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On 2/13/2019 at 10:41 PM, Gonzalo said:

I think the "Members of the small council" infobox has become too cumbersome - and will invariably become even more when F&B II comes out - so maybe the spot for each king should also become collapsible.

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On 2/17/2019 at 10:59 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

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Looks good to me!

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On 2/17/2019 at 4:59 AM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

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Excellent! My only two nitpicks are: 

* The "Valarr, the Hand..." note should be limited to the Daeron II subsection

* The font for the title of each subsection maybe should be smaller

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3 hours ago, Gonzalo said:

Excellent! My only two nitpicks are: 

* The "Valarr, the Hand..." note should be limited to the Daeron II subsection

* The font for the title of each subsection maybe should be smaller

I'm not sure if the first one is possible,  but I'll take a look!

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On 2/15/2019 at 6:02 PM, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

Hmm, I can see both sides. It would seem unnecessary for small trees like Qoren's, but could be useful for larger trees like Daemon Targaryen.

Separately, should "drowned men" refer generally to the acolytes of the Drowned God's priests, or just to the Damphair's followers? AFFC and ADWD have only mentioned them in relation to Aeron, but IIRC he is also the only priest we've met in ASOIAF. TWOIAF mentions Maester Kirth's collection of ironborn legends, Songs the Drowned Men Sing.

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7 hours ago, Nittanian said:

Separately, should "drowned men" refer generally to the acolytes of the Drowned God's priests, or just to the Damphair's followers? AFFC and ADWD have only mentioned them in relation to Aeron, but IIRC he is also the only priest we've met in ASOIAF. TWOIAF mentions Maester Kirth's collection of ironborn legends, Songs the Drowned Men Sing.

Until confirmation that it refers to the acolytes or priest, I suggest keep it as the text currently says, and that is using the term in reference to Aeron's men (even though he is the only priest we have seen).

As to Kirth's book, it is imo not clear who he is referring to. Acolytes and priests? Or the ironborn in general, who are all "drowned men" in a way, as they all get drowned (whether properly or not) when still young:

Only  then  did  the priest  turn  to  the  three riders,  watching  from  their  saddles.  “Have  you  come to be  drowned,  my  lords?”

The  Sparr  coughed.  “I  was  drowned as  a  boy,”  he  said,  “and  my  son  upon  his  name  day.”   

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Hi everyone,

 

Earlier this month @Gonzalo added the option "issue" to the character infoboxes. I desire to do the same with an option called “betrothed” for betrothals. I started to do it when @Rhaenys_Targaryen pointed out to me I should ask you opinions first. If my felow editors don’t approve, I’ll delete the edits I already did (sorry for not thinking of asking first).

Obviously, I intend to only edit the official betrothals in the character infoboxes, not the ones mentioned as a possibility.

For example, Brandon Stark & Catelyn Tully, Daryn Hornwood & Alys Karstark or Beric Dondarrion & Allyria Dayne are official betrothals unlike Brynden Tully & Bethany Redwyne or Daven Lannister & Desmera Redwyne.

I don't know if pointed out the betrothals that successfully turned into a marriage is really necessary. However, those which didn't succed for a reason or an other (one of the betrothed died prematurely, the betrothal is annulled, ...) could be interesting.

Examples: Joffrey Baratheon & Sansa Stark, Viserys Targaryen & Arianne Martell, Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Stark, Theomore Manderly & Viserra Targaryen, ...

 

So what do you think?

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There seems to be an inconsistency in the banner of the Stormcrows.

In A Storm of Swords Daenerys IV, their banner is described as "four crows between crossed thunderbolts" while in The Winds of Winter Barristan, it is "a dozen ragged black streamers on a tall staff, topped by a carved wooden crow".

Is there a reason for this?

Edited by Abjiklam

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22 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

Hi everyone,

 

Earlier this month @Gonzalo added the option "issue" to the character infoboxes. I desire to do the same with an option called “betrothed” for betrothals. I started to do it when @Rhaenys_Targaryen pointed out to me I should ask you opinions first. If my felow editors don’t approve, I’ll delete the edits I already did (sorry for not thinking of asking first).

Obviously, I intend to only edit the official betrothals in the character infoboxes, not the ones mentioned as a possibility.

For example, Brandon Stark & Catelyn Tully, Daryn Hornwood & Alys Karstark or Beric Dondarrion & Allyria Dayne are official betrothals unlike Brynden Tully & Bethany Redwyne or Daven Lannister & Desmera Redwyne.

I don't know if pointed out the betrothals that successfully turned into a marriage is really necessary. However, those which didn't succed for a reason or an other (one of the betrothed died prematurely, the betrothal is annulled, ...) could be interesting.

