The ASOIAF wiki thread

[The Wondering Wolf]

3 minutes ago, direpupy said:

The casualties include the people executed in the aftermath, this would be everyone from the fall of Kingslanding to Rhaenyra having to flee. I'm not sure they should be included but i also do not see anywhere to mention them apart from this articel.

Maybe it would help to add an "(executed)" behind their names so it's clear for readers that they didn't die during the battle itself. You are right that they aren't actual casualties from the battle, on the other hand their death is a direct result of the battle, so I think it's ok to leave them there as long as there is some sort of clarification.

[direpupy]

1 hour ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

Maybe it would help to add an "(executed)" behind their names so it's clear for readers that they didn't die during the battle itself. You are right that they aren't actual casualties from the battle, on the other hand their death is a direct result of the battle, so I think it's ok to leave them there as long as there is some sort of clarification.

sounds good

[direpupy]

Why is Jaime Lannister in the category Crossdressers? As far as i know he never did that.

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

3 hours ago, direpupy said:

Why is Jaime Lannister in the category Crossdressers? As far as i know he never did that.

It might be a mistake. I remember Cersei wearing Jaime's clothes when they were young but I don't know if Jaime ever wore Cersei's.

[direpupy]

17 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

It might be a mistake. I remember Cersei wearing Jaime's clothes when they were young but I don't know if Jaime ever wore Cersei's.

I was thinking of that to but its only Cersie wearing jaime's clothing, not them swapping clothes so i think its a mistake.

[direpupy]

Okay so @Mindset found  a reference in ACOK where originally in the Cersie artikel on the wiki it only referenced they WOIAF app and Jaime's page had no reference at all, the ACOK reference does mention Jaime wearing Cersie's clothes. Thanks Mindset for finding that and updating the pages.

That said, i do still have an issue with the crossdresser category itself, it is part of the larger LGBT+ category on the wiki being a subcategory of it. However Cersie and Jaime did not change clothes out of an LGBT+ driven reason but more as a game that they played, Cersie calls it a Lark which is a activity done out of amusement. So while technically correct that they engaged in crossdressing and thus that they are in the crossdressing category, because on they wiki this category is linked to LGBT+ Jaime is now linked to this, even do he is not LGBT+. For Cersie i think its different because she has engaged in sexual activity with an other women, so the LGBT+ category does fit there.

I'm not sure how to deal with this, or if its even a big enough matter to warrant a change or that we should just leave it as a trivial matter and would like to hear from others what they think about it.

Edited May 14, 2023 by direpupy

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

@direpupy

This might be a bit controversial but maybe divorce the crossdresser category from the LBGTQ category? Especially in a premodern context, people might crossdress for reasons unrelated to sex/gender.

[direpupy]

Since no one else responded i have just come up with solution myself and have added a extra peace of text to the crossdresser category page that states that despite being part of the larger LGBT+ category  not all people in the crosdresser category are LGBT+

[Mindset]

Hey, so, question regarding art from the D&E comics,  F&B, TKo7K, etc. They're official artworks, approved by GRRM (more or less*), but really the wiki doesn't have the rights to upload it without the permission of the publisher, right? I know some of the individual artists who did work for the calendars, for TWOIAF, and for TROTD have given permission, sure. But I'm fairly certain that whoever owns the rights to the D&E comics these days (Marvel? Amazon? Bantam for TMK?) has never said anything, nor has Bantam/Doug Wheatley for F&B.  We do have some of these works on the wiki (I've uploaded a few myself ), but I'm really not sure of the legality of it -- especially since the image templates now emphasize the "Images under copyright used without permission" category.

Anyway. My question. Given the choice between one of these works of questionable legal status, vs a work where the artist has definitely given permission for it to be used on the wiki, should we not go with the latter? Thanks!

 

_{*(I once spoke with Mike S. Miller regarding his Tanselle, if she was drawn with GRRM approval re her widow's peak, and he said he just drew her per the book/comics script. THK does not say Tanselle has a widow's peak. Similarly, Gary Gianni's Tanselle has curly hair, which the book doesn't say either. I don't think GRRM is giving approval on every detail all of the time.)}

[direpupy]

11 hours ago, Mindset said:

Hey, so, question regarding art from the D&E comics,  F&B, TKo7K, etc. They're official artworks, approved by GRRM (more or less*), but really the wiki doesn't have the rights to upload it without the permission of the publisher, right? I know some of the individual artists who did work for the calendars, for TWOIAF, and for TROTD have given permission, sure. But I'm fairly certain that whoever owns the rights to the D&E comics these days (Marvel? Amazon? Bantam for TMK?) has never said anything, nor has Bantam/Doug Wheatley for F&B.  We do have some of these works on the wiki (I've uploaded a few myself ), but I'm really not sure of the legality of it -- especially since the image templates now emphasize the "Images under copyright used without permission" category.

Anyway. My question. Given the choice between one of these works of questionable legal status, vs a work where the artist has definitely given permission for it to be used on the wiki, should we not go with the latter? Thanks!

