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3 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

I would vote for FaB for the template, written as "Fire & Blood" in full, as that is the name by which the author himself announced the book on his website, and the name which can be seen on the cover image.

If the official title does not include "Volume 1" or "Part 1" or something similar, the wiki should not put something like that in the title. Especially not without knowing what the second volume will be titled.

I agree.  We'd specifically cite "FaB: Jaehaerys I" etc anyway.

Edited by The Dragon Demands

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The template on ASOIAF works has been changed to present Fire & Blood (2018) Volume One, Volume Two. However, as this first part has been referred to only "Fire & Blood", both in GRRM's blog posts and on the cover image, and the second part is, as of yet, untitled, should "Volume One" not simply be referred to as "Fire and Blood"? (Similarly, the section "Contents of Volume One" be titled "Contents"?, as the second part is not yet titled.)

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On 30-4-2018 at 10:13 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The template on ASOIAF works has been changed to present Fire & Blood (2018) Volume One, Volume Two. However, as this first part has been referred to only "Fire & Blood", both in GRRM's blog posts and on the cover image, and the second part is, as of yet, untitled, should "Volume One" not simply be referred to as "Fire and Blood"? (Similarly, the section "Contents of Volume One" be titled "Contents"?, as the second part is not yet titled.)

No opinions? I think that, as the book to be released in November has not been adressed as having "Volume One" in its title, the wiki should not differentiate between part 1 and part 2 as far as titles are concerned. While it would definitely be mentioned that the plan is to divide F&B in two parts, the fact remains that part 2 is, as of yet, untitled.

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4 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

No opinions? I think that, as the book to be released in November has not been adressed as having "Volume One" in its title, the wiki should not differentiate between part 1 and part 2 as far as titles are concerned. While it would definitely be mentioned that the plan is to divide F&B in two parts, the fact remains that part 2 is, as of yet, untitled.

Sounds good to me. 

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I've wondered this before, but why does the wiki not use standard quote format, with the citation included within the template, so that it renders indented with an em-dash? (See the example here.) It allows for clearer and prettier formatting, takes up less space, has a better association between quote and citation (both visually and in the code), and looks nicer in mobile format as well. (See sample pictures.) If the float-right in the existing template is the issue, that could certainly be changed, to an indent or the like.

I know there'd be a lot of quotes to change, but honestly I think it would be worth it.

(The quote template in general could be done better with more modern and accessible html, <blockquote> and <cite> tags and CSS rather than tables, but one step at a time, I imagine.)

Edited by Mindset
typos

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I think part of it is artifacts from older versions of Mediawiki. I think we're definitely open to people finding ways to improve templates.

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3 hours ago, Ran said:

I think part of it is artifacts from older versions of Mediawiki. I think we're definitely open to people finding ways to improve templates.

Thanks! I'll try working on an update for the quote template, do some sandboxing this weekend. :) I also have an idea for how to fix the third marriage problems in some family trees, though that one will need to be very carefully handled...

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6 hours ago, Mindset said:

Thanks! I'll try working on an update for the quote template, do some sandboxing this weekend. :) I also have an idea for how to fix the third marriage problems in some family trees, though that one will need to be very carefully handled...

Sounds good! :)Especially interesses in your idea for the third marriages issue on the family trees!

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By the way, we are slowly exploring getting the wiki upgraded to the latest release (we're a fair bit behind). Not sure when we're doing this, as there's some technical issues we need to work out.

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Got some test templates going, here at Template:Quotetest and Template:Familytreetest. You can see them in action here. They look good in all browsers from what I can see -- the 3rd marriage family tree lines are a little bit off in mobile, but family trees in general are glitchy in mobile, so it's not so bad. Any comments, questions, objections?

