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Thanks RT, I was wondering if there had been a specific reference somewhere like a So Spake GRRM but I never paid attention to that because I didn't think it would be taken down. I guess it was just originally assumed and then unassumed. 

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A wiki policy question for @Ran :

On the Fandom/Wikia network, such as the TV show wiki, Star Wars' Wookieepedia, etc., the higher-up staff within the organization explained to us that they have a strict "no nudity" policy, which we've tried to enforce.  We cannot post screencapped images containing:

  • Genitals
  • Buttocks
  • Exposed female breasts

Does the same rule apply to Westeros.org's Wiki of Ice and Fire regarding images containing nudity?  

I think there are two broad categories:  officially commissioned artwork, and the more nebulous "good fanart that got picked for inclusion in the wiki".  

I.e. there's an officially commissioned artwork for "Barter Beach" (in the Basilisk Isles) created by John McCambridge for A World of Ice and Fire, posted on Deviantart....not included in the print version.  Possibly due to censorship because it has topless women in it:  

Similarly, artwork depicting the warrior-women of the Hyrkoon city-states - who, as Addam of Duskendale frequently reminds us, go about in everyday life with their breasts bare, with iron rings pierced in their nipples and rubies studded in their cheeks.

Obviously this type of thing is a broad policy rule and I have no intention of disputing it - on the TV show wiki I just accepted it as a given - but I'm not actually sure what the stated policy IS on A Wiki of Ice and Fire.   

 

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I found possible errata.

In AGOT Catelyn IX it is mentioned that Walder is surrounded by twenty living sons (minus Ser Perwyn, who would have made twenty-one), thirty-six grandsons, nineteen great-grandsons,

But there are several problems 

Walder had only 29 grandsons and 17 great-grandsons from trueborn Freys during events of that chapter, and some like Bloodborn or Cleos shouldn't be there.

Second, without Geremy, he has 21 son. But, Emmon shouldn't be there, same with Luceon and Willamen.

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Quick question:  I was talking about World of Ice and Fire and Fire and Blood with someone, regarding the relative size of material cut from the final release (i.e. "All of Sons of the Dragon was released; but nearly all of the Regency was cut, which was "nearly as long" as the Dance material, and has not been released).

I also remembered that at some point Elio mentioned in passing material which was cut from the World book from "beyond Westeros" - stuff that couldn't plausibly be included in a Targaryen history like Fire and Blood (....*maybe* some anecdotes about the Starks which got cut could be included as a footnote in a Targaryen history, as it is a history "of Westeros").  

But I remember @Ran remarking that there was "more" material on the Dothraki and Yi Ti which got cut.  

1 - Regarding material about regions "beyond Westeros" which wouldn't plausibly fit into a Targaryen history book like Fire and Blood, specifically which regions have more unreleased material?  Just "the Dothraki" and "Yi Ti", or some other stuff too on Hyrkoon, Qarth, etc?

2 - ....I don't know if you'd be willing to release a specific word count, but off the top of your head, about how much material on the Dothraki and Yi Ti was left unreleased?  Just in terms of "the Regency material is nearly as long as the Dance material" - was it just a few notes here and there on Yi Ti?  Or is it a case of "actually the amount GRRM wrote is fully twice as long as what we were able to fit in that chapter of the print book"?

I'm not sure how those would get released - the app or a future edition.

I ask here because I wanted to update the wiki article on the World book just as we made a list of contents for the Fire and Blood article.  

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I think a lot of the cutting down was something that was done toward the end when we saw the size of it, and I think a lot of the decisions there were more from Anne than us. Doing a quick check, it may not be Yi Ti that had some cuts to it. I will say that I don't think any of the areas in the east had cuts remotely as substantial as the Regency material, for example.

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Ack - well even a single paragraph can be pretty big info.  The mental comparison I keep using is the Greystarks mentioned on literally one page in ADWD....describing a centuries-long major conflict in sweeping terms.  Compared to 10 pages of intense characterization description about Maegor and Aenys.  

Speaking of Anne....I'm submitting convention panels again for NYCC - I've only gotten into local panels before, and NYCC hasn't had a GoT/ASOIAF panel in four years now.   Given that Fire and Blood Volume 1 will be coming out around Christmas 2018, one of the panels I'm submitting is on "This is what Fire and Blood Volume 1 is, it's an outline of the Game of Thrones prequel successor show storylines, and if you only know the main TV show this is what the other prequel eras are like".   The topic feels timely enough.  

Given that Anne lives in NYC, can you contact her and ask if she'd like to "appear" at this, to promote the books?  She can do as much or as little work as she wants (anything from "if Anne is turned off by the idea of asking her to do a lot of stuff, she can just sit there and field a few questions but I'm doing all the heavy work" to "Anne would feel slighted if she wasn't outright co-hosting").  I'd also love to pick her brain on questions like how much of one thing or another got cut.

I might not get a panel at all due to heavy competition - but if I can put on the application "GRRM's editor will be there" it might help get our foot in the door.  

Last time I ran panels in the NYC area I didn't advertise it to keep shownlies from attacking it, but even GRRM (via livejournal comments) pointed out this was pretty silly and it would be smarter to try to organize a bigger fan gathering months in advance.

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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And in regards to my question about what wiki policy is for posting official and/or unofficial artwork containing nudity? (the only official artwork of certain characters/places contains nudity).  

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There's a Daenerys image in a Qartheen gown in the Wiki. I think our preference is that such images not be used as the primary image, but as a secondary image in the course of an article, that is generally okay.