 

_{*(I once spoke with Mike S. Miller regarding his Tanselle, if she was drawn with GRRM approval re her widow's peak, and he said he just drew her per the book/comics script. THK does not say Tanselle has a widow's peak. Similarly, Gary Gianni's Tanselle has curly hair, which the book doesn't say either. I don't think GRRM is giving approval on every detail all of the time.)}

One of the things that comes into question here is "fair use" is it forbidden to have the whole comic on the wiki yes, is it forbidden to have cropped version of a page as a piece of art, as part of a educational wiki articel wel thats where "fair use"  comes in, however there are exeptions to this, for instance if the artist or the rightsholder has expresly forbidden all use instead of just general reproduction. In they end its so difficult to asertain if something does or does not fall under fair use that it is always beter to have permission.

I thought we had a standing permission for the first comic but if we do not then it would be beter to not use it.

Edited May 24, 2023 by direpupy

[The Wondering Wolf]

The page for the war for the Stepstones says that the outcome was a victory for the Triarchy. I am not sure this is accurate, though. Since there were still kings on the islands when the Daughters' War began, it seems to me that the Triarchy did not regain the Stepstones after Daemon had left, so while the Westerosi might not have won in the end, the Triarchy did neither.

[Oneiros Drakontos]

I have a doubt about the exact year of the Battle of the Bells. In the wiki page the date is 283, but if I recall correctly there's some unofficial timelines that indicate (late) 282 as the actual year. In general, it seems to me that the dates of the events of Robert's Rebellion are not always clear. Is 283 correct?

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

1 hour ago, Oneiros Drakontos said:

I have a doubt about the exact year of the Battle of the Bells. In the wiki page the date is 283, but if I recall correctly there's some unofficial timelines that indicate (late) 282 as the actual year. In general, it seems to me that the dates of the events of Robert's Rebellion are not always clear. Is 283 correct?

Do you recall where we can find this unofficial timeline ? That would be helpful to answer your question. In the meantime, the wiki has a page dedicated to the calculation of events. This page could do with an update but that's a good start.

[Oneiros Drakontos]

I've found a couple of fan-made timelines that set the Battle of the Bells in late 282:

10th month of 282

Last month of 282

Edited May 30, 2023 by Oneiros Drakontos

[direpupy]

@Ran The front page of the wiki says that there are eleven sister wiki's but there are only ten listed, i can not change this myself because the page is locked against change.

[Nittanian]

Anyone have issues logging in? I'm receiving this error message:

Quote

There seems to be a problem with your login session; this action has been canceled as a precaution against session hijacking. Please resubmit the form.

 

[Ran]

1 hour ago, Nittanian said:

Anyone have issues logging in? I'm receiving this error message:

 

Seems like a cookie issue. If you look at cookies in (for Chrome) Settings -> Privacy and Security -> Cookies and other data -> See all site data and permissions, expand the westeros.org section, clear the wiki of ice and fire cookies, restart browser, then log in, it should work.

  

5 hours ago, direpupy said:

@Ran The front page of the wiki says that there are eleven sister wiki's but there are only ten listed, i can not change this myself because the page is locked against change.

 

Fixed.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Ran

[Nittanian]

Back in now, thanks!

[The Wondering Wolf]

The list of historical members of House Greyjoy lists four uncles of Dalton, stating two died during Johanna Lannister's invasion on the islands. I can't find a source for these two uncles, though. 

[Thomaerys Velaryon]

3 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

The list of historical members of House Greyjoy lists four uncles of Dalton, stating two died during Johanna Lannister's invasion on the islands. I can't find a source for these two uncles, though. 

I'm pretty sure this one is my mistake, I counted Dalton's two brother-in-laws who died during the invasion of the Iron Islands as his uncles. You are right we only have two uncles in the text for Dalton:

Uncle n°1, died fighting in the Stepstones in 128 AC

Quote

In his fifteenth year, whilst fighting in the Stepstones as a sellsail, he saw his uncle slain and avenged his death, but he took a dozen wounds and emerged from the fight drenched head to heel in blood. From that day forth, men called him the Red Kraken.

-TWOIAF,  The Iron Islands: The Red Kraken

 

Uncle n°2 (the favorite uncle), died during the retaking of Kayce in 132 AC

Quote

Her courage did help inspire her westermen, however, for the raiders were soon routed and Kayce was saved. Amongst the dead was the Red Kraken’s favorite uncle.

-F&B, Under the Regents - The Hooded Hand

 

Note: Dalton sailed to the Basilisk Isles with a uncle in his youth. We don't know if this is Uncle n°1 or n°2 or even another one.

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A fearless child, headstrong and hot-tempered, he is said to have been rowing at five and reaving at ten, sailing with his uncle to the Basilisk Isles to raid the pirate towns for plunder.

-TWOIAF,  The Iron Islands: The Red Kraken

Since the list of Dalton's heirs after his death doesn't mention any surviving uncles, I think we can confidently stick with Dalton only having two uncles.

Quote

Dalton Greyjoy had never taken a rock wife, so his only heirs were two young sons born of the salt wives he had left
on Pyke, three sisters, and several cousins, each more grasping and ambitious than the last.

-F&B, Under the Regents - The Voyage of Alyn Oakenfist