The ASOIAF wiki thread

[zionius]

On the wiki pages for Yellow Dick and Rowan, it says Rowan killed Yellow Dick without citation. Isn't that an unconfirmed theory?

[Nittanian]

1 hour ago, zionius said:

On the wiki pages for Yellow Dick and Rowan, it says Rowan killed Yellow Dick without citation. Isn't that an unconfirmed theory?

It seems that YD was killed by one of the spearwives, but I don't think we know which woman. While Rowan adamantly denies they are to blame for killing Little Walder, Theon is skeptical of their denials they killed the other men (She would never believe his denials, any more than he believed hers.).

Quote

Holly smiled. In her hand a blade appeared.

I could scream, Theon thought. Someone will hear. The castle is full of armed men. He would be dead before help reached him, to be sure, his blood soaking into the ground to feed the heart tree. And what would be so wrong with that? "Touch me," he said. "Kill me." There was more despair than defiance in his voice. "Go on. Do me, the way you did the others. Yellow Dick and the rest. It was you."

Holly laughed. "How could it be us? We're women. Teats and cunnies. Here to be fucked, not feared."

"Did the Bastard hurt you?" Rowan asked. "Chopped off your fingers, did he? Skinned your widdle toes? Knocked your teeth out? Poor lad." She patted his cheek. "There will be no more o' that, I promise. You prayed, and the gods sent us. You want to die as Theon? We'll give you that. A nice quick death, 'twill hardly hurt at all." She smiled. "But not till you've sung for Abel. He's waiting for you." (ADWD A Ghost in Winterfell)

 

Quote

Rowan gave him a hard look. "You have no right to mouth Lord Eddard's words. Not you. Not ever. After what you did—"

"You killed a boy as well."

"That was not us. I told you."

"Words are wind." They are no better than me. We're just the same. "You killed the others, why not him? Yellow Dick—"

"—stank as bad as you. A pig of a man."

"And Little Walder was a piglet. Killing him brought the Freys and Manderlys to dagger points, that was cunning, you—"

"Not us." Rowan grabbed him by the throat and shoved him back against the barracks wall, her face an inch from his. "Say it again and I will rip your lying tongue out, kinslayer." (ADWD Theon I)

 

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

The page of Aemon Targaryen (son of Maekar I) currently has a section "Chapters appearing or mentioned". I personally find the section  a bit redundant. The infobox already lists in which books the characters appears or is mentioned, and the recent events section lists all important chapters in which the character appears or is mentioned. To list the chapters separately on the same page seems a bit repetitive. Any other opinions on this?

[The Wondering Wolf]

I agree, it should be removed. I think adding such a section should have been discussed before doing it anyway.

[Nittanian]

I concur as well. Similar info was added to Jon Snow and Maekar I Targaryen. 

[The Wondering Wolf]

Something else:

I think the file pages of FFG images need to be revised. Here is an example. " Posted in the "Card Guide Wiki" under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike License" is true, but that does not mean it is right as well. These images are copyrighted and must not be used under CCA for sure, so that needs to be removed. Furthermore, "The original picture can be found on" often leads to a website (of the artist or of FFG) where the original picture can not be found. In this cases the sentence needs to be removed as well.

I know that would be a lot of work, but at least the copyright situation needs to be set right.

[Ran]

They can indeed be used on a CCA site, but those images are not themselves CCA, as noted. The permission for their use is exclusively on the site. If someone wanted to copy the wiki, they would need to secure permission to use all copyrighted images in any articles they copy, or remove them.

Wikipedia has different rules, but those are just their rules with their goal of being a portable and shareable as possible. We're not interested.

 

ETA: Oh, I see what you mean. Yes, they are not Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike Licensed. They can be used on the wiki, but misattributing them as being CCA would suggest that anyone can now use them wherever, which is not the case. People will have to get permission for each image anew if they mean to use them somewhere other than the wiki.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Switzeran

[zionius]

On TWOIAF Errata page:

The Targaryen Kings: The date of the announcement of the Tourney at Harrenhal is now known to be 280 AC.

The Riverlands & The Iron Islands: In The Iron Islands: Driftwood Crows, the sentence "The kings who followed Qhored played a part in that, yet the men of the green lands were likewise growing stronger. The First Men were building longships of their own" should change to "They/Rivermen were building longships of their own".

The Westerlands: "Ellyn Reyne, now Lady Tarbeck, departed Casterly Rock with her husband, never to return". It seems she returned at least once (at a feast where Genna's betrothal was announced), according to AFFC Jaime III(Chap.33)

The Reach: Some editions have removed House Parren from this section, which is restored in the latest edition.

