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The Hound's Bastard

Quality Actor for The Hound

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Yeah, Clarke is great, hiLARious in Armageddon too! LOL, but you can't just go arbitrarily changing the color of main characters, just because an actor is good. Jalabar Xo is black, we know that. The Clegane boys, not so much. If the Cleganes were black, I'm of the opinion Martin would have let that little detail slip out.

"Hey - let's have Tyrion be green!!! Well, it never actually said he WASN'T in the books...."

He's suggesting the Cleganes be black. Which in my opinion isn't great, because they're from the lannister lands, which are mostly blondes.

And Michael Clarke Duncan is excellent. Have you seen The Green Mile?

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In this particular case, I think I could live with it.

There is nothing intrinsically white to the characters so that that they couldn't be descended from Summer Islanders or other dark-skinned peoples of the world, and Lannisport is a center for commerce in the west, and a major port for the area and thusly would attract more immigrants than the Vale or Riverrun for example. Considering the family was originally of low class and were only raised to lordship recently, there is nothing that really stands in the way of either character still remaining completely true to their literary counterparts. Having a 7+ foot brutal black sociopath with no redeeming qualities surrounded by white 'heroes' might raise a few eyebrows from the P.C. crowd though. I wouldn't exactly encourage it, but I see no reason it couldn't work.

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Wait, wait, wait.

You're the guy bitching about how Robert looks wrong.

But now you want two black guys to play two characters coming from an area in which almost everyone is white and blond? And considering the fact that those two characters look alike (being brother), you want two actors who look NOTHING alike to play them.

The Irony Is Stabbing Me In The Throat Repeatedly.

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I never said use those specific actors.

You're missing my point entirely regarding both Robert and the Cleganes. Appearance relevant to the character is important, where it is not relevant, it is not important to stay entirely accurate. I can rationalize how a man from the summer isles came to work for house Lannister as master of hounds, rescued the lord from a lion, and was raised up in recognition, later bore sons, etc. Other than their skin tone, their characters would remain untouched. For the sake of not raising eyebrows, throw in a few other black actors here and there in minor southern/coastal roles and you wouldn't even have to explain it any. Plus, you open up your talent pool considerably.

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I never said use those specific actors.

You're missing my point entirely regarding both Robert and the Cleganes. Appearance relevant to the character is important, where it is not relevant, it is not important to stay entirely accurate. I can rationalize how a man from the summer isles came to work for house Lannister as master of hounds, rescued the lord from a lion, and was raised up in recognition, later bore sons, etc. Other than their skin tone, their characters would remain untouched. For the sake of not raising eyebrows, throw in a few other black actors here and there in minor southern/coastal roles and you wouldn't even have to explain it any. Plus, you open up your talent pool considerably.

I agree. I am okay with Addy as Robert, mostly because we never see him fight, we're never supposed to see him as some great warrior, only as some fat, loud, over-indulgent, lazy, irresponsible, sweet guy who used to be a great warrior. But if they get some 5'9 lanky, pretty-boy to be The Hound, then I might freak out. We do see The Hound fight, we do see him intimidate and tower over people. We do see him stand toe to toe with his brother (who_has_to be huge, who is_defined_by his enormity). His being black would have no bearing on what makes his physicality stand out in the books. And as Venardhi says, it opens up the talent pool considerably.

Someone, can't remember who, had the idea to cast Idris Elba for The Hound. Stringer Bell as Sandor Clegane. Think about that. He's 6'3, has broad shoulders, can bulk up for the part...and he's freaking awesome. I wouldn't mind them changing one little thing about the Clegane's past to see someone like Elba as The Hound.

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Yeah, Clarke is great, hiLARious in Armageddon too! LOL, but you can't just go arbitrarily changing the color of main characters, just because an actor is good. Jalabar Xo is black, we know that. The Clegane boys, not so much. If the Cleganes were black, I'm of the opinion Martin would have let that little detail slip out.

"Hey - let's have Tyrion be green!!! Well, it never actually said he WASN'T in the books...."

The only characters whose skin color matter are the STARKS, LANNISTERS, and TARGARYENS. No one else. If the screenwriters cannot go around this and put specific skin-colored actors into this roles, then I feel sorry for them.

The Cleganes are only known for being fierce, ruthless, merciless, masterful fighters, and their frightening looks. Sandor is a ravaged soul (no connection to white or black or brown skin), temporarily loyal to the Lannisters ( could be white or black or brown), and has strange fascination for Sansa (could also be white or black or brown). Gregor is just brutal ( white or black or brown).

I just hope they don't limit their choice of talented pool of actors based on skin color because the only dark-skinned characters are minor ones, Xho and Alayaya. Such a waste.

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Wait, wait, wait.

You're the guy bitching about how Robert looks wrong.

But now you want two black guys to play two characters coming from an area in which almost everyone is white and blond? And considering the fact that those two characters look alike (being brother), you want two actors who look NOTHING alike to play them.

The Irony Is Stabbing Me In The Throat Repeatedly.

Sandor and Gregor don't remotely look alike. One is 8 ft tall, the other 7 ft tall. One is only seen in the battlefield wearing his armor and helm, in Harrenhal and in the stories of his men. Sandor is seen with Joffrey, seen with Sansa, seen with Arya, seen with the BWB, and in the battlefield. And his face is heavily scarred.

So, I think we can get away with not having look-alikes with these two characters.