Examples: Joffrey Baratheon & Sansa Stark, Viserys Targaryen & Arianne Martell, Robert Baratheon & Lyanna Stark, Theomore Manderly & Viserra Targaryen, ...

 

So what do you think?

The infoboxes should give a quick, clear view of a character, hence their name, titles, aliases, spouses, children, years of birth and death, etc.

But personally, I would argue for leaving the betrothals out of the infoboxes. If we put too much in the infoboxes, they become too full and lose their purpose of giving a quick overview. Although betrothals can be an important part of a character's story arc, overall, who a person once planned to wed is not as important as who they eventually did marry (and the children that came forth from such a union).

But that's my opinion. I am very curious to hear the opinion of others! 

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8 hours ago, Abjiklam said:

There seems to be an inconsistency in the banner of the Stormcrows.

In A Storm of Swords Daenerys IV, their banner is described as "four crows between crossed thunderbolts" while in The Winds of Winter Barristan, it is "a dozen ragged black streamers on a tall staff, topped by a carved wooden crow".

Is there a reason for this?

No idea for the reason, but as the contents of the sample chapters from Winds can still change, we should go with the ASOS description as canon. We could, however, add a footnote mentioning the description given in Barristan's Winds of Winter chapter, so as to be as complete as possible.

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15 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The infoboxes should give a quick, clear view of a character, hence their name, titles, aliases, spouses, children, years of birth and death, etc.

But personally, I would argue for leaving the betrothals out of the infoboxes. If we put too much in the infoboxes, they become too full and lose their purpose of giving a quick overview. Although betrothals can be an important part of a character's story arc, overall, who a person once planned to wed is not as important as who they eventually did marry (and the children that came forth from such a union).

That makes sense to me as well. 

Regarding the Stormcrows, they might have multiple imagery, like Stannis using both the fiery heart and the standard Baratheon stag during the battle beneath the Wall. 

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21 hours ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The infoboxes should give a quick, clear view of a character, hence their name, titles, aliases, spouses, children, years of birth and death, etc.

But personally, I would argue for leaving the betrothals out of the infoboxes. If we put too much in the infoboxes, they become too full and lose their purpose of giving a quick overview. Although betrothals can be an important part of a character's story arc, overall, who a person once planned to wed is not as important as who they eventually did marry (and the children that came forth from such a union).

But that's my opinion. I am very curious to hear the opinion of others! 

I agree with Rhaenys. I would add that character infoboxes and the like should also have a smaller font so as to take less space from the articles

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18 hours ago, Gonzalo said:

I would add that character infoboxes and the like should also have a smaller font so as to take less space from the articles

I agree. This may be a good time for me to say that I have a responsive deisgn for infoboxes. If you copy the content of this page into your custom CSS page, you can have a look at Template:Infobox house/testcases and Template:Infobox house/doc and give me some feedback. I encourage you to look at it both on desktop and mobile.

If the community likes this, we can ask @Ran to implement the changes, or there's a way for regular users to do it if Extension:TemplateStyles is installed on the wiki.

Edited by Abjiklam
extra link

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Posted (edited)

@Ran

I'm checking the oldest Heraldry descriptions on the Citadel with the current ones, and find a probable error.

House Follard is now described as "Gyronny of twelve red and white; in a gold canton, a two-peaked fool's cap of red and white with sil" while in the old version, it's "Gyronny of twelve red and white; in a gold canton, a two-peaked fool's cap of red and white with silver balls"

The wiki pages of House Follard should be updated accordingly. And the current House Follard heraldry image on the wiki might need an update on the ball color too.

 

Also, the "List of Other Arms" pages in the Citadel are down now. https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Heraldry/Other/1/https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Heraldry/Other/2, https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Heraldry/Other/3

Edited by zionius

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15 hours ago, zionius said:

in the old version, it's "Gyronny of twelve red and white; in a gold canton, a two-peaked fool's cap of red and white with silver balls"

Silver balls or silver bells? The current version says bells.

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10 hours ago, Abjiklam said:

Silver balls or silver bells? The current version says bells.

bells, I made a typo, sorry.

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Did Lord Beron Stark died in 212 AC ?

Hi everyone, I'm currently working on calculating the years of births and deaths for the members of House Stark. If I could confirmed Beron's death in 212 AC, it would give me more information to work on.

In The Mystery Knight (which takes place in 212 AC), Beron is said to gather swords to fight the Ironborn. But when Dunk and Egg will arrive in Winterfell at the beginning of D&E 4, Beron will be dying from a mortally wound he took fighting the Ironborn. I don't know how much time Dunk and Egg will take to go from Whitewalls to Winterfell but I'm guessing they will probably arrive in late 212 AC and witness Beron's death and burial.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

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