post='1698386' date='Feb 24 2009, 16.46']They're on the extended list[/quote] Ah. I see that they are. :thumbsup: As for [i]Preacher[/i], I liked the initial concept, but I didn't dig the ending so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
needle Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Stego' post='1697858' date='Feb 24 2009, 14.19']I love the book. This isn't a list of the best SFF ever written, just the ones I recommend you read. And I don't much recommend Pynchon. You can handle Pynchon. Martha and Doug can handle it. Julie and Ness and Fee. But most of these yokels? Come on. Bronn reads this forum, for fucks sake. Doc Smith is hard to read these days. And sorry, Mike, Burroughs was never my thing. Try not to hate me too much.[/quote] Dude, you flatter me. The only Pynchon I've read was half of Mason & Dixon. It bored me shitless and I never looked back :P I'm ashamed to say I've only read 49. I'm not a big list analyser but...two Tim Powers? I told you to stop reading that guy:p And no Verner Vinge? ( yeah, yeah, prolly on the big list. But Fire upon the deep/Deepness in the sky are two of the best sci-fi novels ever) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookWyrm Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Stego' post='1697913' date='Feb 24 2009, 10.18']^ What He said. The Wizard Knight was one of the most captivating experiences I have ever experienced between the covers of a book.[/quote] I love you forever for that. [i]Wizard Knight[/i] was and is (I'm rereading it now) amazing. [quote name='Jaqen the FatManderly' post='1697961' date='Feb 24 2009, 10.55']One omission is [b][i]The Hobbit[/i][/b], which would be my top SFF recommendation. I think it's better than LOTR -- but I know a lot of other people see it as kiddie lit.[/quote] I love you forever now too. Besides adding [i]the Hobbit[/i], I would put the [i]Lyonesse Trilogy[/i] (Jack Vance) in there, but I'm not sure if you've read it. Overall I think it's a good list. You've got good taste Stego. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry. Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Stego' post='1698363' date='Feb 24 2009, 14.27']Don't let me shit on your epic pooh, but.... it's a very small subset of folks who like that stuff. Moorcock was never a big seller. Mieville sold decent numbers, but he's not getting rich on his books anytime soon.[/quote] I don't think it's as tiny of a subset as you say, considering the reprints of the Elric stories and other related works coming back into print. And define "rich," as it seems his upcoming novel is getting quite a bit of support from his publishers. I'm curious to see if the printing run will be over 100K this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BookWyrm Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 [quote name='Triskele' post='1698514' date='Feb 24 2009, 17.21']I'm excited to see Wolfe's Wizard Knight. I loved New Sun but am having a helluva time getting into Long Sun so I'm thinking I might try WK.[/quote] Hope you like it! it's much more of a straight-up fantasy story than the New Sun, or seemingly any other Wolfe work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunhallym Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Nice lists. I was very glad to see Ambrose Bierce appear on the second one. I remember reading some of his short stories in the library when I was in High School and almost getting expelled because I burst out laughing. I've always have a fond spot for him ever since. Also very nice to see the Neverending Story, which has been my nb 1 when I was a kid/teenager. Now, I have 1 question and one nitpick (is that the correct word?). Maybe it's a language thing, but reading "The Master and the Margarita" shocks me since for me Margarita is a name, but A Margarita is a cocktail :P Has it been translated this way in English or is it a typo? And for the question: I see you've put one of Théophile Gautier's short stories in your list. I was wondering if you had read some from Guy de Maupassant, who has written a lot of (in my opinion) excellent "contes fantastiques" (fantastic ? tales, seems to match with your Horror label). Marcel Aymé has also written some very good ones (especially in "Le Passe-Murailles" "The Man Who Walked Through Walls"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beniowa Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 [quote name='Stego' post='1697881' date='Feb 24 2009, 08.44']Beni, can you email it to me? I lost it in a reformat. williamlexner at gmail[/quote] Will, sorry I didn't get back to you sooner! Glad to see Xray was able to get it to you. [quote name='kcf' post='1698172' date='Feb 24 2009, 12.27']I just love how the first entry jumps out at you So many possible meanings...[/quote] I loved that too. I'm sure Joe will as well. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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