 

On The Main Series Errata:

ASOS: "Also in Arya VII, Arya Stark thinks that she killed a boy when she was eight years old." Should be in Arya VIII.

Edited June 25, 2018 by zionius

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

4 hours ago, zionius said:

The Riverlands & The Iron Islands: In The Iron Islands: Driftwood Crows, the sentence "The kings who followed Qhored played a part in that, yet the men of the green lands were likewise growing stronger. The First Men were building longships of their own" should change to "They/Rivermen were building longships of their own".

Do we have a source for this one?

Thanks for the others! Will add them!

[zionius]

39 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Do we have a source for this one?

I just followed the suggested approach by Ran in this thread, to move Qhored Hoare after the Andal invasion. 

Not yet a confirmed error , but once you accept the three fixes proposed by Ran, this tiny fix naturally follows.

 

Edited June 25, 2018 by zionius

[Ckram]

The Titan on Braavos map in TLOIAF is depict holding spear and shield, not a broken sword.

In his website, Jonathan Roberts even discribes the illustration like "we see his back, with spear and shield, guarding the bay". 

Can someone please add this to TLOIAF errata entry? Thanks in advance.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Ckram

[Kandrax]

In this two entries in Eratta

In Chapter 59, Catelyn IX, it is said that Catelyn is welcomed by Lord Walder Freyin his hall while he is surrounded by "twenty living sons (minus Ser Perwyn, who would have made twenty-one), thirty-six grandsons, nineteen great-grandsons, and numerous daughters, granddaughters, bastards, and grandbastards".[28] While Walder Frey indeed has twenty-one sons,[N 1] he has thirty-one trueborn grandsons[N 2] and seventeen trueborn great-grandsons[N 3] at the time.[N 4] Furthermore, the listing from the Appendix from A Clash of Kings makes it likely that not all of them are present at the Twins. Although the locations of each of these characters at the time of Catelyn IX are not confirmed, by the start of A Clash of Kingsthey are the following: listed as serving as a page are Willem Frey (at Ashemark), Emmon's son Walder (at Casterly Rock),Robert Brax (at Casterly Rock), and Wendel Frey (at Seagard); Further listed as being away from the Twins are Zachery Frey, being trained at the Sept of Oldtown,Luceon, in service as a septon at the Great Sept of Baelor in King's Landing, Robert Frey, in training at the Citadel in Oldtown,Willamen, in service as a maester atLongbow Hall, Bradamar Frey, being fostered in Braavos, and Malwyn Frey, being apprenticed to an alchemist in Lys. Additionally, Walder's son Geremy is said to have drowned, while Aenys's son Aegonis identified as an outlaw.[29] 

Here replace this:

Emmon's son Walder (at Casterly Rock),

With:

Emmon and his sons and grandsons (at Casterly Rock).

In Note1 replace Geremy with Elmar

Add after this:

While Walder Frey indeed has twenty-one sons,

This:

After Geremy's death,

Cut this:

Additionally, Walder's son Geremy is said to have drowned

Replace number of grandsons from 31 to 29( I guess at the time means during that chapter)

 

2)Ser Ryman Frey refers to his grandfather, Lord Walder Frey, as his father when Robb Stark arrives at the Twins for Edmure Tully's wedding.[63] However, this might not necessarily be a mistake, as Robb refers to Walder as Ryman's father as well,[63] while Ser Walder Rivers, Walder's bastard son, refers to him as his "father" (correctly) and "grandfather" (incorrectly) in the same conversation.

Add this:

There is also a posibility, given the fact that Ryman's father is death, this was hidden threat to Robb.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Kandrax

[zionius]

Shall we have an entry for rock goblins?

Quote

Grumkins and snarks, ghosts and ghouls, mermaids, rock goblins, winged horses, winged pigs … winged lions.” -ADWD Tyrion III

That's the only appearance in current materials, though in the draft of this chapter we got a little more:

Quote

Tyrion hears stories of rock goblins and giants warring. The goblins won but were seduced by swan maidens from the lakes and were made thralls. The Andals then rose up and killed them all.

Like the Swan Maiden (which we later learn in TWOIAF), they should also be from Pentoshi legend.

Edited July 11, 2018 by zionius

[zionius]

I think Septa Helicent and Melicent are the same person. 

Melicent is only mentioned in AFFC Cersei X:

Quote

Septa Aglantine and Septa Melicent will say the same, as will Queen Margaery’s own septa, Nysterica, who has been confined to a penitent’s cell for her part in the queen’s shame.

