The ASOIAF wiki thread

[zionius]

37 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

@zionius

Since Jaehaerys and Alysanne learned about their mother's pregnancy the year before Boremund's birth (52 AC), they must have returned in 51 AC indeed. 

But there might be a problem though. Jaehaerys announced his plans of a progress late in 51 AC and it surely took some time to start the thing and to get to Maidenpool and back. I am not entirely sure about the meaning of 'late in', but I would guess it defines a point in the last three months (I do not know if there are any examples in the book) and not more than the last four ones for sure. So I think Jaehaerys announced his plans no earlier than in the tenth month, started his progress two weeks later (maybe even just one week later) and then he travelled for around a month (he wanted to see a lot of places and the two weeks he wanted to stay in Maidenpool show that he stayed some time at least in the major castles and towns). So in the end he would have returned at the end of the eleventh or the beginning of the twelfth month. I see no way he learned about his mother's pregnancy at that point (and I guess the message was sent immediately after they noticed Alyssa was pregnant) and Boremund could have been born early in 52 AC.

Maybe they didn't want to inform others during the first trimester, because of high miscarriage rate, or didn't think it worthed a raven specified to report a single uncritical matter.

And the concept of early and late could extend to August and April.

[The Wondering Wolf]

8 hours ago, zionius said:

Maybe they didn't want to inform others during the first trimester, because of high miscarriage rate, or didn't think it worthed a raven specified to report a single uncritical matter.

Does not sound very convincing to me. The king's mother being pregnant is huge news and should be passed on to the king immediately. Rogar already had had his struggles with Jaehaerys, I do not think he wanted to risk the king's wroth because he had not informed him at once about something he would have liked to know for sure. So yeah, it might be a solution, I just do not think it is a good one. And it even requires the concept of late and early to extend to the last and first four month of the year, which I am not convinced of either. So we need a bunch of unusual decisions and wording to make it happen. Might not be impossible, but I think GRRM got confused when he changed the timing of events in 50 and 51 AC.

[zionius]

5 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Does not sound very convincing to me. The king's mother being pregnant is huge news and should be passed on to the king immediately. Rogar already had had his struggles with Jaehaerys, I do not think he wanted to risk the king's wroth because he had not informed him at once about something he would have liked to know for sure. So yeah, it might be a solution, I just do not think it is a good one. And it even requires the concept of late and early to extend to the last and first four month of the year, which I am not convinced of either. So we need a bunch of unusual decisions and wording to make it happen. Might not be impossible, but I think GRRM got confused when he changed the timing of events in 50 and 51 AC.

True, maybe the draft arranged the trip at early 51 AC. But moving it to late 51 AC doesn't necessarily introduce an error. How about this: at the age of 44, Alyssa had menopause, so her pregnancy was found rather late. There were cases women found themselves pregnant only till the sixth month, or even later.

[The Wondering Wolf]

2 hours ago, zionius said:

How about this: at the age of 44, Alyssa had menopause, so her pregnancy was found rather late. There were cases women found themselves pregnant only till the sixth month, or even later.

Thinking about it, I seem to remember that is something I had already thought about as well when I tried to solve the differences regarding 50/51/52 AC between the German and English edition (apparently the German one tried to fix some errors from the original script and ended up all wrong when GRRM changed things differently). So yeah, I can live with the explanation that Alyssa herself just noticed her pregnancy that late.

[zionius]

7 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Thinking about it, I seem to remember that is something I had already thought about as well when I tried to solve the differences regarding 50/51/52 AC between the German and English edition (apparently the German one tried to fix some errors from the original script and ended up all wrong when GRRM changed things differently). So yeah, I can live with the explanation that Alyssa herself just noticed her pregnancy that late.

So the German translation is also different, like the French one? I think they both based on an early draft.

[The Wondering Wolf]

1 hour ago, zionius said:

So the German translation is also different, like the French one? I think they both based on an early draft.

Yeah, this might be the reason.

English: We know the realm did not rise up against King Jaehaerys and Queen Alysanne in 51 AC as it had against Aegon and Rhaena ten years earlier.

German: We know the realm did not rise up against King Jaehaerys and Queen Alysanne in 50 AC as it had against Aegon and Rhaena nine years earlier.

English: The year continued without further crisis or test as Jaehaerys and Alysanne settled in to rule.

German: The year of the half century, as the year 50 AC would be called, continued without further crisis or test as Jaehaerys and Alysanne settled in to rule.

English: All this pleased King Jaehaerys, but none of it pleased him half so much as the gift that Queen Alysanne gave him several moons later, when she told him she was with child.

German: All this pleased King Jaehaerys, but none of it pleased him half so much as the gift that Queen Alysanne gave him as the year turned to an end, when she told him she was with child.