For the quote template to work best (especially in mobile), some CSS needs to be added to common.css if possible, @Ran?

blockquote.templatequote { display:table; margin:1em 0; padding:0; position:relative; }
blockquote.templatequote:before, blockquote.templatequote:after { position:absolute; top:0; height:1em; color:#DDDDDD; font:normal bold 3.5em 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; line-height:0.75em; }
blockquote.templatequote:before { left:0; content:open-quote; }
blockquote.templatequote:after { right:0; content:close-quote; }
blockquote.templatequote p { display:block; margin:0 3em 0 2.5em; text-align:justify; font-style:italic; }
blockquote.templatequote p i { font-style:normal; }
div.templatequotecite { text-align:left; margin:0.5em 2.5em; }
div.templatequotecite cite { font-style:normal; }

@Rhaenys_Targaryen: What do you in particular think of the 3rd marriage lines? Look good to you, or not quite what you were hoping for? I can also add dashed line variants... running short of letters to use as codes, but if I re-purpose the "misc" ones that nobody uses, I should be good. :) 

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On 5/12/2018 at 3:16 AM, Ran said:

By the way, we are slowly exploring getting the wiki upgraded to the latest release (we're a fair bit behind). Not sure when we're doing this, as there's some technical issues we need to work out.

That would be excellent. A question though: would it be possible to add the very neat Reference Tooltips gadget? It causes the reference info to appear in a little box when you hover over a reference footnote. I've found it very helpful on wikipedia and think it would be great on this wiki.

The info on the Gadgets extension says it comes with v1.18 and above, and the wiki's at 1.24, so I don't think you need to upgrade the software for this. (Unless that extension wasn't installed when you last upgraded, but it doesn't seem too hard to add.) Anyway, hopefully it's feasible whenever you have a chance -- if you do have Gadgets set up, you'd just need to follow the instructions here.

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4 hours ago, Mindset said:

Got some test templates going, here at Template:Quotetest and Template:Familytreetest. You can see them in action here. They look good in all browsers from what I can see -- the 3rd marriage family tree lines are a little bit off in mobile, but family trees in general are glitchy in mobile, so it's not so bad. Any comments, questions, objections?

For the quote template to work best (especially in mobile), some CSS needs to be added to common.css if possible, @Ran?:) 

Done. Let me know if any more needs to be done.

 

4 hours ago, Mindset said:

That would be excellent. A question though: would it be possible to add the very neat Reference Tooltips gadget? It causes the reference info to appear in a little box when you hover over a reference footnote. I've found it very helpful on wikipedia and think it would be great on this wiki.

The info on the Gadgets extension says it comes with v1.18 and above, and the wiki's at 1.24, so I don't think you need to upgrade the software for this. (Unless that extension wasn't installed when you last upgraded, but it doesn't seem too hard to add.) Anyway, hopefully it's feasible whenever you have a chance -- if you do have Gadgets set up, you'd just need to follow the instructions here.

The 1.19 thing is out of date. Looks like the versions from v1.25 and up require 1.25+ That said, v1.24 looks like it worked, and the reference tooltips. :)

If there are any useful gadgets we should have, let me know!

Edited by Ran

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5 hours ago, Ran said:

Done. Let me know if any more needs to be done.

Looks great, thanks so much!

The family tree template may also need a CSS update, and also for the template change itself (as it's locked to admins I think), but I'd like to get some feedback on it before that.

5 hours ago, Ran said:

The 1.19 thing is out of date. Looks like the versions from v1.25 and up require 1.25+ That said, v1.24 looks like it worked, and the reference tooltips. :)

If there are any useful gadgets we should have, let me know!

And that looks awesome. So cool, even better than I imagined, thank you!

That's the one major useful gadget I know of, but maybe people with experience with other wikis might know of others?

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@Mindset

Quotes look great. As to the family tree, yeah, there's a grid on mobile. That probably does need a CSS change. Let me know what to do and where to do them and we'll get it sorted.

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15 hours ago, Mindset said:

Got some test templates going, here at Template:Quotetest and Template:Familytreetest. You can see them in action here. They look good in all browsers from what I can see -- the 3rd marriage family tree lines are a little bit off in mobile, but family trees in general are glitchy in mobile, so it's not so bad. Any comments, questions, objections?

