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AFFC Jaime II

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"Gyles Greycloak? Orivel the Open-Handed?"

"Gyles was a traitor, Orivel a coward. Men who shamed the white cloak."

FAB Aftermath - The Hour of the Wolf

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Ser Gyles Belgrave was also put down for death; if he had not put the poison in the king's wine himself, he had allowed it to happen through carelessness or willful blindness. "No knight of the Kingsguard should outlive his king when that king dies by violence," Stark declared.

@Ran, would it be safe to assume these are the same individuals so we can merge "Gyles" and "Gyles Belgrave"?

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On 7/24/2019 at 5:18 PM, Nittanian said:

AFFC Jaime II

FAB Aftermath - The Hour of the Wolf

@Ran, would it be safe to assume these are the same individuals so we can merge "Gyles" and "Gyles Belgrave"?

Gyldayn writes:

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Maesters and common men alike still debate which poison was used, and who might have put it in the king’s wine. (Some argue that only Ser
Gyles himself could have done so, but it would be unthinkable for a knight of the Kingsguard to take the life of the king he had sworn to protect. Ummet, the king’s food taster whose murder Mushroom claims to have seen, seems a more likely candidate.)

Since history does not seem to remember Gyles Belgrave as traitor and he is not called Greycloak in the text, I would not merge the articles.

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Yes, while I find it very likely they are one and the same, I don't think we have enough evidence to say it is certain.

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Would it make sense to mention each on the other's page? Something like:

"Ser Gyles, better known as Gyles Greycloak, was a member of the Kingsguard. It is possible he was the same person as Ser Gyles Belgrave."

"Ser Gyles Belgrave was a knight from House Belgrave and a member of Aegon II Targaryen's Kingsguard. It is possible he was the same person as the Kingsguard knight called Gyles Greycloak."

 

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It would make sense to raise the possibility, I think.

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37 minutes ago, Rhaenys_Targaryen said:

The wiki page on Quenton Corbray states that Corwyn Corbray was a second son. Where is this stated?

"Under the Regents - The Hooded Hand", when Rhaena's future is discussed. 

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Ser Corwyn was far from an ideal choice. A second son, he had two daughters from a previous marriage. At thirty-two, he was a man, not a green boy. Yet House Corbray was ancient and honorable, Ser Corwyn a knight of such repute that his late father had given him Lady Forlorn, the Valyrian steel blade of the Corbrays.

 

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Posted (edited)

Where does it say Manfryd Redwyne died in 89 AC? The wiki says in Heirs of the Dragon, but I can't find it, only that Sea Snake somehow was already master of ships in 90 AC.

Never mind, find it.

Edited by zionius

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3 hours ago, The Wondering Wolf said:

The wiki page of Aenys I Targaryen states that according to the app, the marriage of him and Alyssa Velaryon was a political match. But the app does not seem to make such claim. 

I know that it used to state that. But if it is no longer there in the app, the statement should be removed from the wiki as well.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

I'm no gamer and I did not play to neither the Game of Thrones RPG nor the Blood of Dragons Mush.

I apologise for my ignorance, I'm a bit confused, why does wiki pages exist for characters from the former but not the latter ? What's the difference ?

Especially since some characters from BoD are part of the canon.

IIRC, Ran stated MUSH is not considered cannon and should not be used on the wiki.

However, I guess we can use info of the canonical characters on the MUSH as pseudo-canon sources, which can be found by entering "+cdb/search type/feature" in the MUSH: (Note: the ladies use their hunsbands' surnames)

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Mariah Nymeros Martell (1778), Maron Nymeros Martell (1777), Kermit Tully (52), Gawen Swann (59), Ellyn Blackwood (64), Oscar Tully (93), Brandon Stark (218), Cregan Stark (221), Arra Stark (222), Rickon Stark (223), Lynara Stark (224), Jonnel Stark (225), Sansa Stark (226), Senara Stark (227), Alysanne Stark (228), Edric Stark (232), Clement Celtigar (233), Barthogan Stark (236), Samwell Blackwood (260), Benjicot Blackwood (305), Rickon Stark (312), Joseth Smallwood (598), Lyonel Tyrell (628), Leo Tyrell (632), Quenton Corbray (695), Leowyn Corbray (753), Robyn Ryswell (906), Jeyne Stark (926), Loreon Lannister (1016), Clarent Crakehall (1060), Damon Lannister (1079), Tyland Lannister (1081), Jason Lannister (1086), Johanna Lannister (1087), Torrhen Manderly (1322), Desmond Manderly (1323), Medrick Manderly (1324), Olyvar Oakheart (1377), Caston Vaith (1431), Caswald Vaith (1433), Cassella Vaith (1434), Alan Beesbury (1449), Roland Darry (1546), Derrick Darry (1558), Lyonel Hightower (1599), Samantha Hightower (1606), Martyn Hightower (1608), Jon Hightower (1609), Stafford Hightower (1617), Daeron I Targaryen (1619), Baelor Targaryen (1769), Coryanne Nymeros Martell (1787), Melissa Blackwood (1862), Bethany Caswell (1944), Daena Targaryen (1945), Elaena Targaryen (1975), Rhaena Targaryen (1974), Viserys Targaryen (1976), Aegon Targaryen (1977), Aemon Targaryen (1978), Naerys Targaryen (1979), Alyn Velaryon (1980), Daeron Targaryen (1981), Elmo Tully (2008), Megette (2031), Tyshara Peckledon (2487), Manfryd Mooton (2465), Walys Mooton (2464), Qyle Nymeros Martell (2461), Aliandra Nymeros Martell (2460), Gyles Yronwood (2459), Lorent Marbrand (2458), Jorah Mallister (2457), Rosamund Vypren (2454), Mathar Rosby (2438), Robin Massey (2437), Gormon Massey (2436), Steffon Connington (2435), Wyland Wyl (2434), Thaddeus Rowan (2433), Walter Brownhill (2428), Elenda Baratheon (2427), Olyver Baratheon (2426), Floris Rowan (2425), Maris Baratheon (2424), Cassandra Brownhill (2423), Borros Baratheon (2422), Corwyn Corbray (2419), Joffrey Arryn (2412), Barba Bracken (2530), Daemon Waters (2874), Baelor Targaryen (2873), Alora Fell (2569), Willis Fell (2570), Moriah Qorgyle (2850), Michael Manwoody (2747), Gwayne Corbray (2660), Quentyn Ball (2669), and Morgil Hastwyck (2670).