English: "I mean for them to see me," Jaehaerys declared, when announcing his first royal progress late in 51 AC.

German: "I mean for them to see me," Jaehaerys declared, when announcing his first royal progress in 51 AC.

English: But the child, when he came early the following year, would prove to be robust and healthy, a big red-faced boy born with a fuzz of jet black hair and "a squall that could be heard from Dorne to the Wall."

German: But the child, when he came later that year, would prove to be robust and healthy, a big red-faced boy born with a fuzz of jet black hair and "a squall that could be heard from Dorne to the Wall."

Edited September 4, 2019 by The Wondering Wolf

[zionius]

18 minutes ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Yeah, this might be the reason.

English: We know the realm did not rise up against King Jaehaerys and Queen Alysanne in 51 AC as it had against Aegon and Rhaena ten years earlier.

German: We know the realm did not rise up against King Jaehaerys and Queen Alysanne in 50 AC as it had against Aegon and Rhaena nine years earlier.

English: The year continued without further crisis or test as Jaehaerys and Alysanne settled in to rule.

German: The year of the half century, as the year 50 AC would be called, continued without further crisis or test as Jaehaerys and Alysanne settled in to rule.

Wow, the German version is exactly the same as the French one. So it must be from the draft. How does that chapter end in German? Is it something like "All this pleased King Jaehaerys, but none of it pleased him half so much as the gift that Queen Alysanne gave him several moons later, when she told him she was with child. Thus 50 AC ended in celebrations, as it had begun." 

Another draft error is the Grand Maester Clegg came to KL at 33 AC issue, which is present in both Russian and French translation. (And probably in German as well)

 

Do you happen to know other interesting deviations in the German version that could be from the draft? Or is there a German F&B errata discussing thread, so I can find them by myself.

Edited September 4, 2019 by zionius

[The Wondering Wolf]

5 minutes ago, zionius said:

How does that chapter end in German?

I had to save my entry before finishing it, but I added some more stuff. 

The Clegg issue is part of the German translation. Maegor is still eleven at the time Visenya proposes a betrothal with Rhaena (and not twelve as would be correct). Then it says Alyssa Velaryon's father was among the oldest supporter of Aegon I instead of her grandfather. Alyn Bullock is called Adam two times. And there is some weird stuff going on with the timing of the events around Saera.

I do not think there is a thread for that kind of stuff, feel free to start one if you like.

[zionius]

I wonder if Alysanne stayed alone in Dragonstone for half a year in the German version, namely, "At long last, he sent for his queen. Alysanne Targaryen and her dragon, Silverwing, departed Dragonstone within an hour of his summons, after having been apart from the king for nigh on half a year."

7 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Maegor is still eleven at the time Visenya proposes a betrothal with Rhaena (and not twelve as would be correct).

I think 11 is correct. (The novella says 12, English version F&B says 11.) Maegor was born in 12 AC, making him turning 11 in 23 AC at the proposal.

[The Wondering Wolf]

6 hours ago, zionius said:

I wonder if Alysanne stayed alone in Dragonstone for half a year in the German version, namely, "At long last, he sent for his queen. Alysanne Targaryen and her dragon, Silverwing, departed Dragonstone within an hour of his summons, after having been apart from the king for nigh on half a year."

Can not look it up now, will do it later.

6 hours ago, zionius said:

I think 11 is correct. (The novella says 12, English version F&B says 11.) Maegor was born in 12 AC, making him turning 11 in 23 AC at the proposal.

Sure, and actually it is just the other way around (the German version has him 12, the English one 11).

[The Wondering Wolf]

On 9/4/2019 at 7:00 PM, zionius said:

How does that chapter end in German? Is it something like "All this pleased King Jaehaerys, but none of it pleased him half so much as the gift that Queen Alysanne gave him several moons later, when she told him she was with child. Thus 50 AC ended in celebrations, as it had begun." 

The last sentence is not part of the chapter. It just reads: All this pleased King Jaehaerys, but none of it pleased him half so much as the gift that Queen Alysanne gave him as the year turned to an end, when she told him she was with child.

Jaehaerys and Alysanne were devided for almost half a year in the German edition, as well.

[RyamRedwyne]

I just noticed that Princess Alyssa Targaryen is missing as a rider of Meleys in the list of known dragons here. She's already added to Category:Dragonriders, and both her own page and Meleys' mention it. Maybe someone with a wiki account could add a row for her?

Edited September 10, 2019 by RyamRedwyne

[RyamRedwyne]

Thanks, @Rhaenys_Targaryen.

I also noticed that Pycelle is not listed as the Grand Maester to Jaehaerys II on the Small Council.

Edited September 16, 2019 by RyamRedwyne

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

1 hour ago, RyamRedwyne said:

Thanks, @Rhaenys_Targaryen.