She isn't included in the appendix. However, a Septa Helicent never mentioned in the whole series appeared in the appendix beside Septa Aglantine:

Quote

SEPTON TORBERT, SEPTON RAYNARD, SEPTON LUCEON, SEPTON OLLIDOR, of the Most Devout, serving the Seven at the Great Sept of Baelor,

SEPTA MOELLE, SEPTA AGLANTINE, SEPTA HELICENT, SEPTA UNELLA, of the Most Devout, serving the Seven at the Great Sept of Baelor,

 

Moreover, I think the four septas lised here are NOT of the Most Devout. The Most Devout ranks highest in the Faith, but these septas look more like common septas and gaolers. I believe the appendix of AFFC is in error, otherwise why should it wrote in two lines instead of the much simpler "SEPTON TORBERT, SEPTON RAYNARD, SEPTON LUCEON, SEPTON OLLIDOR, SEPTA MOELLE, SEPTA AGLANTINE, SEPTA HELICENT, SEPTA UNELLA, of the Most Devout, serving the Seven at the Great Sept of Baelor"? In fact, the appendix of ADWD is different, which I think gives the correct info:

Quote

SEPTA UNELLA, SEPTA MOELLE, SEPTA SCOLERA, the queen’s gaolers,
SEPTON TORBERT, SEPTON RAYNARD, SEPTON LUCEON, SEPTON OLLIDOR, of the Most Devout,
SEPTA AGLANTINE, SEPTA HELICENT, serving the Seven at the Great Sept of Baelor,

 

Lastly, shall we call her Helicent or Melicent? I'm inclined to Helicent because: 

1. Helicent is a common name that appears eight times elsewhere. Melicent appears only once in the whole series.

2. It seems GRRM deliberately corrected the identity of four septas when preparing the appendix of ADWD, stopping calling them the Most Devout. He would have noticed "Helicent" then and decided to stick to that version.

Edited August 2, 2018 by zionius

[Ran]

That's a good find, zionious. I'm passing it on to Anne Groell for correction in future editions of AFfC.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

5 hours ago, Ran said:

That's a good find, zionious. I'm passing it on to Anne Groell for correction in future editions of AFfC.

So to confirm, Melicent should be Helicent and Moelle, Unella, Helicent and Aglantine are not part of the Most Devout?

[Ran]

 Melicent = Helicient for sure. Pretty certain Zionious is right that the AFfC appendix entry was incorrect ascribing being in the Most Devout, but in any case flagging it for Anne and George's attention.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

17 hours ago, Ran said:

 Melicent = Helicient for sure. Pretty certain Zionious is right that the AFfC appendix entry was incorrect ascribing being in the Most Devout, but in any case flagging it for Anne and George's attention.

If these four septas are not of the Most Devout, only male members of the Most Devout are known to us. Would you by any chance happen to know if a septa can be part of the Most Devout?

[Ran]

1 hour ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

If these four septas are not of the Most Devout, only male members of the Most Devout are known to us. Would you by any chance happen to know if a septa can be part of the Most Devout?

I'm inclined to think that the lack of evidence for them, other than the AFfC appendix which seems to have been corrected in ADwD, means no. And it makes sense, in that the Faith is fairly misogynistic, and allowing women to be at the step just below High Septon may be a step too far. That said, that is just my take on it, and I've no direct knowledge on the subject from George as we've never really discussed it. The only thing that made it seem plausible was George indicating that septas were female priests rather than just using the term nun for them.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Ran

[zionius]

Found another likely error in AFFC appendix, which says Alester Florent was made the Hand before Blackwater.

Quote

At the outset of the War of the Five Kings, Lord Alester Florent followed his liege lord in declaring for King Renly while his brother Ser Axell chose Stannis, husband to his niece Selyse. After Renly’s death, Lord Alester went over to Stannis as well, with all the strength of Brightwater. Stannis made Lord Alester his Hand, and gave command of his fleet to Ser Imry Florent, his wife’s brother.

However, it's stated he's a self-styled Hand after Blackwater. Later maybe Stannis granted him the title.

Quote

 

“Some few,” the captain said. “The queen’s kin, them in chief. We took off many who wore the fox-and-flowers, though many more were left ashore, with all manner of badges. Lord Florent is the King’s Hand on Dragonstone NOW.”

Since the battle, he sees no one, but broods in his Stone Drum. Queen Selyse keeps court for him with her uncle the Lord Alester, who is naming himself the Hand. The king’s seal she has given to this uncle, to fix to the letters he writes, even to my pretty parchment. -ASOS Davos II

 

This raised another question: who was the Hand before Alester? Likely he's a Lord/Lord's brother who died/yielded in Blackwater. My bet is on Monford Velaryon. Could also be Bryce Caron or Imry Florent, though much less likely.