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22 hours ago, Ran said:

There's a Daenerys image in a Qartheen gown in the Wiki. I think our preference is that such images not be used as the primary image, but as a secondary image in the course of an article, that is generally okay.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Hyrkoon_women_in_Vaes_Dothrak_-_GoT_Histories_%26_Lore_S6.png

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Hyrkoon_women_in_Vaes_Dothrak_(wide_shot)_-_GoT_Histories_%26_Lore_S6.png

I realize this may have been an odd question - I just stumbled on these in my folder of "screenshots of anything useful for articles from the histories and lore animated videos" and remembered that I had to take it *down* from the TV wiki due to topless women in it.  

Broader question:  there should be one main article for the culture of the three Hyrkoon successor cities in the Bone Mountains:

Should this be under "Patrimony of Hyrkoon" (which is extinct), "Bone Mountains" (treating it as a region, like "Free Cities", not just a topographical feature), etc.?

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.....I'd personal choose to treat "Hyrkoon" as a culture page, like the "Dothraki" page....and "Patrimony of Hyrkoon" (full name) referring to the specific political entity (comparable to "Dothraki Sea").  

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On 19-4-2018 at 6:43 PM, The Dragon Demands said:


Broader question:  there should be one main article for the culture of the three Hyrkoon successor cities in the Bone Mountains:

Should this be under "Patrimony of Hyrkoon" (which is extinct), "Bone Mountains" (treating it as a region, like "Free Cities", not just a topographical feature), etc.?

I think it depends a bit on how much is known. I don't think it is a lot, so in that case, something discussing the culture of the Patrimony of Hyrkoon should probably be on the page "Patrimony of Hyrkoon". But only the parts that apply to the extinct patrimony. Everything that is current should be on the pages of the city it applies to.

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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What's the position of Matthos Seaworth on Black Betha ?

He was named as "his father's second" in ASOS Davos I and "second of Black Betha" in ACOK Appendix. Is that short for the second mate or the second in charge (viz. first mate)?

It seems we only have captain/quartermaster/mate for the ranks on a ship, so I incline to the latter explanation. 

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On 18.4.2018. at 3:43 PM, Kandrax said:

I found possible errata.

In AGOT Catelyn IX it is mentioned that Walder is surrounded by twenty living sons (minus Ser Perwyn, who would have made twenty-one), thirty-six grandsons, nineteen great-grandsons,

But there are several problems 

Walder had only 29 grandsons and 17 great-grandsons from trueborn Freys during events of that chapter, and some like Bloodborn or Cleos shouldn't be there.

Second, without Geremy, he has 21 son. But, Emmon shouldn't be there, same with Luceon and Willamen.

 

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Release date for Fire and Blood Volume 1 is set at November 20.

When will the moratorium on wiki updates end?

 

...how can it be 600 pages long?  The manuscript was only 160,000 words for part one, and World was 180,000 words but only around half that page count.

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7 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

Release date for Fire and Blood Volume 1 is set at November 20.

When will the moratorium on wiki updates end?

That will be for @Ran to decide, of course, but I would guess the period will last at least a month, based on the previous couple of releases.

 

Quote

...how can it be 600 pages long?  The manuscript was only 160,000 words for part one, and World was 180,000 words but only around half that page count.

Where is this page and word count coming from? I only saw manuscript pages mentioned on grrm's blog. 

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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December 20th sounds right for the embargo on new information. I think the one exception can be information from TWoIaF and the other publications (TSoD, TP&tQ, TRP) that may find itself revised or corrected in F&B (*ahem*), since it's not really new.

Edited by Ran

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Quote

December 20th sounds right for the embargo on new information. I think the one exception can be information from TWoIaF and the other publications (TSoD, TP&tQ, TRP) that may find itself revised or corrected in F&B (*ahem*), since it's not really new.

Then let the word go forth throughout the land.

 

......So spelling fixes and such.  Yes.

Page count comes from Amazon.com.  (also someone has a formula - yeah, 1,000 manuscript pages equals around 600 hardcover pages)

How is it so much longer?

I'm about to make a big video report on this; are there NEW chapters, or did he round out existing chapters?  -- Is "The Sons of the Dragon" roughly the same size as the print version, or drastically increased?

You mention in your own speculative video about Fire and Blood that (apart from confirmed Jaehaerys I chapter) you hope there will be a "Targaryens on Dragonstone and more info on the concurrent Century of Blood" and a "pre-Doom Valyria" chapter.  The book description says "starting with Aegon I".

Does the book in fact start with "Aegon I" and the Conquest, or is the description inaccurate for purposes of a book cover?  

Yes or no question:  does it finally reveal what color Vhagar was?  Or did George forget again?

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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What will the wiki's official acronym be for "Fire and Blood, Volume 1"?

"FABV1"?  "FAB1"?  "FB1"? etc.?

Or, will it treat all of "Fire and Blood" as one really long book split into two halves?

I mean we'd be writing "FABV1: Jaehaerys I"....or, just "FAB: Jaehaerys I"....I don't know how much sense it makes to refer to Volume 1 and Volume 1 when we'd be referring to distinct chapters within each anyway. 

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18 hours ago, The Dragon Demands said:

What will the wiki's official acronym be for "Fire and Blood, Volume 1"?

"FABV1"?  "FAB1"?  "FB1"? etc.?

Or, will it treat all of "Fire and Blood" as one really long book split into two halves?

I mean we'd be writing "FABV1: Jaehaerys I"....or, just "FAB: Jaehaerys I"....I don't know how much sense it makes to refer to Volume 1 and Volume 1 when we'd be referring to distinct chapters within each anyway. 

I would vote for FaB for the template, written as "Fire & Blood" in full, as that is the name by which the author himself announced the book on his website, and the name which can be seen on the cover image.

If the official title does not include "Volume 1" or "Part 1" or something similar, the wiki should not put something like that in the title. Especially not without knowing what the second volume will be titled.

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