I also noticed that Pycelle is not listed as the Grand Maester to Jaehaerys II on the Small Council.

Added!

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

(Bolded emphasize in this post mine)

Baelor Blacktyde spend eight years as a hostage in Oldtown:

Baelor Blacktyde was more difficult to please. He sat by Victarion’s elbow in his lambswool tunic of black-and-green vairy, smooth-faced and comely. His cloak was sable, and pinned with a silver seven-pointed star. He had been eight years a hostage in Oldtown, and had returned a worshiper of the seven green land gods. (AFFC, The Iron Captain)

The House Blacktyde pages lists The Kraken's Daughter as the source for this statement, but I cannot find such in that chapter.

The quote does not state when Baelor was made a hostage, or why. The wiki states, citing this chapter, that Baelor was made a hostage following the death of his father during Greyjoy's Rebellion.

Although it would make sense that Baelor was made a hostage following Greyjoy's Rebellion, as far as I can see at the moment, that was never stated in text. In fact, The Kraken's Daughter implies that this is not possible, as Tristifer Botley was send away from Pyke after Greyjoy's Rebellion to be the ward of Baelor Blacktyde.

Furthermore, his wiki page also states that he became the Lord of Blacktyde following his father's death (289 AC). The page for Lord Blacktyde cites The Iron Captain for this statement as well, but searching "Blacktyde" and "Baelor" does not turn up any result.

All I can find is this quote, which is, in my opinion, quite ambiguous.

“Go home and know your wife,” Asha shot back. “Nuncle says he’ll give you more of what my father gave you. Well, what was that? Gold and glory, some will say. Freedom, ever sweet. Aye, it’s so, he gave us that... and widows too, as Lord Blacktyde will tell you. How many of you had your homes put to the torch when Robert came? How many had daughters raped and despoiled? Burnt towns and broken castles, my father gave you that. Defeat was what he gave you. Nuncle here will give you more. Not me.” (AFFC, The Drowned Man)

 

Does anyone know whether there are quotes for these statements? If there are none, the wiki text should be changed.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

@Rhaenys_Targaryen I think you are looking for this.

Quote

"What is dead can never die, but rises harder and stronger. In a hundred years men will sing of Balon the Bold."

"Balon the Widowmaker, call him. I will gladly trade his freedom for a father. Have you one to give me?" When Victarion did not answer, Blacktyde snorted and moved off.

AFFC, The Iron Captain

 

[RyamRedwyne]

Portal:Books makes no mention of Fire and Blood.

On a related note, maybe Chapters should list the chapters from Fire and Blood? And if so, maybe there should be individual pages (with summaries) for each chapter like for the main novels? I don't know, what do you think?

[The Wondering Wolf]

7 hours ago, RyamRedwyne said:

On a related note, maybe Chapters should list the chapters from Fire and Blood? And if so, maybe there should be individual pages (with summaries) for each chapter like for the main novels? I don't know, what do you think?

The chapters themselves summarise a lot, so I am not sure what a summary on the wiki would look like.

[Xanvier Xanbie]

Hi, I'm an admin for the Russian 7kingdoms.ru wiki. We've been cleaning out some images with questionable license status, and some of them were taken from AWOIAF.

Runestone_by_krassenka.jpg is a 3D digital art called Citadel by John Bliss. It has nothing to do with Runestone or A Song of Ice and Fire. Apparently, somebody named Krassy put a gallery of fantasy castles on their blog back in 2012, with cropped out watermarks and made-up captions, and that's it. You should probably check any other images uploaded by the user Igra prestola.

By the way, Lanna_by_Liquoricey.png is a slightly photoshopped stock image.

[Nittanian]

On 9/24/2019 at 8:43 AM, Xanvier Xanbie said:

Hi, I'm an admin for the Russian 7kingdoms.ru wiki. We've been cleaning out some images with questionable license status, and some of them were taken from AWOIAF.

Runestone_by_krassenka.jpg is a 3D digital art called Citadel by John Bliss. It has nothing to do with Runestone or A Song of Ice and Fire. Apparently, somebody named Krassy put a gallery of fantasy castles on their blog back in 2012, with cropped out watermarks and made-up captions, and that's it. You should probably check any other images uploaded by the user Igra prestola.

By the way, Lanna_by_Liquoricey.png is a slightly photoshopped stock image.

Heh, that would explain images for  Deepwood Motte (where is the wolfswood?) and the Three Sisters (doesn't look very insular), both uploaded by Igra without artist names.

Separately, we have an image of the Drowned Crewman FFG card. The title and art make me think it is a sailor being killed by an enemy ironman, but the file's description states it is one of the drowned men (an acolyte).