For the quote template to work best (especially in mobile), some CSS needs to be added to common.css if possible, @Ran?

blockquote.templatequote { display:table; margin:1em 0; padding:0; position:relative; }
blockquote.templatequote:before, blockquote.templatequote:after { position:absolute; top:0; height:1em; color:#DDDDDD; font:normal bold 3.5em 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; line-height:0.75em; }
blockquote.templatequote:before { left:0; content:open-quote; }
blockquote.templatequote:after { right:0; content:close-quote; }
blockquote.templatequote p { display:block; margin:0 3em 0 2.5em; text-align:justify; font-style:italic; }
blockquote.templatequote p i { font-style:normal; }
div.templatequotecite { text-align:left; margin:0.5em 2.5em; }
div.templatequotecite cite { font-style:normal; }

@Rhaenys_Targaryen: What do you in particular think of the 3rd marriage lines? Look good to you, or not quite what you were hoping for? I can also add dashed line variants... running short of letters to use as codes, but if I re-purpose the "misc" ones that nobody uses, I should be good. :) 

They look very good! Much better than the options/solutions we had thusfar! :D This will allow us to display up to four marriages within one family tree template at the same time, right?

I am not very familiar with CSS codes necessary to increase the possibilities in template, but perhaps you know this. Do you think it is possible to add a note box within a family tree template (like, for example, this family tree on wikipedia (ignoring that they use it to display references, :) ))? We don't use notes in family trees often, but the few times that we do, the Notes template now needs to be added to the page to display everything properly, and by having the option of having a note box within the family tree templates (which lists only the notes from within the family tree) would circumvent that.

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Quotes involving more than one <br> break aren't displaying correctly (in my Chrome Portable), with the final line lacking italics and not being aligned with the preceding lines. Examples include Moqorro & Tyrion speaking in the "Euron Greyjoy" article and Balon & Theon speaking in the "Balon Greyjoy" article. The ''Davos Seaworth" article has examples with Melisandre & Davos, Jared & Davos, and Cersei's small council.

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1 hour ago, Nittanian said:

Quotes involving more than one <br> break aren't displaying correctly (in my Chrome Portable), with the final line lacking italics and not being aligned with the preceding lines. Examples include Moqorro & Tyrion speaking in the "Euron Greyjoy" article and Balon & Theon speaking in the "Balon Greyjoy" article. The ''Davos Seaworth" article has examples with Melisandre & Davos, Jared & Davos, and Cersei's small council.

That is a weird error, somehow the extra breaks in those conversational quotes are killing the paragraph tags. Well, the real fix is to remove the line breaks and just use <br> tags alone (so that the wikitext looks like text<br>text), which we should be doing as we adjust the sources for all the quotes anyway. But since that will take a while to find them all, I've set a div to contain the text to handle those exceptions. It'll need a small CSS change, though.

@Ran, if you can, could you adjust that common.css again?

blockquote.templatequote { display:table; margin:1em 0; padding:0; position:relative; }
blockquote.templatequote:before, blockquote.templatequote:after { position:absolute; top:0; height:1em; color:#DDDDDD; font:normal bold 3.5em 'Times New Roman',Times,serif; line-height:0.75em; }
blockquote.templatequote:before { left:0; content:open-quote; }
blockquote.templatequote:after { right:0; content:close-quote; }
blockquote.templatequote p { margin:0; }
blockquote.templatequote p i { font-style:normal; }
div.templatequotetext {  margin:0 3em 0 2.5em; text-align:justify; font-style:italic; }
div.templatequotecite { text-align:left; margin:0.5em 2.5em; }
div.templatequotecite cite { font-style:normal; }

Also I think that may need to be added to mobile.css too -- I thought common.css was enough, but apparently not, and the quotes in mobile do look pretty good, but not the same.

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