I guess some MUSH info about these canonical characters are likely semi-canon, e.g.:

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Ellyn Baratheon married Benjicot Blackwood.

Alysanne Blackwood's daughter Melissa married Benjicot's son and heir.
Lord Caston Vaith called the Leopard is a rebel against King Daeron I, killed by Qorgyle men-at-arms at 158 AC. His elder son is captured and became a hostage at the Red Keep. While Lord Caston rebel in the field, Castle Vaith was taken. His younger son Caswald denounced the father, and is confirmed as the true Lord Vaith, though he was but a puppet. His younger sister Cassella was yielded as hostage. Then in 160 AC, there was a riot in Vaith, and Caswald was tried and executed for having aided rebel sympathizers.

Stafford Hightower is Lyonel's brother, formerly Commander of the City Watch of Old Town.

The sister who Daeron I planned to marry the Sealord of Braavos is Rhaena.

Coryanne Martell became Princess of Dorne after Aliandra's death. (Her brother Qyle died eariler.)

Whereas others seem like coined by Elio & Linda:

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In F&B Lady Caswell's young sons became captives at Oldtown, the elder son would marry Bethany Hightower and became Lord Caswell later.

Alora Fell is the Lady Fell Aegon II executed, and Mathar Rosby is the Lord Rosby Rhaenyra executed.

For the girls suffered Maiden's Day curse, later, Tyshara Lannister married a Peckledon, Rosamund Darry married a Vypren.

 

Edited by zionius

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Posted (edited)

Even characters who appear in the canon can have information attached to them created only for the game. Without knowing what info is (semi-)canon, and what was created for the game specifically,  we cannot enter the information on the wiki, IMO. 

Edited by Rhaenys_Targaryen

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Yep, we're not going to clarify beyond what's there, and the information shouldn't be used for the wiki at all.

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The wiki page for House Farwyn of Sealskin Point presents it as the main branch of House Farwynd and the Farwynds of the Lonely Light being a cadet branch. Isn't it actually the reverse ?

Fire & Blood told us the origin story for the Farwynds of the Lonely Light:

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Thousands of years before the Conquest, when the Kings of Winter still reigned in the North, Brandon the Shipwright had built an entire fleet of ships to cross the Sunset Sea. He took them west himself, never to return. His son and heir, another Brandon, burned the yards where they were built, and was known as Brandon the Burner forevermore. A thousand years later, ironmen sailing out from Great Wyk were blown off course onto a cluster of rocky islands eight days’ sail to the northwest of any known shore. Their captain built a tower and a beacon there, took the name of Farwynd, and called his seat the Lonely Light. His descendants lived there still, clinging to rocks where seals outnumbered men fifty to one. Even the other ironmen considered the Farwynds mad; some named them selkies.

Fire & Blood, Jaehaerys and Alysanne - Their Triumphs and Tragedies

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5 hours ago, Thomaerys Velaryon said:

The wiki page for House Farwyn of Sealskin Point presents it as the main branch of House Farwynd and the Farwynds of the Lonely Light being a cadet branch. Isn't it actually the reverse ?

I guess so, it seems AFFC says nothing about which Farwyn is the main branch. And GRRM gave the Lonely Light Farwynd his originally envisioned Farwynd sigil back in 2001. It seems to me GRRM retconned the Farwynd story during writing AFFC and moved them to the newly created Lonely Light. But since there was already a "LORD FARWYND of Great Wyk" in ASOS appendix, he had to keep some Farwynds on the Great Wyk too.

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It seems the original direction of KL map (where north is tilted clockwise by 60 degrees) is long abandoned. GRRM definitely used the up direction of KL map as north.

E.g, KL at north bank, Shae's manse at "northeast" corner, Fleabottom at south of Dragonpit, and Cobbler’s Square west of it.

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7 hours ago, zionius said:

It seems the original direction of KL map (where north is tilted clockwise by 60 degrees) is long abandoned. GRRM definitely used the up direction of KL map as north.

E.g, KL at north bank, Shae's manse at "northeast" corner, Fleabottom at south of Dragonpit, and Cobbler’s Square west of it.

I've been wondering the same thing myself while working on creating wiki pages for the streets in King's Landing. The north is not indicated in the KL map from The Lands of Ice and Fire, only in the ACOK map. I used this information to describe the locations of the streets. Should it be changed then ?

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