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I'm against having a multi-racial society for Westeros. The reason is, I’ve seen historical tv shows (and fantasy shows) where they have the population mirroring our own, ie: Black, brown, white people all intermingling. It took away from the realism for me. In a medieval society, you didn’t get mass movement. People stayed where they were. I find it impossible to suspend my belief seeing every other villager black, or brown-skinned. Unless they specificate during the show how a black man comes to be living in a society completely based of medieval Europe, and has other characters treating him like a foreigner, then my viewing suffers.

That said, I wouldn’t necessarily mind Sandor/Gregor/Bronn being black, but I’d want their past to be hinted at or specified during the show. Don't turn a medieval landscape into the modern world; it’s my chief annoyance with historical films/tv series.

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I think making the Cleganes black is a very bad idea. It has unfortunate implications. It'd be nice to pretend we live in a colorblind world, but we don't. Making Gregor, the monster of Westeros, into a black man would definitely carry racist subtext in most viewers' minds. And it isn't much better for Sandor. Sandor's interest in Sansa is bad enough, but a big black man showing that sort of interest in a little white girl is perceived much worse.

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I think making the Cleganes black is a very bad idea. It has unfortunate implications. It'd be nice to pretend we live in a colorblind world, but we don't. Making Gregor, the monster of Westeros, into a black man would definitely carry racist subtext in most viewers' minds. And it isn't much better for Sandor. Sandor's interest in Sansa is bad enough, but a big black man showing that sort of interest in a little white girl is perceived much worse.

But the imposing Turko-Mongol/Middle Eastern/Sioux Nation warlord marrying the 13-year old whitebread Targaryen is okay?

I think we're beyond this sort of racial typecasting, though I agree with the basis of edd's argument - if everyone else is white and the Cleganes (the baddest, meanest motherfuckers around) are black, that's a weird dichotomy. I do think there can be some color added the right way, so long as that character's placement in Westerosi society is explained (or at least hinted at) in the character's past, as Ser mentioned.

I still want Michael K. Williams for Bronn.

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I just think that Sandor's detachment from the world is so well defined by his past, his scars and his personality that it would weaken his character to make him the only major black person as well. Just too obvious for racism to become a huge part of the way he's perceived; it'd ruin the subtlety for me.

I don't think physical racial diversity needs to be a theme of every alternate-world story. It wouldn't matter if everyone in Westeros was dark-skinned, or Asian, or bright green, but I think they should keep it uniform, with the few exceptions like Summer Islanders..

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I do agree Westeros is very white. I truly believe it was meant to be a representation of Western Europe. I would say "Britain," actually, except for the fact that the Dornishmen certainly seem to have a Spaniard / Moorish image.

As much as I am an advocate of an equitable playing field, I am also a stickler for detail, much like many of you, and yes, randomly dropped non-whites "just to add a little color" would make the world it seem less realistic to me. I think the Cleganes should be Caucasian.

So it's the roles that aren't so lineage-dependent that can be tinkered with a little. I did mention Bronn. The Dornishmen could likely have any sort of darker-skinned complexion and few people would cry foul. And anyone in the Brave Companions could be ... anyone, really.

And that's just Westeros. Once we go across the sea, anything goes. Hell, give me Michael Clarke Duncan for Strong Belwas.

... I'd take Dante Nero for Strong Belwas too.

On THAT note... dude's latest tweets are hilarious - he's at the gym all the time now, working cardio, even though he didn't get the Khal Drogo role. I have to wonder if one too many people called him FAT...

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So you're okay with a black Bronn being rewarded for his valor but not the Clegane's grandfather? They have as little NEED to be white as Bronn. Like I said before, I'm not necessarily encouraging it, but goose and gander and all that.

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The woman (can't remember her name) who owns the brothel Tyrion frequents, and her daughter are Summer Islanders and therefore of chocolate complexion. So, there are characters written into the novels that are of other ethnicities in Westeros, although not many, without having to change what discriptions are in the novels just to be pc. If Sandor and his brother are discribed as caucasion, so what? Do you really want the Mountain, who is a psycopathic killer, and his brother to be the only dark complected Westerosian? Red Vipor and the Dornishmen could easily be moorish looking. Cast Djimon Hounsou as the Vipor, he'd be great! The people of the Free Cities should be of many ethnicities, etc..

I see this show being similar to Rome where races are concerned. There will be many ethnicities, but in context to the world G.R.R.M created.

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So you're okay with a black Bronn being rewarded for his valor but not the Clegane's grandfather? They have as little NEED to be white as Bronn. Like I said before, I'm not necessarily encouraging it, but goose and gander and all that.

Fine, but you'd have to explain why they were black during the show. It would have to become part of their character themes. So long as you are ok with this, so am i.

The difference between Bronn and the Cleganes is Bronn IS a mercenary, while the Cleganes are Lannister bannermen. Its easier to explain away with Bronn.

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But you (Dire Wolf) seem to be missing the point. Martin didn't write them as black.

They're not black.

The producers can't just arbitrarily change someone's color because Dire Wolf wants to open up their talent pool.

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It can still look stupid though. Like an African village where random villagers are white.

Anyway, don't really care all that much. If they hire Michael K Williams or someone completely badass like that I certainly won't complain.

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Hey - I just realized we don't have anybody in a wheelchair.

Why don't we open up the 'casting pool' to guys in wheelchairs? Maester Luwin can be in a wheelchair, why not?

Or maybe have Barristan Selmy be Chinese? I mean, there are a billion freakin' Chinese, there's one HELL of a talent pool! Bound to be some great Chinese actor out there. And Martin never actually said Selmy wasn't Chinese... mmmmm???

(Alright, that's enough of that, my point is made. I guess I'll agree to disagree at this point).

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